Big fps drop when there's a lot of particles ?

[Narumanu]

Hello, the game runs alright in high on my rig but I've noticed I get severe fps drops when there's a lot of particles, I think.

It always happens when I hit a ennemy with the Enforcer or when I put a lot of bullets on a boss with the pistol

Anyone knows how to fix that ?

I don't have RT enabled, same for dlss and dynamic resolution, everything else is set on high

Also I've downloaded the newest nvidia driver for my GPU (RTX 3070)

[3 am]

Don't think they can do something

[edumacacion]

Cpu wattage never going over a certain amount is the problem. It should use the full tdp if you have the clock speed set to max and you’re giving it a task to do. I’m using integrated graphics though and I was getting power limit throttled well running the game at a lower clock speed. But seriously just forcing the clock speed to max uses up a ton of wattage the lack of cpu wattage is the problem it should use up more although it depends on your cpu in any case not using the full cpu wattage you have access to can cause degraded performance you’ll use significantly more wattage with speedstep turned off

if you have an intel cpu there's a way to fix it. open a program called throttlestop and disable speedstep and c1e. ratchet and clank uses a lot of power when enemies or effects are on screen and what ends up happening is you end up getting power limit throttling. to fix this you need to disable speedstep. it also helps to disable c1e as that also reduces cpu clocks.

[mrtnptrs]

edumacacion a écrit :

Cpu wattage never go over a certain amount is the problem. It should use the full tdp if you have the clock speed set to max and you’re giving it a task to do. I’m using integrated graphics though and I was getting power limit throttled well running the game at a lower clock speed. But seriously just forcing the clock speed to max uses up a ton of wattage the lack of cpu wattage is the problem it should use up more although it depends on your cpu in any case that using the full cpu wattage you have access to can cause degraded performance you’ll use significantly more wattage with speedstep turned off

That is not how it works honestly; your CPU has limited TDP. Just increasing clock speeds is not gonna change this TDP. If you increase clock speeds significantly/to the max, the electricity usage will likely increase in a less efficient manner, thus much more heat will be generated. This is likely thus causing your CPU to start to underclock before it reaches TDP to avoid overheating of the cores. This is completely normal behavior you are experiencing, especially when you descide to overclock your CPU and disable hardware features that normally keep the CPU in check (speedstep).

[edumacacion]

Okay I’m not thermal throttling. I have a 28 watt tdp. Some chipsets power limit throttling can be fixed when using the generic intel chipset by turning off speedstep and c1e using a program called throttlestop. You can’t solve everything with a good gpu the cpu is needed occasionally. And before you start with this is unknowable because I haven’t tested on every configuration imaginable by doing this when lots of enemies and effects were on screen I no longer get framerate dips sometimes things get moved from ram to the page file after an hour of play but performance eventually improves. It seems to be the issue people are having. Windows uses the manufacturers drivers unlike Linux where the drivers are made by the operating system so while it may be operating specific this may very be the cause in any case Linux saps performance on anything other than amd gpus. I like Linux but if they want to be mainstream they need to force intel and nvidia to offer better Vulkan support or get other manufacturers besides amd to offer better driver support for their gpus and igpus

if you have an intel cpu there's a way to fix it. open a program called throttlestop and disable speedstep and c1e. ratchet and clank uses a lot of power when enemies or effects are on screen and what ends up happening is you end up getting power limit throttling. to fix this you need to disable speedstep. it also helps to disable c1e as that also prevents the reduction of cpu clocks.

mrtnptrs a écrit :

edumacacion a écrit :

Cpu wattage never go over a certain amount is the problem. It should use the full tdp if you have the clock speed set to max and you’re giving it a task to do. I’m using integrated graphics though and I was getting power limit throttled well running the game at a lower clock speed. But seriously just forcing the clock speed to max uses up a ton of wattage the lack of cpu wattage is the problem it should use up more although it depends on your cpu in any case that using the full cpu wattage you have access to can cause degraded performance you’ll use significantly more wattage with speedstep turned off

That is not how it works honestly; your CPU has limited TDP. Just increasing clock speeds is not gonna change this TDP. If you increase clock speeds significantly/to the max, the electricity usage will likely increase in a less efficient manner, thus much more heat will be generated. This is likely thus causing your CPU to start to underclock before it reaches TDP to avoid overheating of the cores. This is completely normal behavior you are experiencing, especially when you descide to overclock your CPU and disable hardware features that normally keep the CPU in check (speedstep).

[Enhanced_Interrogator]

Melody 💔 a écrit :

There's no power throttle problem and this is most likely not caused by developers. Try the game on Linux with the same settings and blacklist DirectStorage modules, you'll get the same framerate and it will never drop.

Nvidia patched the DirectStorage issue.

You've been saying Linux fixes the frame drops in general. But the frame drops are pretty clearly caused by running out of VRAM (hence why people get better frames when they reduce texture quality).

How does Linux cause the game to use less VRAM? Just doesn't make sense

[Ichika]

Enhanced_Interrogator a écrit :

Melody 💔 a écrit :

There's no power throttle problem and this is most likely not caused by developers. Try the game on Linux with the same settings and blacklist DirectStorage modules, you'll get the same framerate and it will never drop.

Nvidia patched the DirectStorage issue.

You've been saying Linux fixes the frame drops in general. But the frame drops are pretty clearly caused by running out of VRAM (hence why people get better frames when they reduce texture quality).

How does Linux cause the game to use less VRAM? Just doesn't make sense

because it's not VRAM the issue we talking about, if you shoot any metallic surface or enemies GPU usage drops and so does frames, VRAM usage does not change one byte, this is the only instance where i get frame drops and it's only on windows, linux doesn't have said issue, without this my game runs mostly around 80-100 FPS

[mrtnptrs]

Ichika a écrit :

Enhanced_Interrogator a écrit :

Nvidia patched the DirectStorage issue.

You've been saying Linux fixes the frame drops in general. But the frame drops are pretty clearly caused by running out of VRAM (hence why people get better frames when they reduce texture quality).

How does Linux cause the game to use less VRAM? Just doesn't make sense

because it's not VRAM the issue we talking about, if you shoot any metallic surface or enemies GPU usage drops and so does frames, VRAM usage does not change one byte, this is the only instance where i get frame drops and it's only on windows, linux doesn't have said issue, without this my game runs mostly around 80-100 FPS

To my knowledge, this only seems to happen on resource-limited systems...

[mrtnptrs]

edumacacion a écrit :

Okay I’m not thermal throttling. I have a 28 watt tdp. Some chipsets power limit throttling can be fixed when using the generic intel chipset by turning off speedstep and c1e using a program called throttlestop. You can’t solve everything with a good gpu the cpu is needed occasionally. And before you start with this is unknowable because I haven’t tested on every configuration imaginable by doing this when lots of enemies and effects were on screen I no longer get framerate dips sometimes things get moved from ram to the page file after an hour of play but performance eventually improves. It seems to be the issue people are having. Windows uses the manufacturers drivers unlike Linux where the drivers are made by the operating system so while it may be operating specific this may very be the cause in any case Linux saps performance on anything other than amd gpus. I like Linux but if they want to be mainstream they need to force intel and nvidia to offer better Vulkan support or get other manufacturers besides amd to offer better driver support for their gpus and igpus

if you have an intel cpu there's a way to fix it. open a program called throttlestop and disable speedstep and c1e. ratchet and clank uses a lot of power when enemies or effects are on screen and what ends up happening is you end up getting power limit throttling. to fix this you need to disable speedstep. it also helps to disable c1e as that also prevents the reduction of cpu clocks.

mrtnptrs a écrit :

That is not how it works honestly; your CPU has limited TDP. Just increasing clock speeds is not gonna change this TDP. If you increase clock speeds significantly/to the max, the electricity usage will likely increase in a less efficient manner, thus much more heat will be generated. This is likely thus causing your CPU to start to underclock before it reaches TDP to avoid overheating of the cores. This is completely normal behavior you are experiencing, especially when you descide to overclock your CPU and disable hardware features that normally keep the CPU in check (speedstep).

Laptops can have exceptionally poor cooling, even at lower TDP. So, did you literally test and look at core clock and thermal data with something like RTSS tot literally confirm no thermal throttling is occuring or how do you test it?

And again, my personal advice/opinion to everyone is to not follow his well-meant steps as it forces the CPU to do things it wasn't designed for by the laptop manufacture and could potentially increase risk of failure.

[rannielpm]

Melody 💔 a écrit :

There's no power throttle problem and this is most likely not caused by developers. Try the game on Linux with the same settings and blacklist DirectStorage modules, you'll get the same framerate and it will never drop.

When you're playing on linux, do you use vulkan?

[mrtnptrs]

rannielpm a écrit :

Melody 💔 a écrit :

There's no power throttle problem and this is most likely not caused by developers. Try the game on Linux with the same settings and blacklist DirectStorage modules, you'll get the same framerate and it will never drop.

When you're playing on linux, do you use vulkan?

Yes, that is what Wine/Proton translates all Windows D3D and OpenGL calls to; it all gets converted to Vulkan API calls...

[rannielpm]

mrtnptrs a écrit :

Ichika a écrit :

because it's not VRAM the issue we talking about, if you shoot any metallic surface or enemies GPU usage drops and so does frames, VRAM usage does not change one byte, this is the only instance where i get frame drops and it's only on windows, linux doesn't have said issue, without this my game runs mostly around 80-100 FPS

To my knowledge, this only seems to happen on resource-limited systems...

Happens on 4090’s too

[Ichika]

mrtnptrs a écrit :

Ichika a écrit :

because it's not VRAM the issue we talking about, if you shoot any metallic surface or enemies GPU usage drops and so does frames, VRAM usage does not change one byte, this is the only instance where i get frame drops and it's only on windows, linux doesn't have said issue, without this my game runs mostly around 80-100 FPS

To my knowledge, this only seems to happen on resource-limited systems...

how limited we talking about ? because a 3070, 5800x3D and 32gb 3200mhz ram is everything but limited, this is ridiculous, do i have to remark that they lied about the requirements? and that this also happens on every resolution and graphic settings ? DX12 here is the problem and devs should learn that vulkan is the way

[mrtnptrs]

rannielpm a écrit :

mrtnptrs a écrit :

To my knowledge, this only seems to happen on resource-limited systems...

Happens on 4090’s too

Not on my 4090 system though, extensively tested it with full RTSS overlay open. Saw nothing else but normal minor FPS drop when heavy particles appear. Which is normal of course as with a 13700KF my GPU is the limiting factor. Thus generating particles should indeed lower the FPS a bit.

[rannielpm]

The last of Us have a mod that change the api to dxvk and it fixes a lot of stuff including stuttering, maybe it’s hapenning again in this port even if it’s not the same company that port the game

[mrtnptrs]

Ichika a écrit :

mrtnptrs a écrit :

To my knowledge, this only seems to happen on resource-limited systems...

how limited we talking about ? because a 3070, 5800x3D and 32gb 3200mhz ram is everything but limited, this is ridiculous, do i have to remark that they lied about the requirements? and that this also happens on every resolution and graphic settings ? DX12 here is the problem and devs should learn that vulkan is the way

The system requirements seem a bit out of balance yeah. With many settings cranked up a bit though, your 3070 could certainly be easily a limiting factor. DX12 vs Vulkan story is honestly not really true; it all depends how experienced the developers are in using it. For both APIs there exist games with major issues. DX12 has gotten an especially poor reputation because of a subpar implementation of it in Unreal Engine and that many developers, especially in the beginning, had major difficulties working around these limitations that Unreal served them. Plus DX12/Vulkan are more low-level APIs and thus significantly harder to develop for. Nixxes has a good track-record though with good DX12 ports, see some reviews on Digital Foundry.