Ending 2 a little disatisfying?

[Craigrr]

I don't mean this in the sense that I'm upset its an ending where ♥♥♥♥ hits the proverbial fan, but in the sense that the way it happens feels unearned.

Spoilers for ending 2, obviously. What are you, stupid?

While there are options that demonstrate how much of an ass Inco can be, they can be missed and still achieve ending 2. I find this to be an issue because while we do get small moments displaying how vain Inco is they are relatively tame and few and far between. Hell, if you miss them then they are gone, it is optional dialogue. Nothing in the game that isn't completely avoidable shows him in such a state except MAYBE the train scene in the beginning. Something must've been in that sushi cause he just straight speedruns ♥♥♥♥♥ mode at the 11th hour.

Inco's internal monologue for the most part came across as perfectly healthy, especially the parts where he is rationalizing how his life isn't over just because he had a bad first impression. He seemed a perfectly normal amount of selfish and egotistical for his age, and then they disappeared after the first hour. From then on internal monologue Inco is just a normal ass guy. Yes, there are small parts that in hindsight could be red flags, but to be completely lost on the sheer gravity of his potential ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ for the entire game is either a catastrophic error on mine or the game's end. My issue isn't that Inco's decisions were justified by him, I actually respect a lot that he convincingly justifies his thought process. My issue is that I don't believe the way he responds to his surroundings the entire game matches the way he does in this ending.

In Snoot game it made sense that things could end up as bad as they did because from go we immediately saw how much of a piece of ♥♥♥♥ Anon was, and he kept up small elements of this throughout the game through his not so internal dialogue. Also Anon was misgendering his best friend for 99% of the game so it wasnt hard to miss. The process that Anon underwent in these endings to reach the consequences he earned were also entirely believable no matter how you played him to get there. I didn't get that impression in Wani.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea behind this ending. Inco is being nice, not respectful. He inflates Olivia's ego and doesn't do her the respect to let her take responsibility. He is obsessed with everything being perfect for everyone, a lot like Naomi, and grew impatient when he felt that he was putting more effort into such perfection than everyone else. This ♥♥♥♥ was absolutely fire but it wasn't properly built up to in my opinion. It should have spent more time on a gradual decline of Inco's state to that point, or the game should've displayed Inco's potential to be like this better.

Tell me if I'm stupid or missed something, cause I would rather me entirely missed the point then have other people feel the same way.

[Master Sicarius]

I got E2 first, then E4 and 3,from this i can say you can see from the start of the end how inco don't change a bit, at the start of the game you can see how inco just want to be popular and practically he is trying to bought they friendship and give a good impression.
In the E2 you can see this from the start, how he allow to share the blame with Mia to play along with Ben, how he leave Olivia alone in they room when she more need they company and support, because he want to look like a carrying bf who listen at her, and during the sushi part he try to show off teaching the others how to eat the sushi, after all, he only is trying to gave a good impression, look like he just want to look like a good guy and don't care much how the others feels.
I feel like this was how the thing would goes if Anon and Fang would end togheter in E2, a relationship where no one care for how the other really feel, a toxic relationship where they just don't want to be alone but where both only care for themselves.
I'm sure I screwed up a lot in my english sorry, maybe i wasn't clear about some things so feel free of comment.

[Nairobin]

I'll say this much. I think that you're defenses and criticisms are all somewhat valid, but also wrong at the same time. The problem here is that Cavemanon unironically wrote Inco AND Anon (along with the rest of the characters imo) too damn well. I kid you not that is the actual issue here. See, having these alternate endings is nice to teach the player a lesson (because ultimately that's what they are truly there for) but it's so obvious with how the story in both snoot game and I Wani Hug That Gator was written that such endings simply don't fit the characters for who they are, or would likely become. Ending 4 in both games feels so right because it really is just that, right. It's not perfect, it's not like such endings are necessarily some kind of "happily ever after." They are actually more akin to "reality" if anything. (Spoiler alert) Fang in ending 4 ends up getting separated from Anon for extended periods of time making it hard to have a relationship with each other. Couple this with the fact that she became someone who was truly "independent" as a person. You can see that she could have left him at any point in time, legitimately. She didn't need him like in ending 3. But that's just it, it's supposed to show something that few really understand about "true love," and that's that it is VOLUNTARY. She doesn't really need anon and neither does he need her to live life. But it's such an obvious choice to make between the two because who they are as people that it would make no sense for them to allow this to keep them from getting together in the end in spite of this seperation. (Check Naomi's tribulations and Trish's Tribulations as well for a better understanding of what I mean, same with Ending 3 as well). In I Wani Hug That Gator it's very similar, but thematically the opposite in some ways. Anon wanted to be unknown (anonymous almost) while Inco wants to be known by everyone for popularity reasons (partially, it's a bit more complicated than that, his parents never really give him attention so that likely partially feeds into it if anything). For Inco and Olivia it's like the tables flipped around a bit. Even so, the funny thing about the two (and I like how you guys realize why your ending 2 mistake was treating Olivia like Lucy/Fang) is that while Fang was always able to take a step for herself she never did out of fear and needed to start doing it by herself. Unlike Olivia who has so much anger and resentment because truth be told she wants to take every step she makes by herself, but she needs to realize that she literally CAN'T do some of those things on her own (both figuratively AND literally... Cause her legs are broke) Even so that's just it, Inco is so thoughtful no matter what ending, and that's the problem (same with anon for the most part lmao). Anon and Inco aren't extremely "moldable" self insert characters. They are there own people, just like in real life there is only one reality that we live in. In a way the actions we take in it truly show who we are, every other "what if" is just that, a "what if." It's not what really is, and that's the issue. Every other "ending" is effectively a what if. It's "what-if" Inco were the kind of person to make that choice, and yet it simply doesn't work BECAUSE they wrote him too well! This isn't a visual novel like "Slay the Princess" Inco and anon are NOT the player. In a way, the reason why ending 4 feels so well done is because it's really just the conclusion to THEIR stories. The rest are really just "emancipations" they are what capture partial realities. I'm sorry if my explanation is a bit weird, but I think you can kind of tell that Ending 4 of both games probably came either a bit earlier or later in development. I think that E3 was the first ending in snoot game made, but they started to develop the characters more and realized that something that would make more sense and encapsulate their story for what it truly was would have been what ended up becoming e4. Same with I Wani Hug That Gator (kind of) you can really tell that the most effort went into those endings, since those really do seem to be the "true" endings of their respective games (again, imo).


I hope this review was something you all enjoyed reading! Sorry if it's a bit short, I wanted to add a bit more concerning some parts of the game and my analysis (although I'll admit, funnily enough I find my writing here a bit too scattered and "wordy," imprecise?) I still hope this was something that makes sense!

Sincerely, A Gator Lover. ;)

[Craigrr]

Publicado originalmente por Nairobin:

Sincerely, A Gator Lover. ;)

I read all that, and same as you there are parts I agree and disagree with. I'll admit, its been a while since I've played Wani and I'll need to do a full non-skip playthrough in order to properly (and with actual legitimate authority) put together my ideas. It might be the scenario where I gassed up this game so much that minor qualms became major issues, since realistically it isn't that bad and a lot of other things on the market are much worse.

However, I think that letting this sort of thing slide would be a little disrespectful to Wani. Wani is an amazing product that strives for something close to perfection, and to let it off the hook because it gets everything else (so far) right would be blasphemy, especially when one of the points of the game is to let people fail on their own even if you love them, since its what they want and what they deserve (its a matter of respect). My issue will be a complete immersion killer to some, or barely an afterthought to others. But its still there, and no matter how much it may mean to someone specifically, it must be acknowledged on some level as existing by everyone. Plus, maybe someone at Cave team would end up seeing it and agreeing, using such criticism to improve upon further product, much like Wani has in many many aspects is.
Long story short I am the big smart and you are the dumb.
(Also yeah I fumbled the bag when it came to considering Olivia as someone else other than Fang, fail-RP ing the very respect for agency the previous game tried teaching me. RIP. It is not lost on me that I got the SIMP ending by being a simp for Olivia and trying everything in my power to make her comfortable despite that being one of the pitfalls that Naomi fell into.

Jesus ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Christ I'm Naomi. If pinching doesn't work, shoot me.)

(Also also, love how the game expanded one the support vs help theme with there being situations where someone does genuinely need help, and that there are situations where leaving someone completely alone with their own devices will not actually cause them to girlboss their way out of depression. Sometimes people don't know when to ask for help.)

That said, the game is a visual novel with several paths you have the opportunity to take. Even if endings 1-3 aren't canon, they are still options. The pathway taken to reach said options needed to be believable. If they were a sort of side extra chapter separated from events then maybe you could get away with said Evil realities, but that's not what it is. This is an interactive experience where your choices matter, and the consequences of those choices need to be believable. I can see ending 1 being believable since there are absolutely choices that cause Inco to enter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mode and you will have to see quite a few in order to achieve it. My problem was that with my play-through Inco had barely a hint of being capable of acting that way until the sushi scene. As I said before, the seeds were there, but I remember barely seeing a sprout until way too late in the game.

I'm not saying that Inco is the player (even though he is literally me fr fr), I was able to glean that the moment I set eyes upon him (also I already had the context of Snoot game up my sleeve, and by sleeve I mean ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥). What I'm arguing is that the pathway that leads him to the point of ending 2, if we were to remove all choices and the story only followed the events in my playthrough as if it were a straight up book, isn't believable in my eyes. While prom was the next natural step from the sushi scene, the sushi scene wasn't a natural step from what came before it. (Now that I think about it Inco wanting to do everything to his idea of perfect [like that bastard, Naomi] could have been and definitely is foreshadowed by failing the wedding vibe check, but as I said these are entirely missable. I think that there should have been more overt instances of ♥♥♥♥♥ Inco in non optional text because it maintains the idea of Inco having Anon/JokerMode potential throughout the story rather than only the times you fail the vibe checks which can frankly be few and far between and most can be missed by just not being an ass).
I love saying the same sentence in several different variations to make a paragraph, its my favorite thing to do.

Part of it is that Inco's internal monologue doesn't entirely glean into his selfish upset-with-others-for-not-doing-things-his-way-and-also-not-noticing-his-cool-jacket side, but as I said I don't have an authority on this part since Ill need to do ♥♥♥♥ all over again.

Ultimately this is how I feel, and I cant entirely reason with it at this point in time. As I said before, gassed up this game so hard that a literal nitpick is killing me. Its gonna take a bit to get a fully objective opinion since not only do I have to deal with rose tinted glasses I also have to deal with the stinky pessimist glasses too. Ill get back to y'all again with a full synopsis when I manage to ape through every single ending again because Ill definitely need to redo 2 if I'm going to maintain or break this feeling I have for it.

Essentially, where every ending in Snoot game felt believable no matter what series of events led you to them, I didn't leave my first playthrough of Wani with the same impression. Considering the suckage universes as What-Ifs is, if I may put it harshly, stupid since part of the experience is making the player face the consequences of Inco's actions. What makes Snoot and Wani so heartbreaking is that, most likely, you chose the answers YOU would have gone with, and seeing the horrifying results of your what-you-thought-to-be-reasonable-actions is simply PEAK FICTION. You aren't reaching endings 1-3 thinking about reaching a nightmare reality, you are reaching endings 1-3 (mostly just 2 and 3) thinking you are about to get ending 4. If Inco's descent was believable to me it would have completely annihilated me and left me with the same feelings I had when I got Snoot ending 3 as my first. But, due to The Nitpick (trademarked), while I still leave with that feeling, I also leave feeling a little robbed. I see how it could have gotten to that point, the pieces are there and I did recognize them, it just wasn't executed to my standards.

Ending 2 was my first ending. This is the impression of this game that I'm going to carry for a while, even if I recognize it being more than a little petulant. It broke my immersion. Inco didn't choreograph his ♥♥♥♥♥ attacks well enough. I have still yet to get 1 and 3 so it could just be a situation of one slightly bruised apple in a bunch. All things considered I have literally no qualms with anything else except maybe the gator blahaj disappearing despite being what I thought was a Chekhov's gun (WHY WASN'T IT IN HER CHEST, CAVEMANON? IT JUST UP AND VANISHED, WHERE DID IT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ GO), and some of the animated scenes being a little loosey goosey with frame rate, but I am one that concerns myself with story more than visuals and it really wasn't that egregious (plus seeing Mia get decimated is never going to get old no matter how many choppy frames there are). The artwork in this game is peak 99 times out of ten-ty. However, as I said in one of my points before, this issue I consider minor could mean a lot more to someone else. Road goes both ways and ♥♥♥♥ like that.

Do note that I consider this game a 9/10. Several marked improvements in quality, but that little story bit threw me off sexual style. Despite the emphasis I put on it now and will continue to in the future, I recognize it really ain't all that in the grand scheme of things, especially when peak such as Olivia in the rain and Iadakin losing his ♥♥♥♥ exists. CERTAINLY DESERVING OF SCRUTINY AS I HAVE ESTABLISHED, but it wont be the meteor that kills the Cave-verse.

Yada yada opinions and free will, 0 stars for the tree of life, never going to eat there again. Remember to like, share, and Hug the Gator.

[Sash13]

I think the main issue is with the game design, wit Snoot game, it was "new" and it took us a while to see how it works.

With Wani, we now know, you are on A story line until you arent and you get shuffled in to the particular ending 1 2 3 4. For Wani, its probably right after the scene with a winter fountain. And especially for 2 ending, things gets kinda weird. Inco and Olivia are put in to positions, that feels really weird for them. And you lose all the control, you can only sit, watch it unfold and eat the popcorn.

A lil (but really lil) bummer for me, i expected maybe a little more focus on story experience and player rp. However, we got some sick animations, so worth it.

[Rаndo]

I got 2 first but I kept coping until I saw that her hair wasn't done up like the teasers cavemananon posted on twitter, missing the slow dance was the final nail in the coffin.

I can't believe I screwed up the "you need to let the love interest talk for a bit to let their feelings out" bit TWICE now.

[Ed]

I think something is being lost here. Let us consider the structure of the game.

This is not a web. We do not branch our choices as we go further and further along. It is one solid trunk working its way to one single branch point. There is no deviation. Think an oak vs a baobab. Our ending is only locked in once we're 3/4 of the way through the book. There are a few downsides, and upsides to this structure.

Going with the single path, we can keep all our choices grey. Very few are the choices here that are obviously wrong vs obviously right. You have to be paying attention and make the decisions that are actually needed at the time, rather than just what feels most nice.

However, if during drafting you're not careful to keep the trunk path as a solid middleground, once you get to the branch point, it leans in a particular way. I'd argue it clearly leans towards the two of you doing well. This means we have to put in more legwork to justify bad ends. And with only 1/4 the novel left, that's a tall order.

However, there is a saving grace. The death of Iadakan.

The ending is locked in specifically when you're in Scalars office, dealing with Mia and the aftermath of her riot weeks earlier. This is the day after his death was announced. The death of a beloved mentor can do much to break a person. Olivia is shattered and Inco is reeling. Now we see how they put the pieces together.

If neither of them capable of doing so, it turns out terribly. Enough said about that. If Olivia alone manages it, she does so, but within her toxic mindset. Inco doesn't have the ability to draw her out of it this time. Her potential is reached, but heavily flawed. The wilted flower.

If Inco can manage, but shes been hobbled, he can adequately support Olivia through it. It just takes time. An extra year, and much regret. Finally, if both he and her can support each other through it, we achieve the golden path.

In short, I think the game barely manages to justify the inferior endings. Could be better, but it works.

[󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡]

Got ending 2 just now by going with my gut and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up royally when it came to that one decision involving Ben. I have never felt more gut wrenched than watching Inco and Olivia's relationship crash and burn not once, but twice. Not to mention how miserable both are in the timeskip. Inco essentially becomes his dad and Olivia is completely drained. I guess it's a testament to the quality of this game to make me feel this way. I very rarely feel so emotionally attached to characters and to watch them both suffer is heart breaking in the most sincere sense. I couldn't bring myself to continue the game tonight after that ending. That ♥♥♥♥ hurt.

[Mutar3_Drake]

I felt Ending two intented to be somewhat like "Hash and bittersweet as real life can sometimes get". The game makes a big elipsis of 3 years (where a lot of stuff happened to inco and Olivia), but I think the overall idea is that Player basically failed in helping Olivia to truly "grow as a person", so she keeps being defensive and stubborn about everything (like she was at the formal on that ending); until Inco just couldnt tolerate that any more, even in spite of he stills loves and cares of her. The interesinng is that even tough the relationship hit bottom there, that ending is still open enough to believe there still will be a chance for them to get things better on time. Just like no few real-life couples do.