Ending 2 a little disatisfying?

[Craigrr]

I don't mean this in the sense that I'm upset its an ending where ♥♥♥♥ hits the proverbial fan, but in the sense that the way it happens feels unearned.

Spoilers for ending 2, obviously. What are you, stupid?

While there are options that demonstrate how much of an ass Inco can be, they can be missed and still achieve ending 2. I find this to be an issue because while we do get small moments displaying how vain Inco is they are relatively tame and few and far between. Hell, if you miss them then they are gone, it is optional dialogue. Nothing in the game that isn't completely avoidable shows him in such a state except MAYBE the train scene in the beginning. Something must've been in that sushi cause he just straight speedruns ♥♥♥♥♥ mode at the 11th hour.

Inco's internal monologue for the most part came across as perfectly healthy, especially the parts where he is rationalizing how his life isn't over just because he had a bad first impression. He seemed a perfectly normal amount of selfish and egotistical for his age, and then they disappeared after the first hour. From then on internal monologue Inco is just a normal ass guy. Yes, there are small parts that in hindsight could be red flags, but to be completely lost on the sheer gravity of his potential ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ for the entire game is either a catastrophic error on mine or the game's end. My issue isn't that Inco's decisions were justified by him, I actually respect a lot that he convincingly justifies his thought process. My issue is that I don't believe the way he responds to his surroundings the entire game matches the way he does in this ending.

In Snoot game it made sense that things could end up as bad as they did because from go we immediately saw how much of a piece of ♥♥♥♥ Anon was, and he kept up small elements of this throughout the game through his not so internal dialogue. Also Anon was misgendering his best friend for 99% of the game so it wasnt hard to miss. The process that Anon underwent in these endings to reach the consequences he earned were also entirely believable no matter how you played him to get there. I didn't get that impression in Wani.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea behind this ending. Inco is being nice, not respectful. He inflates Olivia's ego and doesn't do her the respect to let her take responsibility. He is obsessed with everything being perfect for everyone, a lot like Naomi, and grew impatient when he felt that he was putting more effort into such perfection than everyone else. This ♥♥♥♥ was absolutely fire but it wasn't properly built up to in my opinion. It should have spent more time on a gradual decline of Inco's state to that point, or the game should've displayed Inco's potential to be like this better.

Tell me if I'm stupid or missed something, cause I would rather me entirely missed the point then have other people feel the same way.

[G-Man]

Inco and Anon have the same problem to overcome, they're completely full of themselves. Anon is a loner that cuts himself off from everybody while Inco is outgoing but he's only ever thinking about himself (like in the dodgeball game.) Ending 2 inco isn't completely gone like ending 1 and is trying to help Olivia but he's made no attempt to understand her. He thinks he's doing the right thing but he's mistaken because he doesn't have any real appreciation for what Olivia's going through. Ben made the same mistake. Olivia is kinda going through the same thing: she's so absorbed in her stubbornness and self-loathing that instead of appreciating other's genuine attempts at help and friendship she takes it as an insult and hurts those who are trying to help her. I guess Anon is so miserable from the get-go that ending 2 doesn't come as much of a surprise while Inco is so narrow-minded that he thinks he's the good guy all the way up to the point where it all comes crashing down. Gratitude has its roots in understanding while a lack of understanding is not only insulting but it can lead to completely false interpretations of what's really going on. That's my main takeaway from Wani anyway. I do admit that ending 2 was a pretty sharp shift in tone but I don't think it's as bad as you think.

I wouldn't say the right choices are only clear in hindsight either. I realized pretty quickly exactly which choices I made wrong. Inco justifies his choices fine and genuinely wants to do the right thing, he's just too ignorant and inconsiderate to really know what to do.

[The Infamous Cloaker]

I think the main characterization of Inco is that he is suppose to be a bit of an oblivious rich kid that doesn't fully understand how the real world works and how people works. In the worse endings he never truly learns that shallow popularity and throwing money around doesn't solve every issue when it comes to things.

[McJiggy]

Originally posted by Craigrr:

Also Anon was misgendering his best friend for 99% of the game

You must've missed the entire point of the game if you think enabling Fang's delusion about being 'non binary' was healthy and normal, especially with Snoot's E2.

[insert controversial opinion]

I just got ending 2, and i gotta say, i ended up more stressed afterward then i feel like i shouldve been. It happened to be the first ending i got which in my opinion makes me too sad to replay again because i might just get the same ending and feel bad. I feel like if i got a good ending first i would replay to see if the bad ending is really that bad and i'd think "the good ending is probably the true ending so ill ignore this". So yeah, i agree, really did not feel good to get ending 2.

[Craigrr]

Originally posted by McJiggy:

Originally posted by Craigrr:

Also Anon was misgendering his best friend for 99% of the game

You must've missed the entire point of the game if you think enabling Fang's delusion about being 'non binary' was healthy and normal, especially with Snoot's E2.

Aight, so Fang adopting an identity she didn't entirely vibe with in an effort to cope with her trauma was definitely a bad thing, but at the time it was still the one she chose and should've been respected. It should be and is something she naturally grows out of when she grows as a person and realizes that she doesn't need to hide from herself and likes being a girl more. Forcing a separate identity onto her even if it will eventually be the one she agrees with is a bad thing.

Also near the end Anon finally uses the correct pronouns and it is shown as positive character development for him. Anon wasn't getting it wrong out of some misplaced goodwill, he was doing it because he didn't care to get it right (and because he is an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥).

[Craigrr]

Originally posted by G-Man:

I do admit that ending 2 was a pretty sharp shift in tone but I don't think it's as bad as you think.

I admit to using a bit of hyperbole in my point. My main issue is with how 0-100 it felt. Even if it was so small the game had been completely peak, no nitpicks up until that point. I still love the game and I'm not petty enough to let something so small ruin my enjoyment of it.

[Akumakid]

Originally posted by Craigrr:

Originally posted by G-Man:

I do admit that ending 2 was a pretty sharp shift in tone but I don't think it's as bad as you think.

I admit to using a bit of hyperbole in my point. My main issue is with how 0-100 it felt. Even if it was so small the game had been completely peak, no nitpicks up until that point. I still love the game and I'm not petty enough to let something so small ruin my enjoyment of it.

I am going back though the game after i got all the ending and letting it sit with me for a few days, If you are up for it, i would start back another playthrough and see if you picked up on anything. I picked up on the wrong key words in Coach's first talk with Inco and forgot about the other stuff besides "Don't Give Up." When I reread that part and some of the beginning interactions some stuff later on made alot more with how inco was acting and the others in the cast has acted, at least in my head.

[KaeWhy]

Specifically:

You weren't blocking anything. You were showing off. You found a single thing you could do and started dancing around like a clown. You focused on the easy thing, and gave up the real thing. You were so focused that you forgot to look around for a moment... and here you are.

Sounds like Bad!Inco down to a tee. Even in E2 he seems more concerned with making an impression than actually being there for Olivia and getting both of them to grow up.

[Receiver K]

Nah, you right. E1 and E2 are kinda unearned at least as far as Inco's arc goes. He's nothing but humble and amicable until he suddenly isn't in those endings.

[Terminal Magic]

Originally posted by Progenitor of Memes:

He's nothing but humble and amicable until he suddenly isn't in those endings.

I think what you're meant to read into that is an insincerity, though i feel like I'm failing to find a better similar word. Inco in the bad ends doesn't work on himself, and / or doesn't properly encourage / challenge Olivia throughout the course of the game. His internal monologue obviously won't betray his being ♥♥♥♥♥♥ most of the time since he doesn't usually think he's doing anything wrong, and outwardly he's still trying, just poorly.

Bad Inco isn't a bad guy because he's malicious exactly, but because he failed to learn from introspection and failed to properly listen to Olivia. He's still giving it his best shot, but in E1 and E2 (Especially E1) he just doesn't understand Olivia or himself well enough to do anything of worth. I think there's more of the vain, self centered, opportunistic Inco we see in E1 and E2 in him in the intro than we realize. He hasn't had anyone else up to this point, so of course he doesn't give other people much thought. Like Ben, he's trying to garner popularity as a means of survival. You can try to steer him away from that and still get the bad ends, but the bottom line is that's present from the jump. His natural tendencies before player intervention and before meeting Damien, Liz, Ben and Olivia are self serving and cynical.

On reflection I'm impressed how much I think his friends can reflect his flaws. Like Ben and Liz he initially sees friendship and popularity as a tool. As an artist you need to network, but he needs to basically be bludgeoned by Damien into turning that switch off. Damien is always trying to manipulate his friends (to noble ends) and In routes where Inco tries too hard to steer Olivia onto the right path, or takes agency from her, she blocks him out. Like Olivia, Inco is initially prone to self pity and submission. Solly immediately calls him out for it, but again without player choice that facet of his personality is established. Inco is prepared to shift blame, lie still and take whatever's coming to him.

If you choose the options that can fuel these cynical tendencies, I think it makes sense that Inco makes a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ friend. Some of the differences are severe escalations, but I think it accurately captures the vapid self absorbed prick Inco has the capacity to become.

[The Infamous Cloaker]

Bad Inco is not Bad Anon levels of bad.

However, Bad Inco is self absorbed, thinks he is always in the right, doesn't take other peoples opinions into account, takes the easy route in every choice.

[Receiver K]

Originally posted by Terminal Magic:

Originally posted by Progenitor of Memes:

He's nothing but humble and amicable until he suddenly isn't in those endings.

I think what you're meant to read into that is an insincerity, though i feel like I'm failing to find a better similar word. Inco in the bad ends doesn't work on himself, and / or doesn't properly encourage / challenge Olivia throughout the course of the game. His internal monologue obviously won't betray his being ♥♥♥♥♥♥ most of the time since he doesn't usually think he's doing anything wrong, and outwardly he's still trying, just poorly.

Bad Inco isn't a bad guy because he's malicious exactly, but because he failed to learn from introspection and failed to properly listen to Olivia. He's still giving it his best shot, but in E1 and E2 (Especially E1) he just doesn't understand Olivia or himself well enough to do anything of worth. I think there's more of the vain, self centered, opportunistic Inco we see in E1 and E2 in him in the intro than we realize. He hasn't had anyone else up to this point, so of course he doesn't give other people much thought. Like Ben, he's trying to garner popularity as a means of survival. You can try to steer him away from that and still get the bad ends, but the bottom line is that's present from the jump. His natural tendencies before player intervention and before meeting Damien, Liz, Ben and Olivia are self serving and cynical.

On reflection I'm impressed how much I think his friends can reflect his flaws. Like Ben and Liz he initially sees friendship and popularity as a tool. As an artist you need to network, but he needs to basically be bludgeoned by Damien into turning that switch off. Damien is always trying to manipulate his friends (to noble ends) and In routes where Inco tries too hard to steer Olivia onto the right path, or takes agency from her, she blocks him out. Like Olivia, Inco is initially prone to self pity and submission. Solly immediately calls him out for it, but again without player choice that facet of his personality is established. Inco is prepared to shift blame, lie still and take whatever's coming to him.

If you choose the options that can fuel these cynical tendencies, I think it makes sense that Inco makes a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ friend. Some of the differences are severe escalations, but I think it accurately captures the vapid self absorbed prick Inco has the capacity to become.

I don't know. There's the unreliable narrator, and then there's not doing anything remotely selfish until you've already locked in your terrible fate. I just don't think Inco was written from the start as a selfish or vain person, at least more than a lost guy wanting approval and friendship. The decisions he's required to make and the dialogue forced in the story is of someone far too thoughtful to convincingly be as evil as he is in E1. I mean, it's almost the gaslighting ending when he really doesn't even have lying capacity in the game up to that point. The one or two hints at something more selfish are almost always immediately recanted and are nothing more than a passing thought.
He just doesn't have nearly enough negative tendencies by the turning point for E1 to feel earned; E2 is more debatable because it's not like he ever expressly GETS her disability complex in the other endings, she gets over it herself and only his outburst at prom seems like a poor justification for why she should apologize rather than honest thoughts.
I don't think his supposed obsession for popularity or approval is as believable as it should be. We all desire to be liked and it really doesn't go farther than that for him outside of some non-binary dialogue that doesn't even net different responses. The options you CAN consider selfish too are so miniscule that, while they easily could shift the entire outcome, just isn't enough for me to see Inco's negative shifts as well written. In most cases, the choices don't even benefit him or his social standing (see: getting Olivia to come outside, helping her against Mia and painting a target on his back, etc).
It's a shame. I think this game could have benefited from the same /lit/ anon that told the devs off on their original idea for Snoot Game's trad-wife ending, if only to have salvaged E1 and Inco's overall arc.

[Sash13]

Got the 2 ending first...

Yea that kinda got me too, in the first ending, you see from the start, things are bad, in the second, its more hidden. But then it comes out and it blows, i admit, i didnt see it coming (though i knew i was ♥♥♥♥♥♥, when Inco started "WELL ACTUALLY" at the sushi scene). Also Olivia claiming herself the "protege", but not actually painting the picture.

My mistake was treating Olivia like Fang/Lucy, but i should actually do the complete opposite. Olivia trusts only herself and nobody else (except you know, certain teacher)Fang trusts only the others, never making own decisions. I wonder what my ending would be, had Wani been my first game...

Alas, it is, what it is. I definetly like Inco much less then Anon, as a character i mean, that could have play the role too.

[Receiver K]

Originally posted by Sash13:

Got the 2 ending first...

Yea that kinda got me too, in the first ending, you see from the start, things are bad, in the second, its more hidden. But then it comes out and it blows, i admit, i didnt see it coming (though i knew i was ♥♥♥♥♥♥, when Inco started "WELL ACTUALLY" at the sushi scene). Also Olivia claiming herself the "protege", but not actually painting the picture.

My mistake was treating Olivia like Fang/Lucy, but i should actually do the complete opposite. Olivia trusts only herself and nobody else (except you know, certain teacher)Fang trusts only the others, never making own decisions. I wonder what my ending would be, had Wani been my first game...

Alas, it is, what it is. I definetly like Inco much less then Anon, as a character i mean, that could have play the role too.

It's the lack of arc in my opinion. Nowhere to go but down for him so the bad endings don't feel as genuine.

[Sash13]

Originally posted by Progenitor of Memes:

Originally posted by Sash13:

Got the 2 ending first...

Yea that kinda got me too, in the first ending, you see from the start, things are bad, in the second, its more hidden. But then it comes out and it blows, i admit, i didnt see it coming (though i knew i was ♥♥♥♥♥♥, when Inco started "WELL ACTUALLY" at the sushi scene). Also Olivia claiming herself the "protege", but not actually painting the picture.

My mistake was treating Olivia like Fang/Lucy, but i should actually do the complete opposite. Olivia trusts only herself and nobody else (except you know, certain teacher)Fang trusts only the others, never making own decisions. I wonder what my ending would be, had Wani been my first game...

Alas, it is, what it is. I definetly like Inco much less then Anon, as a character i mean, that could have play the role too.

It's the lack of arc in my opinion. Nowhere to go but down for him so the bad endings don't feel as genuine.

I do admit, i expected a little bit more choices and story. Especially for Inco.