What makes a "true" ending?

[Nairobin]

So, I already typed this out as a response to some criticism towards the other endings in BOTH Snoot Game AND I Wani Hug That Gator. In short (summary) the whole thing I try and say in this schizo post is that "Canon" or what makes other endings less true than others in something like a visual novel such as snoot game/Wani is pretty much the characters actions relating to them alongside the setting. In the words of the great writer Henry James himself "What is incident but the illumination of character, and what is character but the determination of incident?" e4 does it near perfectly in both games, the rest aren't really able to do that.

(That was not very short)

But yeah, here's what I think of the criticisms you guys:


I think that you're defenses and criticisms are all somewhat valid, but also wrong at the same time. The problem here is that Cavemanon unironically wrote Inco AND Anon (along with the rest of the characters imo) too damn well. I kid you not that is the actual issue here. See, having these alternate endings is nice to teach the player a lesson (because ultimately that's what they are truly there for) but it's so obvious with how the story in both snoot game and I Wani Hug That Gator was written that such endings simply don't fit the characters for who they are, or would likely become.

Ending 4 in both games feels so right because it really is just that, right. It's not perfect, it's not like such endings are necessarily some kind of "happily ever after." They are actually more akin to "reality" if anything. (Spoiler alert) Fang in ending 4 ends up getting separated from Anon for extended periods of time making it hard to have a relationship with each other. Couple this with the fact that she became someone who was truly "independent" as a person. You can see that she could have left him at any point in time, legitimately. She didn't need him like in ending 3. But that's just it, it's supposed to show something that few really understand about "true love," and that's that it is VOLUNTARY.


She doesn't really need anon and neither does he need her to live life. But it's such an obvious choice to make between the two because who they are as people that it would make no sense for them to allow this to keep them from getting together in the end in spite of this seperation. (Check Naomi's tribulations and Trish's Tribulations as well for a better understanding of what I mean, same with Ending 3 as well). In I Wani Hug That Gator it's very similar, but thematically the opposite in some ways. Anon wanted to be unknown (anonymous almost) while Inco wants to be known by everyone for popularity reasons (partially, it's a bit more complicated than that, his parents never really give him attention so that likely partially feeds into it if anything).

For Inco and Olivia it's like the tables flipped around a bit. Even so, the funny thing about the two (and I like how you guys realize why your ending 2 mistake was treating Olivia like Lucy/Fang) is that while Fang was always able to take a step for herself she never did out of fear and needed to start doing it by herself. Unlike Olivia who has so much anger and resentment because truth be told she wants to take every step she makes by herself, but she needs to realize that she literally CAN'T do some of those things on her own (both figuratively AND literally... Cause her legs are broke) Even so that's just it, Inco is so thoughtful no matter what ending, and that's the problem (same with anon for the most part lmao).
Anon and Inco aren't "moldable" self insert characters. They are there own people, just like in real life there is only one reality that we live in. In a way the actions we take in it truly show who we are, every other "what if" is just that, a "what if." It's not what really is, and that's the issue. Every other "ending" is effectively a what if. It's "what-if" Inco were the kind of person to make that choice, and yet it simply doesn't work BECAUSE they wrote him too well! This isn't a visual novel like "Slay the Princess" Inco and anon are NOT the player. In a way, the reason why ending 4 feels so well done is because it's really just the conclusion to THEIR stories.
The rest are really just "emancipations" they are what capture partial realities. I'm sorry if my explanation is a bit weird, but I think you can kind of tell that Ending 4 of both games probably came either a bit earlier or later in development. I think that E3 was the first ending in snoot game made, but they started to develop the characters more and realized that something that would make more sense and encapsulate their story for what it truly was would have been what ended up becoming e4. Same with I Wani Hug That Gator (kind of) you can really tell that the most effort went into those endings, since those really do seem to be the "true" endings of their respective games (again, imo).


I hope this review was something you all enjoyed reading! Sorry if it's a bit short, I wanted to add a bit more concerning some parts of the game and my analysis (although I'll admit, funnily enough I find my writing here a bit too scattered and "wordy," imprecise?) I still hope this was something that makes sense!

Sincerely, A Gator Lover. ;)

[G-Man]

I don't consider any of the endings more "true" than the other. One of my favorite things about Cavemanon's style is how connected your choices are to the characters. Each choice carries deep significance for how the characters develop and the different endings reflect that really well. I guess I consider all the endings equal in that way since they are what really show how much your choices matter.

I do agree that ending 4 in both Wani and Snoot are the best in the sense that the characters become fully actualized. Like you said: Fang is able to become independent and take control of her own life without needing to rely on others like Anon. In Olivia's case, she learns to be her own person rather than what everyone sees her as. Same goes for Anon and Inco. It's all very well written so, in that way, ending 4 is kinda the "truest" ending. Also, it's the happiest ending and who doesn't want to see their beloved characters get a happy ending? I think that the other endings are just as important though and I recommend everyone to see all four, even the bad endings, even if they make you feel terrible.

[Nairobin]

Originally posted by G-Man:

I don't consider any of the endings more "true" than the other. One of my favorite things about Cavemanon's style is how connected your choices are to the characters. Each choice carries deep significance for how the characters develop and the different endings reflect that really well. I guess I consider all the endings equal in that way since they are what really show how much your choices matter.

I do agree that ending 4 in both Wani and Snoot are the best in the sense that the characters become fully actualized. Like you said: Fang is able to become independent and take control of her own life without needing to rely on others like Anon. In Olivia's case, she learns to be her own person rather than what everyone sees her as. Same goes for Anon and Inco. It's all very well written so, in that way, ending 4 is kinda the "truest" ending. Also, it's the happiest ending and who doesn't want to see their beloved characters get a happy ending? I think that the other endings are just as important though and I recommend everyone to see all four, even the bad endings, even if they make you feel terrible.

I agree with this, but not entirely. You make a valid point about the importance of the other endings. But in the end, there can only really be one "true" ending. Think about how reality works, when we do something there is always the "what-if" but that doesn't make that what if real. In a way, truly good writing (like cavemanons) actually realizes this, because in a way you can tell what the story is really being written for. You can't have the same characters going through the same questions with (technically) the same thought processes. Which actually makes sense since well... THEY ARE JUST THAT! I know some people could say "well those decisions change the characters and who they are right?" Not really, in fact that's just it. THAT'S THE ISSUE. Inco is the "same" person in the other endings as he is in the best ending, and that actually makes sense. Because you can't write a character with as much depth as Inco or Anon without them making a specific decision that they would truly do. There are decisions they simply WOULD NOT MAKE. It's actually what makes the other endings so interesting imo. As they aren't meant to represent the characters truth be told... Whether Cavemanon meant to do this or not, they aren't for the characters, they are meant for YOU the player! Which is actually huge! It's so genius because it's what makes them important. In a way it's a punishment for the player regarding them getting the story wrong, it's showing what would have happened if YOU made the decisions according to yourself rather than with how the characters would have. It's very different to games like the fate series and other visual novels imo. Since (and this isn't entirely a bad thing necessarily ofc) but the reality of the situation is that a novel or story can only have one true ending. Which is why the others are, just as you said important because of the lessons they teach you. I understand why some people would like to say "Well, none of the endings are necessarily the true ending." But I think that's kind of a cop-out/marketing "ploy." Since all people are really saying is that they don't necessarily understand the characters well enough to discern that effectively. It's sort of similar to real life, we always tell ourselves how we could have made a decision either way, but that's just it! We make the decision IN A SPECIFIC WAY! That's what makes the endings so different from one another and what makes them have issues outside of e4 of each game respectively. The thought process that the characters go through really highlights how you're making wrong decisions. (I mean, in I Wani Hug That Gator it's SUPER apparent when you mess up usually lol. Like, it's clear you aren't acting how the characters would probably act). It's a nice way of doing storytelling imo. Since rather than crafting a cruddy "imperfect-multiverse." The authors are showing you, sort of indirectly why things went they do in a certain ending. That's just me though, honestly I like true endings in particular since it's unlike the cruddy crap Marvel consistently pushes out these days "Multiverse that or this." It's stupid, real life ain't like that lmao. There is only ONE reality, and as much as it sucks, it is as it should be. Through all the pain and all the suffering the beauty of this world still prevails. That's it really.

Sincerely, Gator Lover Dude

[Axl]

Originally posted by Nairobin:

Originally posted by G-Man:

I don't consider any of the endings more "true" than the other. One of my favorite things about Cavemanon's style is how connected your choices are to the characters. Each choice carries deep significance for how the characters develop and the different endings reflect that really well. I guess I consider all the endings equal in that way since they are what really show how much your choices matter.

I do agree that ending 4 in both Wani and Snoot are the best in the sense that the characters become fully actualized. Like you said: Fang is able to become independent and take control of her own life without needing to rely on others like Anon. In Olivia's case, she learns to be her own person rather than what everyone sees her as. Same goes for Anon and Inco. It's all very well written so, in that way, ending 4 is kinda the "truest" ending. Also, it's the happiest ending and who doesn't want to see their beloved characters get a happy ending? I think that the other endings are just as important though and I recommend everyone to see all four, even the bad endings, even if they make you feel terrible.

I agree with this, but not entirely. You make a valid point about the importance of the other endings. But in the end, there can only really be one "true" ending. Think about how reality works, when we do something there is always the "what-if" but that doesn't make that what if real. In a way, truly good writing (like cavemanons) actually realizes this, because in a way you can tell what the story is really being written for. You can't have the same characters going through the same questions with (technically) the same thought processes. Which actually makes sense since well... THEY ARE JUST THAT! I know some people could say "well those decisions change the characters and who they are right?" Not really, in fact that's just it. THAT'S THE ISSUE. Inco is the "same" person in the other endings as he is in the best ending, and that actually makes sense. Because you can't write a character with as much depth as Inco or Anon without them making a specific decision that they would truly do. There are decisions they simply WOULD NOT MAKE. It's actually what makes the other endings so interesting imo. As they aren't meant to represent the characters truth be told... Whether Cavemanon meant to do this or not, they aren't for the characters, they are meant for YOU the player! Which is actually huge! It's so genius because it's what makes them important. In a way it's a punishment for the player regarding them getting the story wrong, it's showing what would have happened if YOU made the decisions according to yourself rather than with how the characters would have. It's very different to games like the fate series and other visual novels imo. Since (and this isn't entirely a bad thing necessarily ofc) but the reality of the situation is that a novel or story can only have one true ending. Which is why the others are, just as you said important because of the lessons they teach you. I understand why some people would like to say "Well, none of the endings are necessarily the true ending." But I think that's kind of a cop-out/marketing "ploy." Since all people are really saying is that they don't necessarily understand the characters well enough to discern that effectively. It's sort of similar to real life, we always tell ourselves how we could have made a decision either way, but that's just it! We make the decision IN A SPECIFIC WAY! That's what makes the endings so different from one another and what makes them have issues outside of e4 of each game respectively. The thought process that the characters go through really highlights how you're making wrong decisions. (I mean, in I Wani Hug That Gator it's SUPER apparent when you mess up usually lol. Like, it's clear you aren't acting how the characters would probably act). It's a nice way of doing storytelling imo. Since rather than crafting a cruddy "imperfect-multiverse." The authors are showing you, sort of indirectly why things went they do in a certain ending. That's just me though, honestly I like true endings in particular since it's unlike the cruddy crap Marvel consistently pushes out these days "Multiverse that or this." It's stupid, real life ain't like that lmao. There is only ONE reality, and as much as it sucks, it is as it should be. Through all the pain and all the suffering the beauty of this world still prevails. That's it really.

Sincerely, Gator Lover Dude

I just don't want ending one to be canon ;-;

[Mutar3_Drake]

Originally posted by Nairobin:

So, I already typed this out as a response to some criticism towards the other endings in BOTH Snoot Game AND I Wani Hug That Gator. In short (summary) the whole thing I try and say in this schizo post is that "Canon" or what makes other endings less true than others in something like a visual novel such as snoot game/Wani is pretty much the characters actions relating to them alongside the setting. In the words of the great writer Henry James himself "What is incident but the illumination of character, and what is character but the determination of incident?" e4 does it near perfectly in both games, the rest aren't really able to do that.

(That was not very short)

But yeah, here's what I think of the criticisms you guys:


I think that you're defenses and criticisms are all somewhat valid, but also wrong at the same time. The problem here is that Cavemanon unironically wrote Inco AND Anon (along with the rest of the characters imo) too damn well. I kid you not that is the actual issue here. See, having these alternate endings is nice to teach the player a lesson (because ultimately that's what they are truly there for) but it's so obvious with how the story in both snoot game and I Wani Hug That Gator was written that such endings simply don't fit the characters for who they are, or would likely become.

Ending 4 in both games feels so right because it really is just that, right. It's not perfect, it's not like such endings are necessarily some kind of "happily ever after." They are actually more akin to "reality" if anything. (Spoiler alert) Fang in ending 4 ends up getting separated from Anon for extended periods of time making it hard to have a relationship with each other. Couple this with the fact that she became someone who was truly "independent" as a person. You can see that she could have left him at any point in time, legitimately. She didn't need him like in ending 3. But that's just it, it's supposed to show something that few really understand about "true love," and that's that it is VOLUNTARY.


She doesn't really need anon and neither does he need her to live life. But it's such an obvious choice to make between the two because who they are as people that it would make no sense for them to allow this to keep them from getting together in the end in spite of this seperation. (Check Naomi's tribulations and Trish's Tribulations as well for a better understanding of what I mean, same with Ending 3 as well). In I Wani Hug That Gator it's very similar, but thematically the opposite in some ways. Anon wanted to be unknown (anonymous almost) while Inco wants to be known by everyone for popularity reasons (partially, it's a bit more complicated than that, his parents never really give him attention so that likely partially feeds into it if anything).

For Inco and Olivia it's like the tables flipped around a bit. Even so, the funny thing about the two (and I like how you guys realize why your ending 2 mistake was treating Olivia like Lucy/Fang) is that while Fang was always able to take a step for herself she never did out of fear and needed to start doing it by herself. Unlike Olivia who has so much anger and resentment because truth be told she wants to take every step she makes by herself, but she needs to realize that she literally CAN'T do some of those things on her own (both figuratively AND literally... Cause her legs are broke) Even so that's just it, Inco is so thoughtful no matter what ending, and that's the problem (same with anon for the most part lmao).
Anon and Inco aren't "moldable" self insert characters. They are there own people, just like in real life there is only one reality that we live in. In a way the actions we take in it truly show who we are, every other "what if" is just that, a "what if." It's not what really is, and that's the issue. Every other "ending" is effectively a what if. It's "what-if" Inco were the kind of person to make that choice, and yet it simply doesn't work BECAUSE they wrote him too well! This isn't a visual novel like "Slay the Princess" Inco and anon are NOT the player. In a way, the reason why ending 4 feels so well done is because it's really just the conclusion to THEIR stories.
The rest are really just "emancipations" they are what capture partial realities. I'm sorry if my explanation is a bit weird, but I think you can kind of tell that Ending 4 of both games probably came either a bit earlier or later in development. I think that E3 was the first ending in snoot game made, but they started to develop the characters more and realized that something that would make more sense and encapsulate their story for what it truly was would have been what ended up becoming e4. Same with I Wani Hug That Gator (kind of) you can really tell that the most effort went into those endings, since those really do seem to be the "true" endings of their respective games (again, imo).


I hope this review was something you all enjoyed reading! Sorry if it's a bit short, I wanted to add a bit more concerning some parts of the game and my analysis (although I'll admit, funnily enough I find my writing here a bit too scattered and "wordy," imprecise?) I still hope this was something that makes sense!

Sincerely, A Gator Lover. ;)

Firstly, as a fellow reader of both "Slay The Princess", "Fate S/N" and "Wani" Visual Novels, I respectfully salute you.

Now, as for the different endings, In my opinion, the matter whether one of them is the "Cannon / True Ending" or not is entirely open to the reader/player interpetation. If you feel more comfortable believing that way in regard to Snoot Game´s or Wani´s Ending Four , I think that is cool and also a and really interesting way to see the history we are being told.

Personally, I really loved the happy endings and how things turned out ED 4, but also felt ending 3 of both games much more heartwarming. Because, even if the main characters did make some mistakes on the road and therefore suffer loses (e.g. Olivia not graduating on ED 3; or Fang not talking anymore to any of her friends), they still manage to find some meaning on it and growth from that experience, opening a nice hope in what the future may bring to them. So I would say ED 3 in the games do are my favourite endings.

But on the other hand, I also think that in Wanni, Ending 2 is actually maybe the more "realistic", because in life SH*T HAPPENS, and for Inco and Olive a lot happend during 3 years. But what happens there does not mean they do not love each other; THEY DO, but they just didnt grow as person or get to undestand each other enough to make the relationship work. (And in the real world that happens A LOT). But that ending also makes you think more in your choises, so no to be too condescending to Olivia in order to get a better ending. (Ah!, but Ending 2 in Snoot just sucked. period)

Endigs 4 of the games bring the better clousure for the characters and the story; maybe not a "happily ever after.", but let they let you go to sleep after reading feeling that everything is going to be alright (and god if I am thankfull of that hehe).

On the end what we may think about the endings in regard as if there is one "Cannon" ending or not, is not as important as the fact as we actually enjoyed our time reading the Novel and meeting the characters.

[Seth Wulfstone]

It's be nice if you actually used the "Spoiler" function since I do intend to play Snoot Game soon, given my appreciation for this game. Especially since you started using spoilers a little more regularly in your post, I didn't read it all the way as a result and I apologize for doing so. Additionally, it would be nice if you broke up some of your paragraphs so they're not as chunk. I was personally taught 5-7 sentences is good for the size of a paragraph, makes it a bit easier to read as well, disregard if you'd like though.

My feelings on what makes a true ending is mostly if it feels rewarding and feels right, which slightly rubs me the wrong way about this game. There were times I felt like things were going well, characters seemed pretty happy, I was content with my choices, then we get a time skip and suddenly things have gone absolutely miserable and it turns out I got ending 2? It took me out of it an sincerely bothered me.

When it comes to ending 4, it's the best ending for sure, I like that everyone's accomplishments come to light and every situation is handled or close enough to be satisfactory. Despite ending 4 being the happiest ending, it also feels like a kind of "Fairy tale" ending since everything went pretty close to perfect. No real complaint from me aside from the ending being exactly that "Too perfect" and yet still beautiful and something to strive for.

Ending 3 is my favorite, it feels realistic in a way, a good bit of effort was put in and while the ending wasn't perfect, it still seems like it ended on a fairly happy note. Acceptable losses and closer to something that most people would have with their own lover nowadays, the more realistic happy ending, you know?

Ending 1 is just.. A bad ending there to be bad? I feel it's harder to land there due to how the system works and how we would respond to the situations in the game, very possible, but hard to do so without being conscious about it.

Despite this, it also feels.. Correct that these function the way they do? Ending 4 is the true ending, and it's VERY easy to miss it on your first blind pass because it requires a lot of very particular choices. I say it's a true end since I believe it's most likely what the devs had intended, it certainly was given a longer epilogue in comparison to the others. It's unrealistic to expect you'd get the perfect ending blind on your first try. Ending 2 can happen often enough, you slip up, make some bad choices, maybe it was just a bad match. Ending 3 you just kicked it off pretty well and while life wasn't as fair you both managed to get through it. Ending 1 just means you missed so many cues and it was just never meant to be, either due to missing the social cues, disregarding your partner, or other mental related reasons.

Whatever ending is "true" is up to you for your own personal satisfaction, and I think we're in the majority in that we'd want Olivia and Inco to be at their happiest in whatever that "true" ending may be.

[ГРИММ]

Думаю всё таки 4 концовка, ведь это единственная концовка имеющая эпилог. Если пройти на 4 концовки, и 4 будет последней то эпилог запуститься сам, если 4 будет не последней то эпилог можно будет запустить из меню и он продолжит 4 концовку.

[Luzzzzzz]

You're in the right place, my friend. The story of the game feels like it's unfolding around us. You will empathize with Olivia's despair and low self-esteem, and you may also perceive her as being somewhat hysterical at times. Initially, Ben may come across as a phony jerk, but eventually you might gain a better understanding of his character. In reality, only the second and third endings can occur, while the first and fourth endings represent two extremes. Falling into despair or experiencing a family reunion is actually quite rare. For a moment, you might even feel genuinely in love with that strong, self-conscious alligator girl—wanting to help her or make her happy—although this feeling quickly fades once the game is over.
Returning to reality (which can often be harsh), you realize that it was all just a dream and tell yourself, "Hey man, this isn't real—the affection I felt won't be reciprocated because it's just a game." This realization brings about a profound sense of disappointment and even depression—a bittersweet aspect of this type of game. The fleeting emotions dissipate as quickly as they came.Even though I know it's just a game, I'll still remember Olivia .