AI units moving 4+ tiles a turn?

[Gadsden Wolf]

Playing single player, I often notice an AI faction moving a single unit 4 tiles in one turn... sometimes across multiple swamp tiles. I can not figure out how they are doing that. Does anyone know? These are early game units that only have a movement stat of two (unless their Fiend has the crown for extra movement, in which case it would still only be 3).

If they are using more than one march order on the same unit... I can't seem to do that.

If there's a movement ritual spell I don't know about?

Has anyone else seen this? Thanks.

[Sipher]

There are units who can teleport and many teleporting units can teleport 3 or even more hexes per turn and since they can cross mountains etc. it often even appears that they can teleport even more then they actually can. Maybe it was that? also there are manuscrips that once invoked increases the movement speed of units by +1 to my knowelege, so a combination of the crown + the manuscript should increase the movement speed of a regular unit to 4 but besides that it should be it. To my knowelege there is not a regular starting legion who has a default movement speed of 3.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

I haven't ever seen an AI moving an early-game unit four tiles across swamps. Teleporting looks very different than moving (for example, the teleporting unit does not move through the intervening cantons, but just disappears and reappears at the destination), so I wouldn't expect those two to be confused with one another.

It isn't possible to give a legion more than one set of move orders in a turn, so that isn't what's happening.

It is possible for a legion to have or learn the ability to cross swamps without having to end their turn, and it is possible for a legion to have a movement of four (or more). I certainly wouldn't expect all of that to happen in the early game, though. With a base move of two and a crown for +1 moves to all legions, you'd still need a manual for +1 movement (two parts) and a manual for swamp walking (two parts). That's four (or more) actions to get those components, then two actions to apply them to a unit.

So - in theory - you could see a unit travel four tiles across swamps as early as turn four. However, that's quite a stretch and relies on a lot of luck/randomness. It might happen, but it would absolutely not happen "often".

[Gadsden Wolf]

Right, that's what I thought, too. Thanks.

It's definitely not teleportation, that does look way different, and these legions are claiming land as they march. And I've seen it happening too early to be from a manual.

I'll just have to keep my eyes open.

[Drakken]

Maybe they have selected a Relic that allows them to boost legion's mobility.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

I just had an AI (Mammon) move their starting legion three cantons, with the second and third both being swamps. This was on turn six. The legion is showing a movement of two, and not showing swamp walking as an ability that it possesses. It also is not showing any artifact or Praetor attached.

Mammon might have +1 movement from a relic, but that wouldn't explain not having to stop on the first swamp (swamps are intended to end the movement of legions that enter them, regardless of how many more cantons that legion might normally have to march, unless the legion has the swamp walker ability).

Maybe there's an explanation that isn't occurring to me. Or, maybe there's a bug that is allowing the AI to move through swamps in an unintended manner. I can't say for certain yet.

Edit: I just finished that game, and was watching closely the entire time. Mammon never again moved any Legion more than two cantons, nor did he ever move a Legion into a swamp canton and then continue moving. In light of that, it seems very unlikely that he had the +1 movement relic (to use it once and then never again in the entire game is possible, but difficult to believe; there were plenty of opportunities for him to benefit from moving his Legions an extra canton).

It also seems unlikely that his champions had gotten a hidden swamp walker ability, because similarly there were plenty of opportunities for Mammon to benefit from moving that Legion into swamp (which he did several other times in the game) and then continuing to move after that (which he never did again).

So, I'm starting to suspect that this may be some kind of bug. The only other thing that I can think of would be a stratagem that gave both +1 move and swamp walking. I haven't used any stratagems yet, so I don't know if such a thing exists. I didn't happen to notice whether Mammon's chosen had a stratagem attached before they made their three-tile-two-swamp move, so if such a stratagem does exist I can't rule it out as a possible explanation. If it does, it would explain how Mammon could have done that once but then may not have been able to do it again later.

I guess next game I'll poke around in stratagems to see what they can do.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Checking stratagems, it seems that all of the options are combat-related (which is what I was expecting). I'm at a loss to explain how Mammon's legion could have done what it did.

[@DrCurlytek]

Hi tempest.of.emptiness,

When you notice something weird like this, please send in a report via the feedback form in game, and make sure it is sending a save file and logs, so we can investigate the problem. We will be able to replay the turns and see if anything strange is happening, and if there is, our engineers can look for a solution.

Cheers,
Stacey
LoG QA

[Strill]

There's a manuscript set that can let a legion move faster. Some legions have a higher base speed as well. Any bonuses to a legion's speed will be reflected on their card in the lower-right, with an icon of a boot. Does that legion card say it has 4 speed?

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Strill:

There's a manuscript set that can let a legion move faster. Some legions have a higher base speed as well. Any bonuses to a legion's speed will be reflected on their card in the lower-right, with an icon of a boot. Does that legion card say it has 4 speed?

Originally posted by Gadsden Wolf:

These are early game units that only have a movement stat of two (unless their Fiend has the crown for extra movement, in which case it would still only be 3).

Originally posted by tempest.of.emptiness:

I just had an AI (Mammon) move their starting legion three cantons, with the second and third both being swamps. This was on turn six. The legion is showing a movement of two, and not showing swamp walking as an ability that it possesses.

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by @DrCurlytek:

Hi tempest.of.emptiness,

When you notice something weird like this, please send in a report via the feedback form in game, and make sure it is sending a save file and logs, so we can investigate the problem. We will be able to replay the turns and see if anything strange is happening, and if there is, our engineers can look for a solution.

Cheers,
Stacey
LoG QA

I will definitely do that if it happens again; I'm keeping an eye out for it, now that I'm sure it is odd and not just something normal that I don't understand yet.

[Cassander]

I think the double swamp thing is tartarean pathfinding, the Wrath3 ritual. With good starting ichor, turn 4 to 6 seems reasonable and it's a buff so no adversary gets notified about it. I can't explain the extra movement though

[tempest.of.emptiness]

I just encountered an example of this phenomenon and submitted a bug report on it.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3169744534
The Gilded of Mammon started the previous turn in the canton currently occupied by Andromalius' legion, and moved through three swamp cantons to arrive in its current location. (Andromalius' legion was in the canton between Mammon's legion's starting and ending positions, and so Mammon's legion was forced to walk around it.) Gilded of Mammon does not have Swamp Walk, and is showing a move of 2.

Originally posted by Cassander:

I think the double swamp thing is tartarean pathfinding, the Wrath3 ritual. With good starting ichor, turn 4 to 6 seems reasonable and it's a buff so no adversary gets notified about it. I can't explain the extra movement though

Tartarian Pathfinding requires Wrath 4, not Wrath 3, so getting it that early seems like a bit of a stretch. However, it could explain the instances of this that I've seen later in the game. The crown that gives +1 movement to legions could also be in play, to explain the distance moved. Hopefully the devs will be able to look at the game save and figure out whether this is a bug or just something unexpected with a good (but hidden) explanation.

[@DrCurlytek]

Yeah, something wrong there for sure tempest.of.emptiness, I'm going to get this one into the system and sorted out as soon as we can.

[Doctor Zalgo]

In the last game I played, I was able to buy a unit with 4 base move from the bazaar. Is that not intended behaviour?

[tempest.of.emptiness]

Originally posted by Doctor Zalgo:

In the last game I played, I was able to buy a unit with 4 base move from the bazaar. Is that not intended behaviour?

If there's a legion on the bazaar with a movement of four, and you buy it, then you've got a legion with a movement of four. That's not a problem.

You can also increase a unit's movement after you control it, by assembling and using a manual that grants a unit +1 movement. Multiple manuals can be applied to the same unit, apparently without limit. I've raised the movement of my starting legion from two to five, for example. That's not a problem either.

The problem being discussed in this thread is one of the starting legions, only showing a movement of two and not showing the special ability that would allow it to enter a swamp canton without ending its movement there, moving more than two cantons and failing to stop after entering the first swamp canton.

There are some ways that this could be possible, which have been mentioned in earlier posts. What has us concerned that there could be a bug is the fact that it is happening very early in the game, sometimes; so early that the ways that it could be possible probably shouldn't yet apply (because they take time to set up). That's not proof of a bug, but it is curious enough for LoG to want to take a look at saved games where this sort of thing happens, so that if it is a bug they can catch and fix it.