Are you serious?

[ovni.demon]

First of all, you are already abusing the FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out, for those not knowing) with all the events.

You also made nearly impossible for free players to get all the rewards of these events.

You made ridiculous achievements linked to these events (1000 events task means 40 differents events minimum, meaning 40 weeks of events. If we have an event every other week, it means 80 weeks, so 1 and an half year. And that's only if you can fulfill all the 25 tasks of each. If you are free player, you can easily need more than 2 years for that)

For several months, we got no real update

And now, you do a charity livestream, with an exclusive skin tied to 25$. WTF. If it was for 5$, and a big Ambers rewards for 25$, I would understand, but here, you know that a lot of regular players playing your game have a big FOMO and you abuse of that.

I better hope that the charity you support and what you send are rock solid.

[Shamahan]

My answer is 'Yes' to all of the statements above.

$25 for the banner - sure that might be a little steep, but the money is going towards a charity so I have no issues with pricing it that way.

[AccidentReport]

Not sure what the issue is really. I'm a free player having never purchased amber or VIP and I can end up getting all or nearly all rewards from the events.

As for the achievements, those are not ridiculous. They do exactly what is intended, to encourage people to keep playing and reward them. You want ridiculous go see the Serious achievements on Gears of War!

No real updates? I'd prefer small tweaks and fixes with only big updates every now and then so that it all works and has meaning.

End of the day this is a free game so if Shamahan puts things in in a way to get people to pay then why not. You saying they don't deserve money for a game you obviously like playing?

[ovni.demon]

Originally posted by AccidentReport:

Not sure what the issue is really. I'm a free player having never purchased amber or VIP and I can end up getting all or nearly all rewards from the events.

As for the achievements, those are not ridiculous. They do exactly what is intended, to encourage people to keep playing and reward them. You want ridiculous go see the Serious achievements on Gears of War!

No real updates? I'd prefer small tweaks and fixes with only big updates every now and then so that it all works and has meaning.

End of the day this is a free game so if Shamahan puts things in in a way to get people to pay then why not. You saying they don't deserve money for a game you obviously like playing?

I liked playing it, but not anymore, it became just a daily chore. And compared to a lot of other idle games, it's quite lacking on a lot of points, especially in the variety of contents.
Also, most other good idle games are not money predatory. That's my main concern.

In addition, having big updates doesn't mean that small updates don't happen. Outside the cosmetics of each events, the rest of the game is stale since quite a while: progressing in the Elixir tree takes a painful long time for little bonus; upgrading your pets also take a lot too much time, weekly challenge are repetitive and boring, ... There is no sense of progress since quite a few months.

I mean: compare that to Idle Slayer, which has a lot of similarity. It had a lot more substantial updates, while still continuing to fix bugs and tweaking balance. I also never add the sense that I needed to pay something. It has now less updates because it's near the endpoint in devlopment. But Tap Ninja, after not even 1 year of release, while having not that much content, is already having trouble adding content

I paid for quite a lot of idle game. But not because I needed to, but because the game deserved it. I already paid for Tap Ninja, because I though they would add more things in the future, that it will become something interesting. But now, I regret it.

As for the achievements: abusing of the FOMO to make player play repetitive events, is like putting player to do work instead of playing. Where is the fun? Where is the accomplishment? I understand long term "time playing" achievement, because they meant that you played the game for a long time, something you can be sort of proud, like claiming you are a veteran player. But achievement that require to do the same action too many times are never fun or fulfilling. You just become nauseous of the action after a time, it's just a chore. If the achievement was just obtaining every single event cosmetic, there would be some sense of accomplishement; or if it corresponded to 1 year of tasks. But that's not the case. Even if you do all the tasks, you will need to redo events, without even having the guarantee that new cosmetics will appear.

I understand daily tasks, since it's rewards for people playing actively; but they offer the choice to stop doing it if you have enough of it. You can stop for a few months are return when you want, without losing/missing anything. You can't do that for event: if you miss an event, outside of missing the cosmetic, you also miss an hard to earn stat for an achievement

[ovni.demon]

Originally posted by Profile Name:

Originally posted by ovni.demon:

First of all, you are already abusing the FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out, for those not knowing) with all the events.

That just means you should step away from the computer, take a break and rethink your life.

Not really fixing the issue with the game. I think it's the only idle game that I know that uses it so much
Plus, quite a lot of games, especially those having predatory tactics, use and abuse of the FOMO. Heck, it happens even in real life (everything that exclusive or limited use this. Black Friday is entirely based on that). I think that the majority of people have be subjected to the FOMO to various degree, it has been used by marketing since years and will continue in the future, since it's one of the tactics that work well.

[El Tamura]

Originally posted by ovni.demon:

First of all, you are already abusing the FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out, for those not knowing) with all the events.
You also made nearly impossible for free players to get all the rewards of these events.
You made ridiculous achievements linked to these events (1000 events task means 40 differents events minimum, meaning 40 weeks of events. If we have an event every other week, it means 80 weeks, so 1 and an half year. And that's only if you can fulfill all the 25 tasks of each. If you are free player, you can easily need more than 2 years for that)

How so? The events are tied to annual IRL events, meaning they'll come back next year, hat included. On top of that there's the fact that even completely F2P players are able to get the hat along a LOT of in-game currency and rewards EVERY event.
Is that even FOMO?

Originally posted by ovni.demon:

You made ridiculous achievements linked to these events (1000 events task means 40 differents events minimum, meaning 40 weeks of events. If we have an event every other week, it means 80 weeks, so 1 and an half year. And that's only if you can fulfill all the 25 tasks of each. If you are free player, you can easily need more than 2 years for that)

For how long do you play an idle game usually? Don't they also have really long term stuff to do? Like 1~2 year goals? If you want EVERY achievement in an IDLE game, that's something you'll have to put up with. Not saying it's necessarily good, but that comes with the genre.
My perspective as someone who can comfortably complete all objetives is that I kind of look forward to having stuff to do and a new hat every event.

Originally posted by ovni.demon:

I liked playing it, but not anymore, it became just a daily chore. And compared to a lot of other idle games, it's quite lacking on a lot of points, especially in the variety of contents.
Also, most other good idle games are not money predatory. That's my main concern.
In addition, having big updates doesn't mean that small updates don't happen. Outside the cosmetics of each events, the rest of the game is stale since quite a while: progressing in the Elixir tree takes a painful long time for little bonus; upgrading your pets also take a lot too much time, weekly challenge are repetitive and boring, ... There is no sense of progress since quite a few months.
[...]But Tap Ninja, after not even 1 year of release, while having not that much content, is already having trouble adding content

How long have you been playing this game? I've been playing since the introduction of pets and there were a LOT of QoL tweaks and bug fixes. IMHO that takes precedence over introduction of new content that might break everything.
I'd say that the game industry also warped our perception of how we expect content in a game when they knowingly release completely broken stuff so people don't complain about lack of content and abandon the trainwreck later without fixing bugs because no one cares anymore. Honestly, I'd rather take Shamahan's approach of slow and cautious development.

Originally posted by ovni.demon:

[...]most other good idle games are not money predatory. That's my main concern

How is this game "money predatory"? That's a genuine question. The ONLY thing behind a hard paywall is the CHARITY banner. Everything else can be bought with the in-game currency the game pratically SHOWERS you with.

[ovni.demon]

Originally posted by El Tamura:

Originally posted by ovni.demon:

First of all, you are already abusing the FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out, for those not knowing) with all the events.
You also made nearly impossible for free players to get all the rewards of these events.
You made ridiculous achievements linked to these events (1000 events task means 40 differents events minimum, meaning 40 weeks of events. If we have an event every other week, it means 80 weeks, so 1 and an half year. And that's only if you can fulfill all the 25 tasks of each. If you are free player, you can easily need more than 2 years for that)

How so? The events are tied to annual IRL events, meaning they'll come back next year, hat included. On top of that there's the fact that even completely F2P players are able to get the hat along a LOT of in-game currency and rewards EVERY event.
Is that even FOMO?

Originally posted by ovni.demon:

You made ridiculous achievements linked to these events (1000 events task means 40 differents events minimum, meaning 40 weeks of events. If we have an event every other week, it means 80 weeks, so 1 and an half year. And that's only if you can fulfill all the 25 tasks of each. If you are free player, you can easily need more than 2 years for that)

For how long do you play an idle game usually? Don't they also have really long term stuff to do? Like 1~2 year goals? If you want EVERY achievement in an IDLE game, that's something you'll have to put up with. Not saying it's necessarily good, but that comes with the genre.
My perspective as someone who can comfortably complete all objetives is that I kind of look forward to having stuff to do and a new hat every event.

Originally posted by ovni.demon:

I liked playing it, but not anymore, it became just a daily chore. And compared to a lot of other idle games, it's quite lacking on a lot of points, especially in the variety of contents.
Also, most other good idle games are not money predatory. That's my main concern.
In addition, having big updates doesn't mean that small updates don't happen. Outside the cosmetics of each events, the rest of the game is stale since quite a while: progressing in the Elixir tree takes a painful long time for little bonus; upgrading your pets also take a lot too much time, weekly challenge are repetitive and boring, ... There is no sense of progress since quite a few months.
[...]But Tap Ninja, after not even 1 year of release, while having not that much content, is already having trouble adding content

How long have you been playing this game? I've been playing since the introduction of pets and there were a LOT of QoL tweaks and bug fixes. IMHO that takes precedence over introduction of new content that might break everything.
I'd say that the game industry also warped our perception of how we expect content in a game when they knowingly release completely broken stuff so people don't complain about lack of content and abandon the trainwreck later without fixing bugs because no one cares anymore. Honestly, I'd rather take Shamahan's approach of slow and cautious development.

Originally posted by ovni.demon:

[...]most other good idle games are not money predatory. That's my main concern

How is this game "money predatory"? That's a genuine question. The ONLY thing behind a hard paywall is the CHARITY banner. Everything else can be bought with the in-game currency the game pratically SHOWERS you with.

1) Yes it's yearly, but there are so much events that even if it's yearly, you need to come at the correct week. And making an event yearly doesn't remove the FOMO, just reduce it. If you miss the exclusive reward, you need to wait a year, and you need to remember it. Since event only last a week, you can easily miss it. Also, as far as we know, we have no guarantee that cosmetic will return. (Btw, the devs agreed with all my points, so them too agree it's using FOMO)
2) Hence my point about time playing. Time playing are long term achievement but only require you to play, nothing else. I have a few idle games that I stopped playing for a while because I grew bored of them. When I return, I can gain more time playing where I left off and I can play at my pace. I grew bored of Tap Ninja since quite a few months but I know that if I stop playing, it will be hard to get these events achievements because 1) they require to play actively; 2) you need to be at the correct week.
At the same time, long term achievement should give you a certain sense of accomplishment (reaching the highest prestige level for example). Here, fulfilling the same easy but time consuming tasks again and again for 40 weeks isn't fulfilling.
3) I played since release too (or at the very least quite early). There was frequent improvement at the start, and it was why I payed VIP. Since the start of the year, we got no real content update, and it was already starting to get stale at this point.
It's an idle game, if you constantly need to do the same things with little to no progress, the game stops being fun and become just a chore. Idle games work because you get a sense of fulfilment while progressing in it. But when the progress become so slow that it kills all motivation, the fulfilment part is also gone. The fulfilment part also disappears when the gameplay become too repetitive and lack varieties. It's also one of the reason that "Clicker Heroes" and "Adventure Captalist" got a bad players retention while being quite famous. The start is extremely fulfilling, with progress being very fast, with a lot of new options coming fast. But after a while, the gameplay become stale, even if you progress. Each prestige involves doing the exact same thing without changing anything. Tap Ninja was able to avoid that only because they put weekly event, but as said before, it's using FOMO to keep the players, so not exactly better.

4) a)You have a constant warning/pop up about the pet pack (that I already bought btw)
b) Completing all the tasks of an event incite you to get premium currency
c) You need quite a lot of of premium currency to get all premium passives (and they give a substantial bonus)
d) You have a gacha using premium currencies with abysmal odds (Just reaching tier 10, with the main bonus of each pet is already quite difficult. And there are still higher levels)

The game isn't exacty showering us in Ambers. When daily tasks was introduced, it was a sufficent rate: not to high but not too low either. But since the pet introduction, the lack of Ambers can really be felt.
I don't say it a money hungry game like most gacha or freemium game. But if you compare it to most good idle games, it is more money predatory.

Also, I wish to repeat: the devs agreed with all my statements, so he recognize everything I said

[El Tamura]

1) This is a live service game, more updates/content will keep coming. If you miss an event and decide for some reason to stop playing it until next year, you will miss many other things. You either play continuously and eventually get everything or don't.
I'd be nice to ask Shamahan if the cosmetics are always coming back with the respective events so the point don't stay moot. Alas, I don't use Discord nor Twitch.

2) You can play all idle games at your pace, including Tap Ninja. Just don't expect to be on par content-wise with people who kept playing everyday/week. That's just fair.
If you grow bored of a game/are not having fun/don't think it's fulfilling enough and stop playing, that's ok, but some other people still do, will keep playing and should be rewarded accordingly.
I, for instance, still like seing NINJA CUT CUT, NUMBER GO BIG and QUEST BLINK BLINK while I answer e-mails or whatever. Even after 6 months of this.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like new things to do, but I understand the development speed of this game and I'm enjoying it for what it is.

3) What is fulfilling will vary from people-to-people. It seems you get fulfilled by progressing rapidly and by novelty. But there's so much content a developer can output before you play it all and it gets "stale" again. Therein lies the issue.
AFAIK Shamahan is currently working on the "Elixir Update" to remedy lots of complaints about the current elixir grind. So new content take a backseat and make some other people unhappy. I think the implementation of all those events was a way to satisfy somewhat people that wanted new things to do.

4) a) While it's kind of annoying, it's only at the start of the application and you don't even have to click it, so I don't really mind;
b, c) I think that's intentional. You use gems to buy the upgrades from the shop and achieve the event goals at the same time.
d) You can upgrade your favorite pet to level 10 with tokens you get for free in events/repeats from the gacha at a reasonable pace. Also, is there any reason to go beyond level 10 or an alternative for this system that's not equally bad?

How many ambers we get per month? 3~4k+? That's pretty generous to me considering there's nothing behind a cash paywall. Uh... albeit the now Charity banner.

And isn't FOMO more akin to a pathology of some kind? There's a line between psychologically manipulating someone through veiled threats of social rejection/inferiority complex/anxiety and just incentives to keep playing that's clearly hasn't been crossed here. If we deviate too much from it's original meaning, even the concept of bonus stages, loot rarity system or anything that rewards you for playing further enter the FOMO category as predatory and I don't think that's what the creator of the expression meant.

Btw, what games are you referring to as "good idle games" without predatory microtransactions? I'm looking for one to play on the cellphone myself lol. I've been playing Bistro Heroes for 2,5 years and ironically enough, it is getting kinda stale for me.

[ovni.demon]

1) Great, you just demonstrated yourself that it was using FOMO. If you need to play continuously to get everything, it's using FOMO, no need to look further.

2) My point is that if you stop playing Tap Ninja, you won't be able (or maybe you will still be able but with a lot higher difficulty) to get the 100%. For example, I stop playing Idle slayer and Realm Grinder for quite a few months. If I return to it, I know that I will not be at the same level than the continuous player; but I also know that I won't have to worry about missing something. I can take my pace without worrying. In Tap Ninja, if you aim for the 100%, you need to constantly worry about the event weeks.

3) I am not really fulfilled by rapid progress. But when the progress halt to a grind, I don't think anyone will ever say it's fulfilling. I am in the last few upgrades of the Elixir Tree but I need so many reset to get them that it became just a chore to get them. And it's not even a wall like some Idle games (a difficult and hard to reach ceiling but reaching it smooth out the progress after for a little bit). If I want to compare: a wall is like climbing a mountain: it's hard and slow but you know when you reach the summit and you get an easier time to climb down and you get the motivation to climb the next peak. In Tap Ninja, the last few bit just feel like a swamp. You walk at a snail pace and don't see the end.
As for the novelty part, I think also everybody can agree: you can only do the same thing again and again before it stops being fun and become a chore. And if you read the negative review on Adventure Capitalist or Clicker Heroes, you will see that I am not the only ones. It doesn't need to be something totally different but it still need to feel sufficently new that you stop feeling that you keep doing the same thing.

4)a) Some announcemnt have the same icon. So you need to click it to be sure you didn't miss anything
b) c) I never said it wasn't intentional but I often need to spend Ambers on 1-time premium that I don't need just to reach the quota, because buying 2 permanent would cost to much. It also the first time I have ever seen a game (any genre) where the event task requires you to use premium currency. I have seen some of them encouraging you to use premium currency to reach the goals, but not outright asking to spend currencies.
d)I know that, but even that is hard to reach. I play since quite a while but I still only have half of my pets at level 10.

FOMO lead effectively to psychological manipulation. Like I said, marketing discovered this since quite a few years and use it in nearly anything. "Don't MISS OUT the time-LIMITED discount"; "EXCLUSIVE reward if you pre-order"; "An ONE AND UNIQUE show NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN"; ...
Basically, everytime a product insist that there is a limit of any sort, it will trigger a reaction of worrying about missing an opportunity. This tendency is known since quite a while (if you ever had been to a market, the number of times you hear the "don't miss out" is always funny), but since marketing appeared, it became a lot more sophisticated.
And it's only half-pathological: there are severe cases that need conseling; but everybody has it (except maybe a few people mentally trained like monks).
Imagine: you are an hunter in the forest, you got enough preys to survive comfortably. Then you see a magnificent and once in a lifetime prey that will allow you to live lavishly for quite a while. However, you would need to tread treacherous paths to reach it. Do you think most hunters will take the risks? Yes they will, because they know/fear that this opportunity will never return. It's the FOMO kicking. (Taken from a lesson I had about it).
The fear of missing something that will never return is nearly instinctive, even some animals display the tendency.
I can bet that you also had been influenced by it, even without you realizing it, because it appear in a lot of situation (another common example: "She/he can be the one for me")

As for bonus stage, loot rarity and the like: you don't feel that you will an one in a while/lifetime opportunity. Also, since these rely on luck, it isn't triggered before it happens. It can trigger the FOMO in certain condition (ex: encountering a shiny in pokemon) but it only trigger it when the event occur, not before that, because it was unannounced. When a limited event is announced, it will trigger the FOMO since the moment it was announced.

As for good idle games, sorry but I play on PC. On PC, I can recommend you Realm Grinder; Idle Wizard; NGU Idle (this one is a must on PC); Cell to Singularity (a bit more mixed about this one. There are good ideas in the presentation, but the gameplay isn't there IMO); Cookie clicker (not free on Steam but free on browser); Soda Dungeon; Soda Dungeon 2, Idle Slayer, Leaf blower revolution
I have a few other idle games that I play but aren't good enough to be recommended in my opinion (like Zombidle).
For smartphone, except Idle Slayer, I have no idea, sorry.
(Btw: NGU idle, Soda Dungeon 1 and 2: devlopment complete; Realm Grinder and Cookie clicker: end of devlopment (so few updates))
(And before you compare them to Tap Ninja: these are games that had years of active devlopment before, with regular updates. At some point, yes, the devs need to pass to another game. Exception for the Soda dungeon, but they are oddballs. They are a mix between dungeon crawler and idle game. Play it to understand what I mean)

[El Tamura]

1/2) I think we are not completely understanding each other here.
My point is that you need to play every game continously to get everything. Nothing is really lost forever in Tap Ninja and you'll eventually have another opportunity to 100%. You just have to look at the bigger picture and have a different time scale.
I never played Idle Slayer, but Realm Grinder have events that also gives buffs, making it worse if you missed one, by what you are trying to convey. Some even happen every 2 years if I'm not mistaken, been a long time since I played it.
In the end you won't miss anything forever is both cases.

3) Maybe I've got so accustomed to grinding in old crusty korean MMOs that repetition and snail pace progress really don't bother me lol. But then, there's a roadmap and Shamahan been kinda vocal(could be more IMHO) that there's new things coming up, so I'm not at all worried about content. We just have to chill and wait a bit.

4)a) Fair enough. In retrospective I use an adblocker on my browser so can't say anything about not wanting annoying stuff pop up.
b~c) That's also fair. There was a ruckus when the first event came with that amber expenditure objective and Shamahan held his ground. I'm assuming it was needed and the numbers corroborate his decision. He is dedicating a lot of his time to this game and need to be paid after all.
d) I've playing for 6 months, opened like 1200 eggs, used most of my "promotion tokens" and have 4 level 10 pets, the rest are 6~9 stars. Shamahan also said there would be more ways to get pets/evolve then, so there's that.

I used to work for a company that developed games that aided people with mental disabilities. Most of them would get bored and stop playing after a while so we had to implement ways to incentivize them to continue with the treatment. One caveat our boss was adamant about is that we didn't want them to become addicted to the game.
That's when we had to do a lot of research about psychological manipulation and good practices in gaming.
I see where you are coming from and your obviously good intentions towards fair monetization. I just feel it's kinda pernicious to the whole discussion when we put so many things in the FOMO category when the term was created to identify malign design used by scummy companies like ActBlizz or Zynga to vacuum money from people that don't know any better. Is it really comparable to what's happening here?

I was secretly hoping you'd knew some weird obscure amazing idle game hahaha. I played most of those and some didn't really click for me. Cookie Clicker took 1k+ hours to finish(for now) and I'm genuinely scared of how long it would take to finish NGU idle, a friend of mine has 6,5k hours and is still going. Really appreciate all the suggestions though, thanks.
Guess I'll try Melvor Idle or Kittens Game on the phone next.

[Plüschtiger]

Originally posted by El Tamura:

1/2)
I see where you are coming from and your obviously good intentions towards fair monetization. I just feel it's kinda pernicious to the whole discussion when we put so many things in the FOMO category when the term was created to identify malign design used by scummy companies like ActBlizz or Zynga to vacuum money from people that don't know any better. Is it really comparable to what's happening here?

I was secretly hoping you'd knew some weird obscure amazing idle game hahaha. I played most of those and some didn't really click for me. Cookie Clicker took 1k+ hours to finish(for now) and I'm genuinely scared of how long it would take to finish NGU idle, a friend of mine has 6,5k hours and is still going. Really appreciate all the suggestions though, thanks.
Guess I'll try Melvor Idle or Kittens Game on the phone next.

However, the exploitation of human weaknesses remains and is therefore morally questionable. The fact that it is ultimately also about charity makes it doubly questionable. Solo developers, this and that and that doesn't justify everything.

Cookie Clicker is also a good example. The game costs money and still has 10,000 players. Tap Ninja just about 3000, which means Cookie Clicker does something better. (translated)

[ovni.demon]

Originally posted by El Tamura:

1/2) I think we are not completely understanding each other here.
My point is that you need to play every game continously to get everything. Nothing is really lost forever in Tap Ninja and you'll eventually have another opportunity to 100%. You just have to look at the bigger picture and have a different time scale.
I never played Idle Slayer, but Realm Grinder have events that also gives buffs, making it worse if you missed one, by what you are trying to convey. Some even happen every 2 years if I'm not mistaken, been a long time since I played it.
In the end you won't miss anything forever is both cases.

3) Maybe I've got so accustomed to grinding in old crusty korean MMOs that repetition and snail pace progress really don't bother me lol. But then, there's a roadmap and Shamahan been kinda vocal(could be more IMHO) that there's new things coming up, so I'm not at all worried about content. We just have to chill and wait a bit.

4)a) Fair enough. In retrospective I use an adblocker on my browser so can't say anything about not wanting annoying stuff pop up.
b~c) That's also fair. There was a ruckus when the first event came with that amber expenditure objective and Shamahan held his ground. I'm assuming it was needed and the numbers corroborate his decision. He is dedicating a lot of his time to this game and need to be paid after all.
d) I've playing for 6 months, opened like 1200 eggs, used most of my "promotion tokens" and have 4 level 10 pets, the rest are 6~9 stars. Shamahan also said there would be more ways to get pets/evolve then, so there's that.

I used to work for a company that developed games that aided people with mental disabilities. Most of them would get bored and stop playing after a while so we had to implement ways to incentivize them to continue with the treatment. One caveat our boss was adamant about is that we didn't want them to become addicted to the game.
That's when we had to do a lot of research about psychological manipulation and good practices in gaming.
I see where you are coming from and your obviously good intentions towards fair monetization. I just feel it's kinda pernicious to the whole discussion when we put so many things in the FOMO category when the term was created to identify malign design used by scummy companies like ActBlizz or Zynga to vacuum money from people that don't know any better. Is it really comparable to what's happening here?

I was secretly hoping you'd knew some weird obscure amazing idle game hahaha. I played most of those and some didn't really click for me. Cookie Clicker took 1k+ hours to finish(for now) and I'm genuinely scared of how long it would take to finish NGU idle, a friend of mine has 6,5k hours and is still going. Really appreciate all the suggestions though, thanks.
Guess I'll try Melvor Idle or Kittens Game on the phone next.

Sorry for the very late reply:
1 and 2) Realm grinder do have events with permanent bonus. But the bonus are extremely small and the requirements for the events are extremely easy (just need to collect ressources once every 12 hours). And except the special seasonal badges (that are extremely easy to get), it's a generic bonus.
In opposite, you can easily miss the exclusive skin in Tap Ninja if you are not active enough.
(Also every Realm grinder events return every year)

3) Problem is that he is already behind roadmap. And dev promises mean little until he proves he can fulfill them. In addition, I think we can safely say that Tap Ninja isn't amongst the most advanced on the technical side. So if there is already struggle at this point, the future is quite bleak.

4) Naturally, the FOMO is not on the same scale. And fortunately. But it's still on a bigger scale that you may think. Individually, each event doesn't trigger FOMO that much, the problem is that it's nearly constant. If there was on event by month with the exact same formula (1 week length, ...), I would be more or less okay. But you have 1 event every week or other week.
It's one of the 2 tactics that FOMO marketing use: one is something big that you will regret if you miss out; the other is to overload the customer by constantly putting thing that he will regret a little if missing. Once he started, he will have the mentality of "I am already in it, better continue it". And be it that he started or not, the anxiety of missing something will accumulate.
This strategy is often less used because it has a big flaw : if the flow of release is slowed down, the anxiety will decrease and the customer may realize that he was used.

[Lonk]

I understand the FOMO angle as a free player, I really do, but I also understand I can manage most events overall, at least enough to get whatever hat is tied to them. It was tough earlier on and I definitely missed out on some until I played more of the game and built up enough to accomplish more and I can understand the frustrations of that but I don't really feel it's malicious or anything in nature. I do wish the game would stop nagging me with the little popup to buy so and so occasionally, at least.