Why do people dislike Part II so much?

[ClearlyHopeless]

I'm curious as to the actual reasons people dislike part 2. I know a lot of people didn't like Joel dying which, while understandable, isn't really a criticism of the game. The story wasn't as good as the first game, most video game stories aren't, but it was still pretty good and had it's own message. I've also noticed a lot of people mentioning some kind of "agenda" that the game creators were trying to push, but I don't see that either. Ellie was already confirmed gay by the first game, buff women exist, and there is a trans boy in the game who is one of my personal favorite characters from the game. The game/plot never stops to display some kind of agenda, these are just people living in this world. If the game just wasn't for you I can understand, but I haven't heard people actually say why they disliked this game, usually it's just "part 2 sucks" and nothing more. So, if you dislike Part II please tell me why and ideally have it be as specific as possible

EDIT: I'd like to make some amendments to my previous statements. I have heard enough people mention some good enough points for disliking Joel's death that I consider it a valid criticism IF your reasons hold water. The buff women thing is also contested as someone has pointed out that she may be too big considering it's an apocalypse but I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not. I've also noticed a lot of the "agenda" crowd is very obviously just anti-whatever group of people, one going so far as to call it a "Jewish dystopia" for featuring a Jewish character. However, one user pointed out to me that there may be some Israeli politics in the game which, since I don't know much about that situation, is all I'll comment on. This thread has become more of a discussion about Part II between those who liked it and didn't like it and I'm fine with that. Just know that going in. :)

[StuckInWashingMachine]

Nice photo of jinx.
I hated the game because the game failed to live up to its hype. Plain and simple. Neil tried so hard to accomplished what he had in the first game and miss fired. He tried to make an ending that was as memorable as the first one but also have it service his passion for revenge stories. He's like squidward in a sense, bit of a narcissist thinking that all of his ideas were great, and since the first game was so successful if he got rid of his writer's room and have complete control of the story board, he'd end up with a master piece.

I don't really blame him personally though for not living up to my expectation, if anything it was my most hyped game of all time. Game was literally half-life. It was a cinematic movie game with servicable gameplay in a linear format. I hate open world games, but I love action sandbox games with just a little bit of survival rescource-mangement. Gameplay wise it was sort of like Dead Space, Resident Evil, Metro, Condemned Criminal Origins, and Prey. All games that I lean towards.

I think most people who hate this game are just people who either hate the.... stuff im not suppose to talk about on steam forums... The LGBT stuff, I personally didn't care for the fact that Abby was a butch, who cares really, I don't hate people because they are women, Abby has a right to exist, a woman can be muscular, alot of people who deny her existence have never been to an LA fitness I imagine
on another note I actually didn't even know that Lev was a you-know-what until I read reviews. Somehow I missed it in my first playthrough, but regardless that whole business with abby's rescueing him was really forgettable and wasn't all that compelling if I'ma be honest.
And I also found Dina and Ellie's relationship to be really immature and forgettable. I hated Dina for various reasons, how little flaws she has and how unlikeable she is as a person.
I forgave Ellie many times because I understood the pain that she was going through and didn't find myself rooting for abby at all. Ellie is in pain, Abby is also still in pain because she's realizing that getting revenge wasn't exactly giving her piece.
So like what, she attempt to save a few kids in hopes that she can redeam herself and like herself, saving herself as a character. That's very noble of you Abby, but I waited seven years to see Joel and Ellie have their adventure continue and only for you to Cuck me over it was going to take alot more then to save one irrelevant kid for me to actually care about you.
I mean guess that's why most people felt so mcuh narrative distant from this story. There were so many times where people felt as though Neil drunkmen expected them to care about abby, but like.... I mean... this isn't her story.
She hasn't earned a right to take the screen away from what originally got everyone invested into this series.

[perc 40]

Because youtubers told them to. Most people who ♥♥♥♥ talk the 2nd game never even played it

[Major_Tom]

for me its the dogs. the game uses them to cheaply emotionally manipulate the player. part 2 is one and done. i cant relive the trauma

[Valadhiel0820]

Originally posted by perc 40:

Because youtubers told them to. Most people who ♥♥♥♥ talk the 2nd game never even played it

well, I do, bought and sold the PS4 Pro at the same time and both reason also cause of that ♥♥♥♥ Part 2...people who really love Part 1 like me, mostly gonna hate the Part 2 for real, what we expect is the continuous journey of Joel and Ellie, but what they gave us is another boring ♥♥♥♥ of revenge route, and I really regret after seeing Abby, my eyes are dirty now

[amara]

Even if you don't like the story, the gameplay is 10/10. Legitimately one of the best TPS ever

[sick duck]

All of the third person shooters feel the same to me.

[JackPool]

Originally posted by gurkamar:

Even if you don't like the story, the gameplay is 10/10. Legitimately one of the best TPS ever

+1

[ClearlyHopeless]

Originally posted by Valadhiel0820:

Originally posted by perc 40:

Because youtubers told them to. Most people who ♥♥♥♥ talk the 2nd game never even played it

well, I do, bought and sold the PS4 Pro at the same time and both reason also cause of that ♥♥♥♥ Part 2...people who really love Part 1 like me, mostly gonna hate the Part 2 for real, what we expect is the continuous journey of Joel and Ellie, but what they gave us is another boring ♥♥♥♥ of revenge route, and I really regret after seeing Abby, my eyes are dirty now

From the ending of the first game it could be inferred that Joel and Ellie were probably going to have a falling out eventually, I mean Ellie 100% knew he was lying to her at the end. I would have loved more Joel and Ellie adventures and we get that with some of the flashbacks, but that wasn't the story they wanted to tell. I don't think it's a fair criticism to say that "X wasn't what I wanted so it's bad". I think you have to judge a piece of media based on what it is and I think it succeeded in what it was trying to do even if it definitely had some flaws. I'm also curious what your problems with Abby were?

[ClearlyHopeless]

Originally posted by Kix:

Nice photo of jinx.
I hated the game because the game failed to live up to its hype. Plain and simple. Neil tried so hard to accomplished what he had in the first game and miss fired. He tried to make an ending that was as memorable as the first one but also have it service his passion for revenge stories. He's like squidward in a sense, bit of a narcissist thinking that all of his ideas were great, and since the first game was so successful if he got rid of his writer's room and have complete control of the story board, he'd end up with a master piece.

I don't really blame him personally though for not living up to my expectation, if anything it was my most hyped game of all time. Game was literally half-life. It was a cinematic movie game with servicable gameplay in a linear format. I hate open world games, but I love action sandbox games with just a little bit of survival rescource-mangement. Gameplay wise it was sort of like Dead Space, Resident Evil, Metro, Condemned Criminal Origins, and Prey. All games that I lean towards.

I think most people who hate this game are just people who either hate the.... stuff im not suppose to talk about on steam forums... The LGBT stuff, I personally didn't care for the fact that Abby was a butch, who cares really, I don't hate people because they are women, Abby has a right to exist, a woman can be muscular, alot of people who deny her existence have never been to an LA fitness I imagine
on another note I actually didn't even know that Lev was a you-know-what until I read reviews. Somehow I missed it in my first playthrough, but regardless that whole business with abby's rescueing him was really forgettable and wasn't all that compelling if I'ma be honest.
And I also found Dina and Ellie's relationship to be really immature and forgettable. I hated Dina for various reasons, how little flaws she has and how unlikeable she is as a person.
I forgave Ellie many times because I understood the pain that she was going through and didn't find myself rooting for abby at all. Ellie is in pain, Abby is also still in pain because she's realizing that getting revenge wasn't exactly giving her piece.
So like what, she attempt to save a few kids in hopes that she can redeam herself and like herself, saving herself as a character. That's very noble of you Abby, but I waited seven years to see Joel and Ellie have their adventure continue and only for you to Cuck me over it was going to take alot more then to save one irrelevant kid for me to actually care about you.
I mean guess that's why most people felt so mcuh narrative distant from this story. There were so many times where people felt as though Neil drunkmen expected them to care about abby, but like.... I mean... this isn't her story.
She hasn't earned a right to take the screen away from what originally got everyone invested into this series.

That is probably the biggest problem with the game in my eyes as it really relies on you connecting with or at the very least understanding Abby. It worked for me and by the end I didn't want her nor Ellie to die but not everyone felt that way and that would definitely have lessened the experience. I never rooted for Abby against Ellie but I would root for Abby if it was against anyone else because she really did want to try and do what was right by the end. Naturally, I wanted Ellie to win whenever they came into contact because I love Ellie as a character. And while I think the Abby/Lev thing was kind of just Joel and Ellie but worse, they still had some nice moments and interactions to keep me invested in their journey.

[penfoldini]

Dude, put a spoiler mask on that post, some people are new to the entire IP

[aleee]

Also, the thing about the agenda isn't that a buff woman or that or whatever don't exist. Those people exist but all of them in a very small percentage. So, when you have a post-apocalyptic setting with a handful of people left and concidentally there's 1 of each of those very rare group of people... you know it's on purpose and that's why it's an agenda. You know the characters were designed from being those things and not the other way around, characters that just happen to be something.

Regardless tho, this is The Last of Us 1 and why is a 10 years old game being sold for full price?

[hammerstar]

You think killing off a beloved character isn't a criticism of the game?

Then let's go with killing off a beloved character in an utterly humiliating and degrading way, and then forcing you to play as his murderer for over half the game while she goes on psychotic killing sprees, delighting in carnage and destruction all the way, and then at the end expecting you to sympathize with her and want her to survive when in reality wanting anything except seeing her brains painted across a wall for her crimes is utterly insane.

[Blacksmyth Zephlyn]

Reasons why I didn't like Part 2 (Personal Opinion)(SPOILERS)

1: Story revolves around two polar opposites of the same coin having a theme of "Revenge is bad" yet completely throws it out the window in favor of one character over another. Abby wanting revenge for Joel killing her father? Understandable. Abby completely mutilating Joel with a golf club for the sake of avenging her father? No, could'ove just shot him but they gotta be over the top about it for shock value and completely making her revenge story unjustifiable.

2: Characters from the previous game all have had their personalities completely changed all for the sake of plot or "Darker Story". I absolutely do not buy that Joel changed or softened up because of his time in Jackson and with Ellie. Hell it even shows flashbacks of Joel still following his safety survival rules but for the sake of plot it all gets completely thrown out the window.

3: New characters are either uninteresting or unlikable and their character arcs ultimately felt pointless......kinda like what Disney did to Star Wars.

4: Story relies way too much on Plot convenience that sucks you right out of the immersion.
If I am able to just say "You know this person could just kill me right now and all their problems would be over." or "Now what are the odds of all this happening?" over and over and over again then it's really difficult to really care or get invested about what's going on and just turn my brain on auto-pilot because I just don't care anymore.

Few Examples (add more if you wish):
Abby being saved by Joel and Tommy just as she was about to die. Joel would never save a random person especially if they're surrounded by infected, too risky for him.

Abby finding out about Joel's location because a group of Tommy's buddies from the fireflies who he hasn't seen in years just happen to spill the beans (for some reason) and Abby overhears it.


Nick not killing Ellie or even letting his buddy do it under orders and when Nick has Dina and Ellie in his clutches, instead of just shooting them both like any sane person would do he just wastes his chance and gets killed for it.

So many ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ scenes of characters getting saved just as they are about to die in such stupid ways for such stupid reasons. Why would Lev and Yara save Abby from getting hanged? Just because they aren't with the serraphites (scars) anymore doesn't mean they would just save a WLF.

How does Abby even know anything about Joel? She never saw him, know his name or know what he looks like. Yea you could say Marlene may have said something to her about him but very important details like that were never shown.

Ellie leaving her map at the aquarium for Abby to find so she can pinpoint her location.......just so stupid.



5: Half of the game is playing as a character that the game is DESPERATELY trying to get you to like but it just never worked for me. Yeah her gameplay is pretty fun but the more I played her and got to know her, the more I couldn't stand her and even Mel called her out on her ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. She's a complete hypocrite, arrogant, gaslights Owen a lot and tries to get with Owen when she knows very well he's with Mel. She's a flawed character I get that but if the game tries so desperately hard to get me to like her or reason with then pull in all this BS she does against her friends it becomes very difficult. Also she killed Joel in such an unnecessary way so that doesn't help her out....


6: If at the final fight were you're playing against Ellie as Abby and all I want to do is get Abby killed by Ellie over and over and over and over again, then I'm afraid you failed at narrative and character progression to try to get me the player to side with Abby.

Also why the ♥♥♥♥ does Ellie fall for the bottle distraction that Abby does to get behind her and do damage when she's been doing that exact same thing to other people for god knows how long? You would think after the first time she wouldn't fall for it but nope she falls for it multiple times.
Damn, even the Mr. Freeze fight in Batman Arkham City all the back in 2011 was done much better than this.

7: I could come up with a better story in a matter of a few days using the same themes and ideas this game uses without having to rely on plot convenience
and get people to better understand why Abby killed Joel in a much better outcome and even siding with her as she did it. That's the thing this story could've been told in a far superior way but it just ended up feeling like a convoluted mess.

Still enjoyed the gameplay though. Sorry for the essay.

"Their was a sequel...wasn't as good." -Joel

[ToasterRobber]

the buff woman criticism is just sexism and retarded, but the game just doesn't have strong writing
the characters weren't strongly written, they didn't feel like they had any sort of depth or level to care about them besides a cliff note, and it was slow paced on the kind of level that doesn't feel methodical and interesting and just unfun and boring
i do think there is a good message here, as well as good elements and ideas to support it, but along with what's previously mentioned, there's many choices in the story that are questionable and can't work remotely as well
there's reasons to like the game, but they don't even feel present because of it's issues, and i flat out can't recommend the game to anyone because of its pace

[Colonel Death]

2 is better than 1