About the story (spoilers)

[Corso]

SPOILERS

So Joel decides to save Ellie instead of the entire human race with a cure.
He lies to Ellie to save their relationship that she becomes suspect of.
JoelSisters, is Joel actually a bad guy by the end? Does he really choose his own need to protect a daughter figure over the entirety of mankind?
Does he really lie to Ellie?

I never played TLOU 2 btw, never wanted to play as the ... girl... who beats Joel to death with a golf club. Truly I wouldn't do it even if he deserved it.
But JoelSisters, is Joel really deserving of his end?

[SimplyFinn]

It wasnt guaranteed that they qould be able to make a vaccine from ellies cordyceps so theres that. Also the vaccine would eventually run out so they would have safed a couple infected people for the life of a 15 year old girl. In the end you have to decide for yourself what you think about Joel, the game doesnt want to portray Joel as straight up evil or straight up good. Its morrally grey and thats what people liked about this game.

I wont spoiler but thats also part of the reason why people disliked part 2, it was less morally grey and more of a "those are the baddies" kinda story

There are multiple very good videos on youtube analyzing Joels final decision so you can decide for yourself, maybe give them a watch :)

[Devsman]

The question of whether Joel is a bad person is irrelevant. That was kind of the point of the story. Everyone who cares about right/wrong or being a good person dies. The point is, he did what he had to do to survive. There's more to it too, of course, about dealing with loss and such. Though if you want my opinion, yes, he is a terrible person.

And yes, he does lie. Some people who don't know how to read think there's a lore thing you can find in the hospital that states there were other immunes, but here's what it actually says:

April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.

We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Devsman:

The question of whether Joel is a bad person is irrelevant. That was kind of the point of the story. Everyone who cares about right/wrong or being a good person dies. The point is, he did what he had to do to survive. There's more to it too, of course, about dealing with loss and such. Though if you want my opinion, yes, he is a terrible person.

And yes, he does lie. Some people who don't know how to read think there's a lore thing you can find in the hospital that states there were other immunes, but here's what it actually says:

April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.

We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain.

Btw. from a biological standpoint this is really "weird". It rather hints at the possibility that the fireflies have gotten it wrong. What is described here with the normal white blood cell count and the missing inflammation shows that there is no strong immune reaction in Ellie, meaning she is not fighting her parasite. It seems rather that parasite and host have reached a more aggreeable state of existence for both sides there.

In conclusion it seems that Ellie is rather infected by a weaker strain of cordyceps than being special (having some inherent immunity). So what is special is the Cordyceps not Ellie and the very state of "weak infection" might protect her against the more aggressive forms.
From this point of view it would have been impossible to develop any kind of more traditional vaccine from Ellie, especially not from cutting up her head.

In consequence they simply need to get blood samples (high antigen count) grow the fungus and try to infect animals and then humans if this works. Of course doing genetical background analysis of different strains of cordyceps might help to get full understanding :).

Any other interpretation makes little sense from a scientific perspective.

Fun aspect: They say Ellies blood shows infectious potential in the lab----> Ellie is infectious and possibly very dangerous to others. She should be able to infect other people by biting and/or body fluids. Perhaps she just needs to bite everyone :). This actually underscores my interpretation.... .

As somebody working in biological research I found the story a little silly overall (how the people behaved in the face of biological threat and the game presented the dangers), but this bit at the end broke it a little for me. They could have done much better there because this description made the whole end with the surgery a little pointless. They just would have needed better scientists in the story and the developers better council perhaps. I get that such things are done for story reasons, but still it can be done much more convincing.

[Devsman]

Originally posted by Zephyr:

Originally posted by Devsman:

The question of whether Joel is a bad person is irrelevant. That was kind of the point of the story. Everyone who cares about right/wrong or being a good person dies. The point is, he did what he had to do to survive. There's more to it too, of course, about dealing with loss and such. Though if you want my opinion, yes, he is a terrible person.

And yes, he does lie. Some people who don't know how to read think there's a lore thing you can find in the hospital that states there were other immunes, but here's what it actually says:

Btw. from a biological standpoint this is really "weird". It rather hints at the possibility that the fireflies have gotten it wrong. What is described here with the normal white blood cell count and the missing inflammation shows that there is no strong immune reaction in Ellie, meaning she is not fighting her parasite. It seems rather that parasite and host have reached a more aggreeable state of existence for both sides there.

In conclusion it seems that Ellie is rather infected by a weaker strain of cordyceps than being special (having some inherent immunity). So what is special is the Cordyceps not Ellie and the very state of "weak infection" might protect her against the more aggressive forms.
From this point of view it would have been impossible to develop any kind of more traditional vaccine from Ellie, especially not from cutting up her head.

In consequence they simply need to get blood samples (high antigen count) grow the fungus and try to infect animals and then humans if this works. Of course doing genetical background analysis of different strains of cordyceps might help to get full understanding :).

Any other interpretation makes little sense from a scientific perspective.

Fun aspect: They say Ellies blood shows infectious potential in the lab----> Ellie is infectious and possibly very dangerous to others. She should be able to infect other people by biting and/or body fluids. Perhaps she just needs to bite everyone :). This actually underscores my interpretation.... .

As somebody working in biological research I found the story a little silly overall (how the people behaved in the face of biological threat and the game presented the dangers), but this bit at the end broke it a little for me. They could have done much better there because this description made the whole end with the surgery a little pointless. They just would have needed better scientists in the story and the developers better council perhaps. I get that such things are done for story reasons, but still it can be done much more convincing.

Interesting info. I've never really been into biology. I think bad science is kind of par for the course with speculative fiction, though. Even the king of hard sci-fi (in my book) Michael Crichton made some footnotes in a novel or two that said something like "any real scientist who knows about this stuff would laugh at this."

Anyway, I've thought of the "have Ellie bit people" solution before. Kinda funny.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Devsman:

Interesting info. I've never really been into biology. I think bad science is kind of par for the course with speculative fiction, though. Even the king of hard sci-fi (in my book) Michael Crichton made some footnotes in a novel or two that said something like "any real scientist who knows about this stuff would laugh at this."

Anyway, I've thought of the "have Ellie bit people" solution before. Kinda funny.

Yes, almost all pandemic themed movies/games etc. are quite terrible at this. I suppose to make things easier. Still I never undestood why people get infected when bitten in zombie movies (or in TLOU) but not when they are spattered in bits and brains and saliva of the very same zombie. A small open cut from peeling potatoes the day before could be enough then. Or when the stuff gets into eyes or mouth/nose... . And the spores in TLOU ... . Oh, spores (Joel gets a few good breaths)... I might want to put on my mask... .

In general the risks such scenarios would pose for people getting infected are much more drastic than is even shown in the game or most movies. Going outside (from a protected facility) without safety lab grade protection would be very dangerous and basically a roll of dice each time.

Close combat or contact with zombies or mushroom people (also bodies/carcasses) should be avoided at any cost and each person without the proper or with compromised protection would need to stay in quarantine for a while after a close encounter.

[TigerXtrm]

The TV show does a better job at explaining his motivations than the game does, IMO. The game kind of glossed over it.

Joel lost his daugher 20 years earlier and basically closed himself off from loving anyone ever again (can't get hurt if you don't get attached). He allowed himself to get somewhat close to Tess, but losing her was already a punch in the gut for him. He snaps at Ellie shortly after Tess dies, he snaps at her again when she brings up Sarah. He doesn't want to be reminded of the pain. But when you're stuck with each other for the better part of a year, you form a bond. By the time they reached Salt Lake City he'd gotten too attached to Ellie, and he wasn't sure what he'd do if he had to go through all that pain again. The pain was too much, and he was too scared of it. At that point, Ellie is the only thing that keeps him going. Saving her is as much about saving himself as it is about saving her. It's a selfish decision, but not for the reason most people think.

And since you haven't played Part II, I'd recommend you just don't. The story is terrible.

[Devsman]

Originally posted by TigerXtrm:

The TV show does a better job at explaining his motivations than the game does, IMO. The game kind of glossed over it.

Joel lost his daugher 20 years earlier and basically closed himself off from loving anyone ever again (can't get hurt if you don't get attached). He allowed himself to get somewhat close to Tess, but losing her was already a punch in the gut for him. He snaps at Ellie shortly after Tess dies, he snaps at her again when she brings up Sarah. He doesn't want to be reminded of the pain. But when you're stuck with each other for the better part of a year, you form a bond. By the time they reached Salt Lake City he'd gotten too attached to Ellie, and he wasn't sure what he'd do if he had to go through all that pain again. The pain was too much, and he was too scared of it. At that point, Ellie is the only thing that keeps him going. Saving her is as much about saving himself as it is about saving her. It's a selfish decision, but not for the reason most people think.

And since you haven't played Part II, I'd recommend you just don't. The story is terrible.

That was all pretty clear in the game, tbh. Not sure why we need some abomination cashgrab TV adaptation to understand that much.

[mai72]

Originally posted by Zephyr:

Originally posted by Devsman:

Interesting info. I've never really been into biology. I think bad science is kind of par for the course with speculative fiction, though. Even the king of hard sci-fi (in my book) Michael Crichton made some footnotes in a novel or two that said something like "any real scientist who knows about this stuff would laugh at this."

Anyway, I've thought of the "have Ellie bit people" solution before. Kinda funny.

Yes, almost all pandemic themed movies/games etc. are quite terrible at this. I suppose to make things easier. Still I never undestood why people get infected when bitten in zombie movies (or in TLOU) but not when they are spattered in bits and brains and saliva of the very same zombie. A small open cut from peeling potatoes the day before could be enough then. Or when the stuff gets into eyes or mouth/nose... . And the spores in TLOU ... . Oh, spores (Joel gets a few good breaths)... I might want to put on my mask... .

In general the risks such scenarios would pose for people getting infected are much more drastic than is even shown in the game or most movies. Going outside (from a protected facility) without safety lab grade protection would be very dangerous and basically a roll of dice each time.

Close combat or contact with zombies or mushroom people (also bodies/carcasses) should be avoided at any cost and each person without the proper or with compromised protection would need to stay in quarantine for a while after a close encounter.

Its a video game, but I always laugh when I see how Tess is dressed. Cut off short sleeve shirt. People are getting easily infected, and she is fighting the infected exposed to possible bites, zombie saliva and much more. Now Bill. He had the right idea. Gloves. The full zombie attire to avoid being infected as much as possible. But, he is identified as being a bit of a loon, or crazy. ha. He had the right idea.

I know that the developers have to take liberates when they write and develop their games. The story in TLoU is still great. We can't take it seriously for the sake of entertainment. It needs to flow freely. To be fun. This is why I love games that have a mix of realism and are fun to play. and if this were real life, Joel and Ellie would had been dead long before they made it to the fireflies.

[mai72]

Originally posted by TigerXtrm:

The TV show does a better job at explaining his motivations than the game does, IMO. The game kind of glossed over it.

Joel lost his daugher 20 years earlier and basically closed himself off from loving anyone ever again (can't get hurt if you don't get attached). He allowed himself to get somewhat close to Tess, but losing her was already a punch in the gut for him. He snaps at Ellie shortly after Tess dies, he snaps at her again when she brings up Sarah. He doesn't want to be reminded of the pain. But when you're stuck with each other for the better part of a year, you form a bond. By the time they reached Salt Lake City he'd gotten too attached to Ellie, and he wasn't sure what he'd do if he had to go through all that pain again. The pain was too much, and he was too scared of it. At that point, Ellie is the only thing that keeps him going. Saving her is as much about saving himself as it is about saving her. It's a selfish decision, but not for the reason most people think.

And since you haven't played Part II, I'd recommend you just don't. The story is terrible.

Disagree about your opinion on the second game. I've seen lets plays and I hope Naughty Dog brings it to the PC. People were disappointed that Joel was killed, but the truth is his character arch in the game came full circle. His story was completed. It was now time for Ellie's and Abby's story to be told.

I watched a YouTube video on TLoU1 and TLoU2 and it really changed my perspective on both games. I agree with the ending of this video. The title of the game The Last of Us has nothing to do with being the last of the human race, but has everything to do with the previous (older) generation. Joel's generation. Tess, Joel, Bill, David, etc. They were there at the very beginning. They lived in both the old world, and the new world that had gone to hell. Now, take the young people. The next generation. Abby, Ellie, Dina, Jesse, and Lev. They grew up in a world full of decay, and death. Joel knew that if they found a cure by killing Ellie, something else would had interfered with the rebuilding of humanity. Because at our core we as humans are selfish, envious and driven towards hatred. Our destruction wouldn't had stopped at the cure. The truth is, we as a species are doomed. Its why this infection happened,and why it spread so rapidly. Joel understood this and its one of the reasons why he saved Ellie. It still wouldn't had mattered because the old guard were in charge, and weren't to be trusted. The new generation had a chance to change the mistakes from the past generation, but as we see in the game TLoU2 the young people fall into the same trap. Violence, death, and so on. It is a vicious cycle that envelopes all of us. Its exactly why Ellie let Abby live. She needed to break the cycle of hate, and violence. It had to stop.

When you process both games deeply you can see how the TLoU1 and the TLoU2 makes sense. Check out the video. He goes deep and it made a lot of sense for me. Most of the people who played the TLoU2 aren't reflecting on how both games connect. Many people didn't like the fact that Joel died so early in the game, or they didn't like to play Abby. But when I saw how both games connected, I had a greater appreciation for the direction Naughty Dog went. It was definitely risky, but I'm grateful they didn't compromise.

The video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4prQ8LHRic

[Corso]

Originally posted by mai72:

Originally posted by TigerXtrm:

The TV show does a better job at explaining his motivations than the game does, IMO. The game kind of glossed over it.

Joel lost his daugher 20 years earlier and basically closed himself off from loving anyone ever again (can't get hurt if you don't get attached). He allowed himself to get somewhat close to Tess, but losing her was already a punch in the gut for him. He snaps at Ellie shortly after Tess dies, he snaps at her again when she brings up Sarah. He doesn't want to be reminded of the pain. But when you're stuck with each other for the better part of a year, you form a bond. By the time they reached Salt Lake City he'd gotten too attached to Ellie, and he wasn't sure what he'd do if he had to go through all that pain again. The pain was too much, and he was too scared of it. At that point, Ellie is the only thing that keeps him going. Saving her is as much about saving himself as it is about saving her. It's a selfish decision, but not for the reason most people think.

And since you haven't played Part II, I'd recommend you just don't. The story is terrible.

Disagree about your opinion on the second game. I've seen lets plays and I hope Naughty Dog brings it to the PC. People were disappointed that Joel was killed, but the truth is his character arch in the game came full circle. His story was completed. It was now time for Ellie's and Abby's story to be told.

I watched a YouTube video on TLoU1 and TLoU2 and it really changed my perspective on both games. I agree with the ending of this video. The title of the game The Last of Us has nothing to do with being the last of the human race, but has everything to do with the previous (older) generation. Joel's generation. Tess, Joel, Bill, David, etc. They were there at the very beginning. They lived in both the old world, and the new world that had gone to hell. Now, take the young people. The next generation. Abby, Ellie, Dina, Jesse, and Lev. They grew up in a world full of decay, and death. Joel knew that if they found a cure by killing Ellie, something else would had interfered with the rebuilding of humanity. Because at our core we as humans are selfish, envious and driven towards hatred. Our destruction wouldn't had stopped at the cure. The truth is, we as a species are doomed. Its why this infection happened,and why it spread so rapidly. Joel understood this and its one of the reasons why he saved Ellie. It still wouldn't had mattered because the old guard were in charge, and weren't to be trusted. The new generation had a chance to change the mistakes from the past generation, but as we see in the game TLoU2 the young people fall into the same trap. Violence, death, and so on. It is a vicious cycle that envelopes all of us. Its exactly why Ellie let Abby live. She needed to break the cycle of hate, and violence. It had to stop.

When you process both games deeply you can see how the TLoU1 and the TLoU2 makes sense. Check out the video. He goes deep and it made a lot of sense for me. Most of the people who played the TLoU2 aren't reflecting on how both games connect. Many people didn't like the fact that Joel died so early in the game, or they didn't like to play Abby. But when I saw how both games connected, I had a greater appreciation for the direction Naughty Dog went. It was definitely risky, but I'm grateful they didn't compromise.

The video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4prQ8LHRic

Except, Joel wasn't young when the apocalypse started (we can assume he was about 30 years old or so, no spring chicken.)
His young daughter is killed from the get-go, also breaking your "the young" narrative.
No sorry. I have not played TLOU2. I have no plan on doing so. Naughtydog caved to some neo-modern woke mob of diversity and diversity hires. "We must hand the game off to the lgbtq female messiah" crowd. Joel had another entire game in him. The woke mob, who didn't even buy the game, did not.
I'm so tired of shills and apologists for this kind of garbage writing. Offering zero logic for the turn of events that happen in TLOU2, which we all know by now, playing it or not, or just watching videos about it.
Just stop. ND studios made a big mistake and it will have a resounding effect on whether or not a 3 will be successful.
For me, since I didn't play 2, and never will, I will likely also never play 3. It will just continue to devolve into LGBT love story ♥♥♥♥ I personally have no connection to or with, and see no logic in in terms of a survival of mankind situation story.
No hatred. Just see nothing for ME, as a straight white male, left in the story.

[Doub13Dd]

Originally posted by Corso:

Originally posted by mai72:

Disagree about your opinion on the second game. I've seen lets plays and I hope Naughty Dog brings it to the PC. People were disappointed that Joel was killed, but the truth is his character arch in the game came full circle. His story was completed. It was now time for Ellie's and Abby's story to be told.

I watched a YouTube video on TLoU1 and TLoU2 and it really changed my perspective on both games. I agree with the ending of this video. The title of the game The Last of Us has nothing to do with being the last of the human race, but has everything to do with the previous (older) generation. Joel's generation. Tess, Joel, Bill, David, etc. They were there at the very beginning. They lived in both the old world, and the new world that had gone to hell. Now, take the young people. The next generation. Abby, Ellie, Dina, Jesse, and Lev. They grew up in a world full of decay, and death. Joel knew that if they found a cure by killing Ellie, something else would had interfered with the rebuilding of humanity. Because at our core we as humans are selfish, envious and driven towards hatred. Our destruction wouldn't had stopped at the cure. The truth is, we as a species are doomed. Its why this infection happened,and why it spread so rapidly. Joel understood this and its one of the reasons why he saved Ellie. It still wouldn't had mattered because the old guard were in charge, and weren't to be trusted. The new generation had a chance to change the mistakes from the past generation, but as we see in the game TLoU2 the young people fall into the same trap. Violence, death, and so on. It is a vicious cycle that envelopes all of us. Its exactly why Ellie let Abby live. She needed to break the cycle of hate, and violence. It had to stop.

When you process both games deeply you can see how the TLoU1 and the TLoU2 makes sense. Check out the video. He goes deep and it made a lot of sense for me. Most of the people who played the TLoU2 aren't reflecting on how both games connect. Many people didn't like the fact that Joel died so early in the game, or they didn't like to play Abby. But when I saw how both games connected, I had a greater appreciation for the direction Naughty Dog went. It was definitely risky, but I'm grateful they didn't compromise.

The video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4prQ8LHRic

Except, Joel wasn't young when the apocalypse started (we can assume he was about 30 years old or so, no spring chicken.)
His young daughter is killed from the get-go, also breaking your "the young" narrative.
No sorry. I have not played TLOU2. I have no plan on doing so. Naughtydog caved to some neo-modern woke mob of diversity and diversity hires. "We must hand the game off to the lgbtq female messiah" crowd. Joel had another entire game in him. The woke mob, who didn't even buy the game, did not.
I'm so tired of shills and apologists for this kind of garbage writing. Offering zero logic for the turn of events that happen in TLOU2, which we all know by now, playing it or not, or just watching videos about it.
Just stop. ND studios made a big mistake and it will have a resounding effect on whether or not a 3 will be successful.
For me, since I didn't play 2, and never will, I will likely also never play 3. It will just continue to devolve into LGBT love story ♥♥♥♥ I personally have no connection to or with, and see no logic in in terms of a survival of mankind situation story.
No hatred. Just see nothing for ME, as a straight white male, left in the story.

Really putting your homophobia on full display here lmao... Ellie was confirmed to be a lesbian in the first game of this series, that's not some later addition to please the "woke mob", its a core element of her character and has been since the first part of a two-part series. All your comment really says is that you are too close-minded to play one of the best games made in recent memory... the game-play is fantastic, the story tugs at the heart strings unlike anything else I've ever played, and the dialogue, graphics, and soundtrack are phenomenal. Your loss, keep repeating all the NPC talking points from 2020....

[Corso]

Originally posted by Doub13Dd:

Originally posted by Corso:

Except, Joel wasn't young when the apocalypse started (we can assume he was about 30 years old or so, no spring chicken.)
His young daughter is killed from the get-go, also breaking your "the young" narrative.
No sorry. I have not played TLOU2. I have no plan on doing so. Naughtydog caved to some neo-modern woke mob of diversity and diversity hires. "We must hand the game off to the lgbtq female messiah" crowd. Joel had another entire game in him. The woke mob, who didn't even buy the game, did not.
I'm so tired of shills and apologists for this kind of garbage writing. Offering zero logic for the turn of events that happen in TLOU2, which we all know by now, playing it or not, or just watching videos about it.
Just stop. ND studios made a big mistake and it will have a resounding effect on whether or not a 3 will be successful.
For me, since I didn't play 2, and never will, I will likely also never play 3. It will just continue to devolve into LGBT love story ♥♥♥♥ I personally have no connection to or with, and see no logic in in terms of a survival of mankind situation story.
No hatred. Just see nothing for ME, as a straight white male, left in the story.

Really putting your homophobia on full display here lmao... Ellie was confirmed to be a lesbian in the first game of this series, that's not some later addition to please the "woke mob", its a core element of her character and has been since the first part of a two-part series. All your comment really says is that you are too close-minded to play one of the best games made in recent memory... the game-play is fantastic, the story tugs at the heart strings unlike anything else I've ever played, and the dialogue, graphics, and soundtrack are phenomenal. Your loss, keep repeating all the NPC talking points from 2020....

I never said Ellie's orientation was a later edition. Of course it was clear from part 1.
I just can't relate to it. And I don't have to relate to it. Or try. If you put two romance novels in front of me, one about a dramatic romance between a man and woman, and the other book a dramatic romance between two women (or two men), given the choice, I'd naturally gravitate to the straight romance tale, simply because that's what I relate to. A phobia is an irrational fear. There's none of that here. Just a lack of interest in a story that is clearly going in one direction, when it could have gone in another that might have been less exclusive to the majority.
If you enjoyed the game, great, if others did, great. I'm sure the gameplay is awesome. Enjoy. I will go enjoy other games. Games with female protagonists as well that don't go into intimate details that I have no interest in.
You can't force people to love one another btw. That is impossible.

[Doub13Dd]

Originally posted by Corso:

Originally posted by Doub13Dd:

Really putting your homophobia on full display here lmao... Ellie was confirmed to be a lesbian in the first game of this series, that's not some later addition to please the "woke mob", its a core element of her character and has been since the first part of a two-part series. All your comment really says is that you are too close-minded to play one of the best games made in recent memory... the game-play is fantastic, the story tugs at the heart strings unlike anything else I've ever played, and the dialogue, graphics, and soundtrack are phenomenal. Your loss, keep repeating all the NPC talking points from 2020....

I never said Ellie's orientation was a later edition. Of course it was clear from part 1.
I just can't relate to it. And I don't have to relate to it. Or try. If you put two romance novels in front of me, one about a dramatic romance between a man and woman, and the other book a dramatic romance between two women (or two men), given the choice, I'd naturally gravitate to the straight romance tale, simply because that's what I relate to. A phobia is an irrational fear. There's none of that here. Just a lack of interest in a story that is clearly going in one direction, when it could have gone in another that might have been less exclusive to the majority.
If you enjoyed the game, great, if others did, great. I'm sure the gameplay is awesome. Enjoy. I will go enjoy other games. Games with female protagonists as well that don't go into intimate details that I have no interest in.
You can't force people to love one another btw. That is impossible.

You can't relate to the concept of love? Heartbreak? Betrayal? these are basic concepts that are core to the story of the Last of Us as a series... I am a regular old vanilla white guy, I was perfectly able to understand Ellie's struggles in the Last of Us Part 1 + 2 because these are ideas that everyone can understand. Ellie is afraid of ending up alone, she believes that she was supposed to sacrifice herself for a greater purpose, and she is angry that the person she trusted most in the world took that decision away from her. Those three points summarize the entire plot of the series and are the driving force of the 2nd game. Ellie liking women is only one part of her overall character, it is not what defines her nor is it what drives the plot in any meaningful way. Bill in the first game is gay... but that is not what defines his personality either. If you want realistic characters to be portrayed in games, then you can't complain that you can't "relate" to some characters.... that's the whole point, you have to learn to just like in real life

[Corso]

Originally posted by Doub13Dd:

Originally posted by Corso:

I never said Ellie's orientation was a later edition. Of course it was clear from part 1.
I just can't relate to it. And I don't have to relate to it. Or try. If you put two romance novels in front of me, one about a dramatic romance between a man and woman, and the other book a dramatic romance between two women (or two men), given the choice, I'd naturally gravitate to the straight romance tale, simply because that's what I relate to. A phobia is an irrational fear. There's none of that here. Just a lack of interest in a story that is clearly going in one direction, when it could have gone in another that might have been less exclusive to the majority.
If you enjoyed the game, great, if others did, great. I'm sure the gameplay is awesome. Enjoy. I will go enjoy other games. Games with female protagonists as well that don't go into intimate details that I have no interest in.
You can't force people to love one another btw. That is impossible.

You can't relate to the concept of love? Heartbreak? Betrayal? these are basic concepts that are core to the story of the Last of Us as a series... I am a regular old vanilla white guy, I was perfectly able to understand Ellie's struggles in the Last of Us Part 1 + 2 because these are ideas that everyone can understand. Ellie is afraid of ending up alone, she believes that she was supposed to sacrifice herself for a greater purpose, and she is angry that the person she trusted most in the world took that decision away from her. Those three points summarize the entire plot of the series and are the driving force of the 2nd game. Ellie liking women is only one part of her overall character, it is not what defines her nor is it what drives the plot in any meaningful way. Bill in the first game is gay... but that is not what defines his personality either. If you want realistic characters to be portrayed in games, then you can't complain that you can't "relate" to some characters.... that's the whole point, you have to learn to just like in real life

Was clearly talking about people's sexual orientation. Do I believe love is love? Sure. Just not interested in Ellie's love life. At all. Same as I'm not interested in Lara Croft's, or Super Mario's. It's a lack of interest in romance in video games in general as well as people's private sexual orientations. It's a game. I liked the gameplay, I liked the fungus take on the zompocalypse, I liked Joel and Ellie as a dynamic duo, I didn't mind the whole "must save the child periah" story aspect. But, it just seems that in the last decade or so, these big game devs can't help themselves, they MUST throw in "oh btw, they're gay, too". It's at this point, tiresome, forced, shoe-horned in, and completely unnecessary to plot or any true character development. It's gotten to a point where game devs/publishers are trying to outdo each other with the "diversity and inclusion" and it LOOKS forced. Who is it actually satisfying? The players? Or the devs? Or the shareholders? Really, I ask you who is it pleasing? It's not a hatred for people, or for inclusion of people different than myself, it's the hatred of this inorganic manner that the inclusion is manifesting. The last of us is no different, the girl is 14. I'm not interested in what the child is feeling sexually.
Goodluck.

[Doub13Dd]

Originally posted by Corso:

Originally posted by Doub13Dd:

You can't relate to the concept of love? Heartbreak? Betrayal? these are basic concepts that are core to the story of the Last of Us as a series... I am a regular old vanilla white guy, I was perfectly able to understand Ellie's struggles in the Last of Us Part 1 + 2 because these are ideas that everyone can understand. Ellie is afraid of ending up alone, she believes that she was supposed to sacrifice herself for a greater purpose, and she is angry that the person she trusted most in the world took that decision away from her. Those three points summarize the entire plot of the series and are the driving force of the 2nd game. Ellie liking women is only one part of her overall character, it is not what defines her nor is it what drives the plot in any meaningful way. Bill in the first game is gay... but that is not what defines his personality either. If you want realistic characters to be portrayed in games, then you can't complain that you can't "relate" to some characters.... that's the whole point, you have to learn to just like in real life

Was clearly talking about people's sexual orientation. Do I believe love is love? Sure. Just not interested in Ellie's love life. At all. Same as I'm not interested in Lara Croft's, or Super Mario's. It's a lack of interest in romance in video games in general as well as people's private sexual orientations. It's a game. I liked the gameplay, I liked the fungus take on the zompocalypse, I liked Joel and Ellie as a dynamic duo, I didn't mind the whole "must save the child periah" story aspect. But, it just seems that in the last decade or so, these big game devs can't help themselves, they MUST throw in "oh btw, they're gay, too". It's at this point, tiresome, forced, shoe-horned in, and completely unnecessary to plot or any true character development. It's gotten to a point where game devs/publishers are trying to outdo each other with the "diversity and inclusion" and it LOOKS forced. Who is it actually satisfying? The players? Or the devs? Or the shareholders? Really, I ask you who is it pleasing? It's not a hatred for people, or for inclusion of people different than myself, it's the hatred of this inorganic manner that the inclusion is manifesting. The last of us is no different, the girl is 14. I'm not interested in what the child is feeling sexually.
Goodluck.

You just want 0 variety huh? Same stories over and over, same generic character types, no diversity, no ambition, nothing that hurts your fee fees and makes you think for a couple minutes. Do you know how many games I have played as a generic male character? I could not possibly guess, because virtually every game defaults its main character to white, male, and heterosexual. Its tired, its boring, it has been done an incalculable amount of times at this point. Too afraid of a new perspective on things? Can't relate to a character that isn't exactly like you? That's weird... you probably have some serious issues with empathy or insecurity that you should get help with...