TLOU part 2 is a absolutely PATHETIC story (MAJOR SPOILERS)

[Frost]

Biggest killers of the game:

1. Not that Joel dies, but HOW he dies: The writer ignores how he's very aware to avoid trusting anyone else so easily and is never caught off guard. Yet he trusts a large group of armed people he's never seen before, stands in the middle of them all instead of at the edge being wary, even acts like he's clueless with "you sound like you've heard of me - i cannot imagine WHY ANYONE would have heard of me or be looking for me" and dies an idiot death

2. He doesn't say "I just saved your life" or "He came at me with a knife and would not let me take her without coming at me with a knife" or "He was going to kill a child without her knowledge or consent". He says nothing.

3. When you finally get to the moment you were waiting for: the confrontation: Oh wait, go back 10 hours and start over (rather than have both stories progress back and forth like they did initially before Joel died - you know, a climax)

4. You are FORCED to play as Abby and couldn't care about her in the least.

5. You are FORCED to now beat the crap out of ELLIE USING the character you still hate: Abby. It's more fun to just lose and watch Abby die a dozen times, which is more proof this was a pathetic game decision. Let people control Ellie and you "win" by surviving so long to then show the "you lose" cutscene (star wars: survivor does this with your first fight with Bode - you can't win that fight, so you eventually "lose" and it works. They don't make you fight against the main character playing as Bode).

6. You FINALLY get to play as ELLIE against Abby to finish out the game and you can't wait for that final showdown. You've slaughtered hundreds of people. You finally can kill the girl who so brutally and viciously TORTURED Bill before killing him, but instead "Oh, never mind. Violence is not the answer. Even though I've just slaughtered hundreds of people and tortured others to find you, I've decided violence is not the answer. You can go on with your life now - I no longer care that you tortured Bill in a most horrific manner before putting a golf club through his skull while I was watching BEGGING you not to - have a nice life!"

You have to be pretty clueless to write the game this way.

I tried playing the story a second time, and it's just too pathetic as I try to force myself to "enjoy" it.

"no return" is interesting as the game handles combat very well, but how disgusting they let the writer utterly destroy what instead could have been an amazing game/story.

Please get someone else who has a clue to write TLOU part 3. Maybe that will actually be something better than a disgusting trashing of what any mediocre person could have easily made a great story about in TLOU2.

[Perfecto]

Wdym? Don't you realize Joel is an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who kills Abby's father, for all want to stay with Ellie instead of saving the world, so he deserves to die realistically as karma does. Abby gives her many chances to live peacefully with her wife. Ellie is just a fool who takes her's revenge for all nothing. At the end she realizes that she's just a fool.

[always a failure]

I aint reading all that

[azogthedefiler25]

I agree with everything you wrote, man. I don't know how Joel turned into Bill though, lol, just kidding.

[azogthedefiler25]

Perfecto a écrit :

Wdym? Don't you realize Joel is an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who kills Abby's father, for all want to stay with Ellie instead of saving the world, so he deserves to die realistically as karma does. Abby gives her many chances to live peacefully with her wife. Ellie is just a fool who takes her's revenge for all nothing. At the end she realizes that she's just a fool.

Abby's father was a silly man and was very insensitive. He knew damn well that Ellie and Joel had been together for months and refused to let them say goodbye. There was no need to rush Ellie into surgery. It's not like she was already dying or something. She was at the hospital so what was the rush? Now if they decided to wake Ellie up and she told Joel she wanted to be sacrificed and he still slaughtered people that would be a totally different situation. That might've made the story even better and more believable in part 2. But instead of them doing that they forced Joel's hand. And don't even get me started on Ellie dropping the map into Abby's lap so she could find and ambush the crew before they went back to Jackson. The story in part 2 was rushed and sloppy all for the introduction of Abby. I just don't get it.

[Perfecto]

azogthedefiler25 a écrit :

Perfecto a écrit :

Wdym? Don't you realize Joel is an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who kills Abby's father, for all want to stay with Ellie instead of saving the world, so he deserves to die realistically as karma does. Abby gives her many chances to live peacefully with her wife. Ellie is just a fool who takes her's revenge for all nothing. At the end she realizes that she's just a fool.

Abby's father was a silly man and was very insensitive. He knew damn well that Ellie and Joel had been together for months and refused to let them say goodbye. There was no need to rush Ellie into surgery. It's not like she was already dying or something. She was at the hospital so what was the rush? Now if they decided to wake Ellie up and she told Joel she wanted to be sacrificed and he still slaughtered people that would be a totally different situation. That might've made the story even better and more believable in part 2. But instead of them doing that they forced Joel's hand. And don't even get me started on Ellie dropping the map into Abby's lap so she could find and ambush the crew before they went back to Jackson. The story in part 2 was rushed and sloppy all for the introduction of Abby. I just don't get it.

Alright I get it now.

[Jedimindtrickonyou]

azogthedefiler25 a écrit :

Perfecto a écrit :

Wdym? Don't you realize Joel is an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who kills Abby's father, for all want to stay with Ellie instead of saving the world, so he deserves to die realistically as karma does. Abby gives her many chances to live peacefully with her wife. Ellie is just a fool who takes her's revenge for all nothing. At the end she realizes that she's just a fool.

Abby's father was a silly man and was very insensitive. He knew damn well that Ellie and Joel had been together for months and refused to let them say goodbye. There was no need to rush Ellie into surgery. It's not like she was already dying or something. She was at the hospital so what was the rush? Now if they decided to wake Ellie up and she told Joel she wanted to be sacrificed and he still slaughtered people that would be a totally different situation. That might've made the story even better and more believable in part 2. But instead of them doing that they forced Joel's hand. And don't even get me started on Ellie dropping the map into Abby's lap so she could find and ambush the crew before they went back to Jackson. The story in part 2 was rushed and sloppy all for the introduction of Abby. I just don't get it.

You’re assuming a lot, when was it ever made clear what the doctor did or didn’t know? Marlene was the one in charge of the operation at the hospital and we only see the events from Joel’s perspective. The doctor may have rushed the operation but it’s unclear if he knew anything about Joel and Ellie’s relationship and he didn’t have the authority to decide if Ellie got to say goodbye to Joel or not. Joel was a smuggler providing a service of transporting a high-value individual across the country, it’s not plausible to assume that he would develop fatherly feelings for Ellie or vice versa.

[azogthedefiler25]

jedimindtrickonyou a écrit :

azogthedefiler25 a écrit :

Abby's father was a silly man and was very insensitive. He knew damn well that Ellie and Joel had been together for months and refused to let them say goodbye. There was no need to rush Ellie into surgery. It's not like she was already dying or something. She was at the hospital so what was the rush? Now if they decided to wake Ellie up and she told Joel she wanted to be sacrificed and he still slaughtered people that would be a totally different situation. That might've made the story even better and more believable in part 2. But instead of them doing that they forced Joel's hand. And don't even get me started on Ellie dropping the map into Abby's lap so she could find and ambush the crew before they went back to Jackson. The story in part 2 was rushed and sloppy all for the introduction of Abby. I just don't get it.

You’re assuming a lot, when was it ever made clear what the doctor did or didn’t know? Marlene was the one in charge of the operation at the hospital and we only see the events from Joel’s perspective. The doctor may have rushed the operation but it’s unclear if he knew anything about Joel and Ellie’s relationship and he didn’t have the authority to decide if Ellie got to say goodbye to Joel or not. Joel was a smuggler providing a service of transporting a high-value individual across the country, it’s not plausible to assume that he would develop fatherly feelings for Ellie or vice versa.

In part 2, when Marlene is fixing to go tell Joel about Ellie's surgery, the doctor basically says not to do it. If he thought Joel was just a smuggler and that didnt care about Ellie he wouldn't have reacted that way. I think you forgot about that part. And once again, there was no rush to put Ellie under immediately. And doctors have all the say when a surgery happens or not.

[Jedimindtrickonyou]

I agree with number 1 completely, people talk about the game being badly written but how Joel dies is the only part of the story that I think is really, truly badly written. It does at least succeed in triggering a strong emotional response from the player, considering you played as Joel throughout the bulk of the first game.

He doesn’t say anything because he knows at that point he’s done and nothing he can say will matter. He realizes it’s a trap that he walked right into and that bargaining isn’t gonna help him or change his fate.

The part of changing perspectives is intentional and designed to allow the player to see the story through the perspective of Abby. You are meant to empathize with her, or at least that’s how I took it. At the beginning of the game, both Abby and Ellie are basically innocent of any wrongdoing that might have happened in the first game, but by the end, they have both done terrible things to both guilty and innocent people in pursuit of their own selfish revenge.

Naughty Dog is trying to teach the player a lesson that violence is an endless cycle and revenge is destructive, not just to people caught in the crossfire but also one’s own self. Ellie realizes this just as she’s about to suffocate abby and decides to spare her, subsequently salvaging a small piece of the girl she once was. The girl that Joel met and cared for was all but gone by the end of the second game. At least that’s what I believe the point of the narrative is, or at least the moral of the story.

[Jedimindtrickonyou]

azogthedefiler25 a écrit :

jedimindtrickonyou a écrit :

You’re assuming a lot, when was it ever made clear what the doctor did or didn’t know? Marlene was the one in charge of the operation at the hospital and we only see the events from Joel’s perspective. The doctor may have rushed the operation but it’s unclear if he knew anything about Joel and Ellie’s relationship and he didn’t have the authority to decide if Ellie got to say goodbye to Joel or not. Joel was a smuggler providing a service of transporting a high-value individual across the country, it’s not plausible to assume that he would develop fatherly feelings for Ellie or vice versa.

In part 2, when Marlene is fixing to go tell Joel about Ellie's surgery, the doctor basically says not to do it. If he thought Joel was just a smuggler and that didnt care about Ellie he wouldn't have reacted that way. I think you forgot about that part. And once again, there was no rush to put Ellie under immediately. And doctors have all the say when a surgery happens or not.

Yeah, it’s been a while since I played the second one, I don’t remember that part but I’ll pay attention because I recently got the PS5 version and mean to play through it again. My bad.

[azogthedefiler25]

jedimindtrickonyou a écrit :

azogthedefiler25 a écrit :

In part 2, when Marlene is fixing to go tell Joel about Ellie's surgery, the doctor basically says not to do it. If he thought Joel was just a smuggler and that didnt care about Ellie he wouldn't have reacted that way. I think you forgot about that part. And once again, there was no rush to put Ellie under immediately. And doctors have all the say when a surgery happens or not.

Yeah, it’s been a while since I played the second one, I don’t remember that part but I’ll pay attention because I recently got the PS5 version and mean to play through it again. My bad.

Yeah, no problem. The doctor could've stopped all of this from happening but he was too insensitive. A lot of doctors have god complexes so it makes sense I guess.

[Perfecto]

jedimindtrickonyou a écrit :

azogthedefiler25 a écrit :

Abby's father was a silly man and was very insensitive. He knew damn well that Ellie and Joel had been together for months and refused to let them say goodbye. There was no need to rush Ellie into surgery. It's not like she was already dying or something. She was at the hospital so what was the rush? Now if they decided to wake Ellie up and she told Joel she wanted to be sacrificed and he still slaughtered people that would be a totally different situation. That might've made the story even better and more believable in part 2. But instead of them doing that they forced Joel's hand. And don't even get me started on Ellie dropping the map into Abby's lap so she could find and ambush the crew before they went back to Jackson. The story in part 2 was rushed and sloppy all for the introduction of Abby. I just don't get it.

You’re assuming a lot, when was it ever made clear what the doctor did or didn’t know? Marlene was the one in charge of the operation at the hospital and we only see the events from Joel’s perspective. The doctor may have rushed the operation but it’s unclear if he knew anything about Joel and Ellie’s relationship and he didn’t have the authority to decide if Ellie got to say goodbye to Joel or not. Joel was a smuggler providing a service of transporting a high-value individual across the country, it’s not plausible to assume that he would develop fatherly feelings for Ellie or vice versa.

I said I GET IT NOW lol.

[StuckInWashingMachine]

Yeah, I agree with the OP. The story was written by only half of the writting staff that participated during the first game. They clearly had their own agendas and writing styles that they wanted to fullfill.
I for one will still get the game when it comes out on Steam. I very much enjoy action survival horror games. In some ways, the game reminds me of DeadSpace and Resident Evil gameplay wise to various extents.

[azogthedefiler25]

Edge Lord Femboy a écrit :

Yeah, I agree with the OP. The story was written by only half of the writting staff that participated during the first game. They clearly had their own agendas and writing styles that they wanted to fullfill.
I for one will still get the game when it comes out on Steam. I very much enjoy action survival horror games. In some ways, the game reminds me of DeadSpace and Resident Evil gameplay wise to various extents.

Agreed. The gameplay was excellent. Maybe we'll get a Joel and Tommy prequel one day.

[mai72]

Frost a écrit :

Biggest killers of the game:

1. Not that Joel dies, but HOW he dies: The writer ignores how he's very aware to avoid trusting anyone else so easily and is never caught off guard. Yet he trusts a large group of armed people he's never seen before, stands in the middle of them all instead of at the edge being wary, even acts like he's clueless with "you sound like you've heard of me - i cannot imagine WHY ANYONE would have heard of me or be looking for me" and dies an idiot death

2. He doesn't say "I just saved your life" or "He came at me with a knife and would not let me take her without coming at me with a knife" or "He was going to kill a child without her knowledge or consent". He says nothing.

3. When you finally get to the moment you were waiting for: the confrontation: Oh wait, go back 10 hours and start over (rather than have both stories progress back and forth like they did initially before Joel died - you know, a climax)

4. You are FORCED to play as Abby and couldn't care about her in the least.

5. You are FORCED to now beat the crap out of ELLIE USING the character you still hate: Abby. It's more fun to just lose and watch Abby die a dozen times, which is more proof this was a pathetic game decision. Let people control Ellie and you "win" by surviving so long to then show the "you lose" cutscene (star wars: survivor does this with your first fight with Bode - you can't win that fight, so you eventually "lose" and it works. They don't make you fight against the main character playing as Bode).

6. You FINALLY get to play as ELLIE against Abby to finish out the game and you can't wait for that final showdown. You've slaughtered hundreds of people. You finally can kill the girl who so brutally and viciously TORTURED Bill before killing him, but instead "Oh, never mind. Violence is not the answer. Even though I've just slaughtered hundreds of people and tortured others to find you, I've decided violence is not the answer. You can go on with your life now - I no longer care that you tortured Bill in a most horrific manner before putting a golf club through his skull while I was watching BEGGING you not to - have a nice life!"

You have to be pretty clueless to write the game this way.

I tried playing the story a second time, and it's just too pathetic as I try to force myself to "enjoy" it.

"no return" is interesting as the game handles combat very well, but how disgusting they let the writer utterly destroy what instead could have been an amazing game/story.

Please get someone else who has a clue to write TLOU part 3. Maybe that will actually be something better than a disgusting trashing of what any mediocre person could have easily made a great story about in TLOU2.

Point 1: You have to remember when Joel dies he is a few years removed from the harsh life that he and Tess endured and isn't on the run anymore from the infected and the hunters. And so, its perfectly normal to let your guard down, because Joel was in a safer environment. That could had led to a false sense of security. I could easily see that happening to anyone, because we are all human.

Point 2: Joel has ZERO idea who Abby was, because she doesn't explain herself.

Point 3: Have no idea what you are talking about. Give more context.

Point 4: Your opinion. The writers wanted you to play Abby so you could get into her head, and to show the other side. That the "bad people" also have lives, friends, and family who care for them. I get why the writers wanted you to play as Abby. To have some empathy for her. Its why they show Abby in the football stadium with other people who care for her, and she cares for them.

Point 5: Again, just your opinion. Refer to point 4.

Point 6: I get your point, but I can also see why the writers chose to save Abby. Ellie did kill many people (bad, good and even pregnant) to get to Abby. But in the process she loses EVERYTHING. The girl she loved. The baby. The people close to her. She is alone, and if you remember from the first game this was her biggest fear. Being alone.

I haven't played the second game. I've seen the lets plays a few times. The game looks great tbh, and I hope it makes its way to the PC.

[Jedimindtrickonyou]

Perfecto a écrit :

jedimindtrickonyou a écrit :

You’re assuming a lot, when was it ever made clear what the doctor did or didn’t know? Marlene was the one in charge of the operation at the hospital and we only see the events from Joel’s perspective. The doctor may have rushed the operation but it’s unclear if he knew anything about Joel and Ellie’s relationship and he didn’t have the authority to decide if Ellie got to say goodbye to Joel or not. Joel was a smuggler providing a service of transporting a high-value individual across the country, it’s not plausible to assume that he would develop fatherly feelings for Ellie or vice versa.

I said I GET IT NOW lol.

Yeah, I know. I read your comment. I wasn’t responding to you or what you said, though…