" We fixed shaders "

[Tacos]

No, it's taking an entire hour to load the freaking shaders !

[Lince_SPAIN]

Originally posted by episoder:

how you do compare it with or recommend requiem in here? a totally different game. just ridign the graphics train. it's a totally different game. it looks good for what the art design wants it to loook like, sure, but it's medival stuff. and tlou is grounded apocalypse. you know?!? also requiem is a true walking and talking simulator. the buddy is almost annoying. some riddles in it, kinda boring fight mechanics and sequences too. that's reviewing the gameplay i watched. *shakes head*

it's there to show how you don't need hours of pre-compiling shaders, tons of VRAM and a battered 13900K in order to enjoy far better graphics (in terms of complexity, geometry, shading and texturization) than those of TLOU, not to mention it has thousands of AI entities on screen with zero impact on the CPU... while you're one of those users claiming that a 8-core CPU can be brought to its knees by six random and dumb AI entities walking around a book store in TLOU, absolutely hilarious. Keep shaking your head at my comments, maybe that shaking can re-charge and re-activate some neurons.

[HUX]

Originally posted by MaxL:

Originally posted by HUX:

I remember Detroit become human, loading shaders took about 5 minutes, it was so so long !
Now, we are happy when it only takes 12 minutes for a game that has been released years before Detroit.
So yeah, Incredible game though, but technicaly a shame.

It haven't been released before Detroit

Originally posted by HYDRA_assassin:

Originally posted by HUX:

I remember Detroit become human, loading shaders took about 5 minutes, it was so so long !
Now, we are happy when it only takes 12 minutes for a game that has been released years before Detroit.
So yeah, Incredible game though, but technicaly a shame.

Well technically it wasn't released years before Detroit.... you're talking about the ps3 and ps4 remastered version.... This Part 1 was made using the TLOU part2 game engine from scratch for PS5... only the story, screenplay etc is the same...

My apologies.

[episoder]

Originally posted by Lince_SPAIN:

it's there to show how you don't need hours of pre-compiling shaders, tons of VRAM and a battered 13900K in order to enjoy far better graphics (in terms of complexity, geometry, shading and texturization) than those of TLOU, not to mention it has thousands of AI entities on screen with zero impact on the CPU... while you're one of those users claiming that a 8-core CPU can be brought to its knees by six random and dumb AI entities walking around a book store in TLOU, absolutely hilarious. Keep shaking your head at my comments, maybe that shaking can re-charge and re-activate some neurons.

fair. but... npcs use generic animations, the world is mostly static and baked lighting. also... show me thousands of ai entities. i have not checked the whole gameplay. if you mean the rats. that's no damn ai. it's mosdef a visual effect. i suppose a kinda liquid sim or meta blob with some deformation and model instances rendered as the simulation particles. that's what it looks like.

[Vox Maximus]

Originally posted by Lince_SPAIN:

it's there to show how you don't need hours of pre-compiling shaders, tons of VRAM and a battered 13900K in order to enjoy far better graphics (in terms of complexity, geometry, shading and texturization) than those of TLOU, not to mention it has thousands of AI entities on screen with zero impact on the CPU... while you're one of those users claiming that a 8-core CPU can be brought to its knees by six random and dumb AI entities walking around a book store in TLOU, absolutely hilarious. Keep shaking your head at my comments, maybe that shaking can re-charge and re-activate some neurons.

It's better, but not "far better". Not at all.
Also different game engines. TLOU is just happened to be a very shader heavy game, which is absolutely fine for PS5, since most of shaders there can be shipped already pre-compiled with the game.
Requiem is likely using JIT (just in-time) shader compilation, which is ok (may cause some stutters here and there still) when game is not as CPU heavy. Port is crappy because it uses CPU for what PS5 is using a hardware unit - texture decompression.

Also vegetation and zombies in TLOU Part 1 definitely looks better and you can't really compare the environment complexity of medieval world vs post-apocalyptic half-ruined big modern city.

[Jedimindtrickonyou]

I agree about A plague Tale Requiem, it’s a very beautiful game and very close to TLOU in visual fidelity if not on-par. It was very well done when released at launch on PC and it now has RTAO/RT Shadows. Games like this, Control, and others using their own engine like Decima for Death Stranding and Horizon seem so much better compared to Unreal Engine 4(I know TLOU has a custom engine too, but apparently it doesn’t translate very well to PC or if it does, that has yet to be seen). We should celebrate games like A Plague Tale Requiem, they are few and far between these days.

[HUX]

Plague tale requiem is such a great and moving game.
Technicaly it has nothing to envy to other recent productions apart of facial animations maybe.

[Hannibal]

So far Ive been unimpressed by Sonys patch support not just this title but even their past titles which suffer from problems fixed by this title but have been left to languish in there older titles. Looks like they are just interested in the money and a barely playable titles launch.

[Vox Maximus]

Originally posted by °°}{åΩΩîßâ∟°°™:

So far Ive been unimpressed by Sonys patch support not just this title but even their past titles which suffer from problems fixed by this title but have been left to languish in there older titles. Looks like they are just interested in the money and a barely playable titles launch.

Sony is not interested in popularization of PC as gaming platform. It's actually beneficial for them to have games released in a such bad shape, so more players will come to PS5.

[episoder]

Originally posted by MaxL:

Sony is not interested in popularization of PC as gaming platform. It's actually beneficial for them to have games released in a such bad shape, so more players will come to PS5.

i would understand that for the casual hack and slash or jump and run or any type of adventure game, that is the usual controller game. tlou is a partial shooting game tho, that can be well played on m&k. this will not move pc players to console. they'd rather not play it rather then move. also ND is rumored to aim for a multiplayer at some point. this could be good. the microtransaction and kinda "pay to win" model from the playstation mp will get it's own "review" tho. i can very much predict that. we've seen that in the past, how shooter players react to being bullet sponges for $weat$.

[Lince_SPAIN]

Originally posted by episoder:

fair. but... npcs use generic animations, the world is mostly static and baked lighting. also... show me thousands of ai entities. i have not checked the whole gameplay. if you mean the rats. that's no damn ai. it's mosdef a visual effect. i suppose a kinda liquid sim or meta blob with some deformation and model instances rendered as the simulation particles. that's what it looks like.

you guessed right the part about the rats, it is liquid sim taken directly from OPEN FOAM, so even if there's not a different AI for each of the particles composing the whole fluid there's indeed a wave-like simulation going on in the way in which the behavior of the rats at the forefront would impact those behind, nearby and so on. TLOU has nothing like this going on yet the CPU is literally hammered at all times due to the significant burden that software Oodle imposes.

Also, I take for granted that when a GPU runs at 100% but wattage is at half TDP it's a clear sign that the GPU is being limited elsewhere other than the GPU core, I'm asking you to please have a look at how often the GPU is being pegged to 100% utilization but the TDP remains at half wattage, it's my observation that the I/O bus is completely bottlenecked by cache misses as I've told you previously, there's some scenes (for instance when Joel is hanging from a rope upside down and has to fight some infected...) there's nothing extraordinary going on there but the GPU stays at 100% usage but TDP is not even 50% and framerate is so low. I hope you can share your thoughts on this.

[Vox Maximus]

Originally posted by episoder:

Originally posted by MaxL:

Sony is not interested in popularization of PC as gaming platform. It's actually beneficial for them to have games released in a such bad shape, so more players will come to PS5.

i would understand that for the casual hack and slash or jump and run or any type of adventure game, that is the usual controller game. tlou is a partial shooting game tho, that can be well played on m&k. this will not move pc players to console. they'd rather not play it rather then move. also ND is rumored to aim for a multiplayer at some point. this could be good. the microtransaction and kinda "pay to win" model from the playstation mp will get it's own "review" tho. i can very much predict that. we've seen that in the past, how shooter players react to being bullet sponges for $weat$.

Shooting in TLOU is a very limited part of the gameplay, so it is not that important, even tho, it is a selling point on PC - that's for sure. But even Returnal is played BETTER on DualSense due to... dual sense :) and Returnal has quite a bit more of shooting than TLOU.
But the point is that when PS5 games are played perfectly on a $400 console and have TONS of issues even on a $4K PC, it can push part of the players towards PS5 - that would of course benefit Sony much more than some 100-300K more sales on a PC when port is properly done like RE4 Remake.

[episoder]

Originally posted by Lince_SPAIN:

Also, I take for granted that when a GPU runs at 100% but wattage is at half TDP it's a clear sign that the GPU is being limited elsewhere other than the GPU core, I'm asking you to please have a look at how often the GPU is being pegged to 100% utilization but the TDP remains at half wattage, it's my observation that the I/O bus is completely bottlenecked by cache misses as I've told you previously, there's some scenes (for instance when Joel is hanging from a rope upside down and has to fight some infected...) there's nothing extraordinary going on there but the GPU stays at 100% usage but TDP is not even 50% and framerate is so low. I hope you can share your thoughts on this.

about that i'm not sure. i know tensor cores do not render alot of graphics. they are mostly used for upscaling. i benched my laptop in ue5. i put quinn and a bunch of refractive shapes in thirdperson in a totally raytraced mirror cube with 8 bounces of raytraced goodness. that was in 5.3 (compiled myself from the github daily repo). that's where i hit peak wattage on my 3060 (laptop). that does not happen in mostly rasterized loads, even deferred rendering. the tensor cores make the difference. 100 percent "cuda" or compute does not include tensor cores. hence the wattage is not all the way up what it could do. using dlss for sure raises demand a good amount.

about certain scenes. i'm not sure what the heck is going on. depends on the materials. some shots use unique props and loads of textures. other scenes (like huge walls) are heavy, cause they are doing procedural shader stuff to decrease repetition of textures. i had some scenes staring mostly into the background, raising my temperatures. i dunno.

also i don't check the usage or wattage, just my temps. jsyk... i blew a huge one the other day. i heatsoaked my laptop. was playing for over 3 hours at max settings i can run. i decreased midway cause it got warm. i hit the hot spot in the sniper scene (the long shot). totally tanked fps and fans blew 100 %. took a smoke break there. and continued later. that was fun to bench, anyway. i don't mind that. i enjoyed playing it for hours at the limit. that's what counts. :)

[Jedimindtrickonyou]

Originally posted by MaxL:

Originally posted by °°}{åΩΩîßâ∟°°™:

So far Ive been unimpressed by Sonys patch support not just this title but even their past titles which suffer from problems fixed by this title but have been left to languish in there older titles. Looks like they are just interested in the money and a barely playable titles launch.

Sony is not interested in popularization of PC as gaming platform. It's actually beneficial for them to have games released in a such bad shape, so more players will come to PS5.

I don’t know about this, I think that most of their PC games are in pretty decent shape, I own Days Gone, Horizon, Spider-Man remastered, God of War, and TLOU and all of them are much better performance/optimization wise compared to TLOU. I think they are serious and eventually want to have their own launcher on PC (perhaps with the added benefit of Cross-saves, if CDPR can do it, I know Sony can as well). I think they just got greedy and saw the popularity of the show and assumed Iron Galaxy/Naughty Dog could get it ready in time (after the extension), or perhaps just didn’t care that it launched broken because they knew people would buy it and complain but most would hang in there and not refund it because of how good the core game is. But even if they aren’t serious about PC as a platform, I just don’t buy that they are intentionally releasing broken games to drive people to PS5, that strategy would cost a lot of money and have little chance of success. Most PC players are just opposed to the confines of a console and bad ports wouldn’t change that. I think that AAA development for the PC platform is just a difficult thing to pull off in time for a launch. For whatever reason, they seem like they don’t like to delay these games. It’s silly though, Jedi Survivor’s patch this week improved things a lot, why not just delay the launch by 1 week and avoid the negative publicity and further erosion of players’ trust?

[Lince_SPAIN]

Originally posted by episoder:

also i don't check the usage or wattage, just my temps. jsyk... i blew a huge one the other day. i heatsoaked my laptop. was playing for over 3 hours at max settings i can run. i decreased midway cause it got warm. i hit the hot spot in the sniper scene (the long shot). totally tanked fps and fans blew 100 %. took a smoke break there. and continued later. that was fun to bench, anyway. i don't mind that. i enjoyed playing it for hours at the limit. that's what counts. :)

I agree the hardware is there to be fully utilized at all times, leaving performance on the table makes no sense to me unless you're just watching a video or sending mails. With regard to the GPU usage in TLOU I've made sure to play at 4K native while monitoring Tensor cores through the NVIDIA DLSS SDK 3.1, that can get you reliable feedback and for sure the game is not using the Tensor cores when the upscaler is not enabled. So the thing is the GPU core is almost never maxxed but the GPU becomes bottlenecked somewhere else and shows 100% usage (limited by voltage), I'll have a look at what you mentioned above but so far I've been finding a ton of cache misses when debugging the status of the PCIe bus. You might think I'm crazy but I've been seeing how the RAM and VRAM are working in tandem and swapping data continuosly increasing and decreasing in size simultaneously (as long as the buffer is large enough) to maintain the illusion of a "shared pool" to the game engine. My English is not the best to describe what I want to convey there but you get the idea.

[CJM]

Originally posted by Lince_SPAIN:

I agree the hardware is there to be fully utilized at all times, leaving performance on the table makes no sense to me

There is one point where it makes sense.

Let some people below NASA computers have 60 FPS, such as those with mid-range PCs.

Getting 24 FPS in Bill's Town on an 8-Core just so that you can claim 100% utilization of a Threadripper is insane, man.