Javelin Beta Tracking / Handheld Bazooka Projectile Speed are a tad busted...

[ARCAGNELL0]

I'm loving the game, especially after the PvP balance patch, the competitive scene has taken a major turn for the better, especially concerning medium and light weight AC assemblies.

With that out of the way, there's the state of one specific weapon and a broader set of weapons I have a strong feeling that need to be adressed to improve the PvP Balance health even further:

1) Javelin Beta is the Armored Core 6 equivalent of the Dark Souls 2 hitboxes.

This weapon wasn't really optimal before, but it's just absurd now, especially in PvP. It seems to just bloody hit me nomatter what kind of AC I use, no matter if I'm on the ground or in the air, no matter how close or what even is my vector or how I quick boost.

I've had several lamer ACs just equip two of these and then a pair of light laser pistols on the faster machine they can run them on and just....run the entire time while shooting a missile that's guaranteed to build up massive ACS strain with basically noway of evading it, ESPECIALLY if the connection is poor.

The tracking of that thing needs some serious re-evaluation, I could even stomach a ock time reduction and a reload speed increase as a rebalancing act.




2)Handheld bazookas are rather cracked

Alright, I'm gonna be the first one to point put that all kinds of bazookas were subpar in both PvE and PvP, barring the Javelin Alpha,and I'mvery happy they all essentially see use now.

What has been done to take them out of obscurity however has turned them into absolute nightmares to fight against, with their now extremely faster projectile speed and sometimes even reduced reload time making them superior in damage, ACS buildup and ACS overload punishers even when compared with dedicated attachments for thosespecific purposes.

Again, I've seen quad handheld bazooka builds that alternate fire them on either reverse joints or Fortaleza Tank Treads. Anything remotelycloseto the ground or not going over350 boost speed just gets deleted from the match outright, and the close you get to them the worse it gets even, making things like,for example, dedicated melee builds that areover50-60k weight unusable.

Scaling back their fire rate now that they...well...actually reliably hit would be in order, at the very least.


Thoughts? I'd like to hear opinions from different perspectives; thanks in advance!

[FalterXV TTV]

How to evade the Javelin Missile:

Back up.

No joke. Literally. They have a maximum range and all you have to do is backup, or get a small amount of vertical distance once the missile warning is given as the player fires it.
You do that and they'll never hit you.

You keep going straight AT the Javelin user and the Missile will hit you every single time.
They're for hitting people focusing on trying to rush or close the gap. Don't do that and you won't get hit every time.

[nubi]

All laser weapons are kind of broken in high ping, they become impossible to dodge and half the time either don't show the animation or the animation does not line up with the actual shot. this is not the weapons problem though this is just the netcode and the only things i can recommend is try playing with people who are closer to you and don't use wifi and try to avoid anyone else using wifi.

I have only actually met one person using the Javelin Beta so far and they were running a melee build which i beat fairly easily and didn't particularly notice the javelin hitting much, i didn't realise the weapon even got buffed, guess i should test it out.

Bazookas aren't so bad, they hit hard for sure but are quite predictable and you can punish the opponent hard if they aren't quads or tanks when they use them. Maybe im just used to dealing with the BP from Last Raven but they seem manageable in this game even after the buffs.

What build are you running while having problems with these weapons?

[ARCAGNELL0]

Originally posted by nubi:

All laser weapons are kind of broken in high ping, they become impossible to dodge and half the time either don't show the animation or the animation does not line up with the actual shot. this is not the weapons problem though this is just the netcode and the only things i can recommend is try playing with people who are closer to you and don't use wifi and try to avoid anyone else using wifi.

I have only actually met one person using the Javelin Beta so far and they were running a melee build which i beat fairly easily and didn't particularly notice the javelin hitting much, i didn't realise the weapon even got buffed, guess i should test it out.

Bazookas aren't so bad, they hit hard for sure but are quite predictable and you can punish the opponent hard if they aren't quads or tanks when they use them. Maybe im just used to dealing with the BP from Last Raven but they seem manageable in this game even after the buffs.

What build are you running while having problems with these weapons?

Uh... a 75k mediumweight tetra with a shield andclose range weapons, including the Plasma Thrower and a Harris.

Yeah I can kind of see my own bias here not gonna lie :P

[FalterXV TTV]

Originally posted by ARCAGNELL0:

Uh... a 75k mediumweight tetra with a shield andclose range weapons, including the Plasma Thrower and a Harris.

Yeah I can kind of see my own bias here not gonna lie :P

So...you bring a tetrapod to PVP . . . and you're surprised you get beat by higher skill lightweights? Do you only seal club which is why these weapons give you so much issue?

Cuz, kinda' gave the reason why these lightweights beat you every single time.

[ARCAGNELL0]

Also,kind of forgot to mention how much of a hard nerf the light laser handgun needs.


Way, WAY too much damage for how cheap it is to just slap onto your AC.

[nubi]

Originally posted by FalterXV:

Originally posted by ARCAGNELL0:

Uh... a 75k mediumweight tetra with a shield andclose range weapons, including the Plasma Thrower and a Harris.

Yeah I can kind of see my own bias here not gonna lie :P

So...you bring a tetrapod to PVP . . . and you're surprised you get beat by higher skill lightweights? Do you only seal club which is why these weapons give you so much issue?

Cuz, kinda' gave the reason why these lightweights beat you every single time.

Tetrapods are still strong in PvP even after the nerfs, before the patch they were out right the best legs in the game.

[FalterXV TTV]

Originally posted by nubi:

Originally posted by FalterXV:

So...you bring a tetrapod to PVP . . . and you're surprised you get beat by higher skill lightweights? Do you only seal club which is why these weapons give you so much issue?

Cuz, kinda' gave the reason why these lightweights beat you every single time.

Tetrapods are still strong in PvP even after the nerfs, before the patch they were out right the best legs in the game.

I know. That's why I said it's no wonder he gets beat by higher skill lightweights. He's bringing a strong seal clubbing leg set with only benefits and no downsides which means he's forgone how to actually pilot in favor of being overtuned to seal club.

Karma for skipping leg day.

[nubi]

Originally posted by ARCAGNELL0:

Also,kind of forgot to mention how much of a hard nerf the light laser handgun needs.


Way, WAY too much damage for how cheap it is to just slap onto your AC.

I think the damage for them is fine, they just need to overheat a bit more when used so you cant just fire them without thinking and actually have to manage your fire with them more.

[Dakota]

I think really the main issue of the bazookas isn't the speed and reload, those are fine, the issue is the proximity detonation range is too big. It made some sense to have it like that when it was so slow that it was unlikely to even get in that area anyway, but as it is now it seems pretty janky with bazookas to dodge their projectile but still just be in their proxi range and have a thousand health shaved off and your impact bar over half full, even moreso when the enemy has 2 or 4 of them firing nonstop. Alternatively maybe some more falloff for proxi dets so they aren't just as good as direct hits.

This would allow them to be a bit easier to dodge while still keeping their ability to do great damage if you do get your direct hits in and still being great as a punish weapon but not just easy mode to land your shots with.

[ARCAGNELL0]

Originally posted by FalterXV:

Originally posted by ARCAGNELL0:

Uh... a 75k mediumweight tetra with a shield andclose range weapons, including the Plasma Thrower and a Harris.

Yeah I can kind of see my own bias here not gonna lie :P

So...you bring a tetrapod to PVP . . . and you're surprised you get beat by higher skill lightweights? Do you only seal club which is why these weapons give you so much issue?

Cuz, kinda' gave the reason why these lightweights beat you every single time.

This got flamey rather fast did it not?

I somewhat avoided tetras until they got rebalanced, and I'm primarily playing a build with the light tetra legs with about 340ish boost speed with Curtis,Plasma Thrower, CIrcular Shield and the 6 pod direct fire missile.

Ifyou think that's busted and it requires no skill to actually hit a double trigger lightweight that only needs to keep 4 buttons pressed and strafe around you with a meleeweapon that's got 70 maximum range, then you don't really strike me as someone honest.


If you want busted, try Dual KSRV 2 Triple Laser Cannon tank builds, now those make everything else look like you need a PHD to master.

Could you please be more of an Individual and less of an Ass? Unless they managed to make a keyboard usable with hooves...

[Dakota]

Originally posted by ARCAGNELL0:

Also,kind of forgot to mention how much of a hard nerf the light laser handgun needs.


Way, WAY too much damage for how cheap it is to just slap onto your AC.

I find the laser weapons outside of the back laser cannon tend to be either balanced or kinda weak. The big issue with lasers is just how much your energy management has to suffer to use them. Even just a laser handgun has some massive en load, which sure your gen can handle it, but you lose a lot of supply efficiency in the process which is gonna make your generator regen slower. This also generally pushes you towards one of the high energy output cores so you can have all the en you need in the first place. Then there's the energy generators for the extra damage but again at the cost of having a notably worse generator with longer recharge delays and worse stats overall for a bit of extra damage.

Then you get down to it and the damage they actually output isn't even good. A laser handgun with the best damage energy generator gets out 343 DPS while a Ransetsu single shot is 285 DPS, but then the ransetsu has about double the accumulative impact per second output and then it has a way higher damage boost on enemies who're staggered, so over a fight the tiny raw DPS advantage of the laser handguns is quickly overwhelmed by the ransetsu staggering enemies twice as often and then doing double damage when they're staggered compared to the 40-50% increase the laser gets. Then the ransetsu can also just run actually good generators and has like a third of the energy load so you can regen your energy even better or run some more costly shoulder weapons.

The weight difference between the two is low enough that I don't consider it mattering much and is outweighed by the generator stats for a given weight and the alternate core options you'd have available anyway.

[ARCAGNELL0]

Originally posted by FalterXV:

How to evade the Javelin Missile:

Back up.

No joke. Literally. They have a maximum range and all you have to do is backup, or get a small amount of vertical distance once the missile warning is given as the player fires it.
You do that and they'll never hit you.

You keep going straight AT the Javelin user and the Missile will hit you every single time.
They're for hitting people focusing on trying to rush or close the gap. Don't do that and you won't get hit every time.

I've actually followed up on what you said with more PvP and I can now safely say your advice is 100% correct.

Thank you very much kind sir, your tutelage has made me a better Raven still!

[Dakota]

Originally posted by ARCAGNELL0:

Originally posted by FalterXV:

So...you bring a tetrapod to PVP . . . and you're surprised you get beat by higher skill lightweights? Do you only seal club which is why these weapons give you so much issue?

Cuz, kinda' gave the reason why these lightweights beat you every single time.

This got flamey rather fast did it not?

I somewhat avoided tetras until they got rebalanced, and I'm primarily playing a build with the light tetra legs with about 340ish boost speed with Curtis,Plasma Thrower, CIrcular Shield and the 6 pod direct fire missile.

Ifyou think that's busted and it requires no skill to actually hit a double trigger lightweight that only needs to keep 4 buttons pressed and strafe around you with a meleeweapon that's got 70 maximum range, then you don't really strike me as someone honest.


If you want busted, try Dual KSRV 2 Triple Laser Cannon tank builds, now those make everything else look like you need a PHD to master.

Could you please be more of an Individual and less of an Ass? Unless they managed to make a keyboard usable with hooves...

The plasma thrower on a quad is extremely powerful. It's got about a 100m range and comes out near instant, if the enemy is a light weight within 100m of you as a quad all you really have to do is press your melee button while looking in their direction and they're gonna get hit the majority of the time, and then follow it up with the second swing of the plasma thrower so now they're staggered, have half a health bar, and you can add on some extra damage to them while they're staggered with your other weapons.

A dual KSRV with dual triple laser cannons build would have insanely bad energy stats and on a tank ontop of that makes it extremely easy to kite around and dodge as a light build, would rather fight that than the quad you mentioned before with my lighter weight builds. Infact, was going up against someone running the dual triple laser cannons yesterday, couldn't land a single hit.

[FalterXV TTV]

Originally posted by ARCAGNELL0:

Originally posted by FalterXV:

So...you bring a tetrapod to PVP . . . and you're surprised you get beat by higher skill lightweights? Do you only seal club which is why these weapons give you so much issue?

Cuz, kinda' gave the reason why these lightweights beat you every single time.

Snip. Irrelevant since you name called, degraded me, etc.

Let's see.
More armor.
No downsides to firing charged weapons or cannons.
Can float in the sky, what I'ma guess almost indefinitely since Tetra types like you use Coral Gens.

And, you think the Lightweight who's only benefit is he can be faster and outpilot you is the one at fault?

uh huh...
Personally, while I could use Tetrapod or Tank treads in PVP. I don't. You know why?
I don't need the extra armor and know that I can outpilot my competition and therefore rely on a much weaker, faster biped build instead of the overtuned elements that Tetras and Tanks bring. As, players who use these not only NEED the extra armor, but often times need all the benefits that balanced bipeds don't get because it helps make up for their lack of piloting prowess.

That is the only reason a pilot would ever being a Tetra or Tank in PVP. They need the handicap to compete against bipeds.

[ImHelping]

Before the patch bazookas were so ♥♥♥♥ that they would miss a STAGGERED TARGET, because gravity would make them fall from the sky below the shot before the bazooka reached them.

bazookas need a direct hit to matter, even the javelin. Hell the staggered explosions of the javelin mean it can even have some of the damage lost when your target is hurled out of the blast zone, which is why I keep abandoning it.

cry about splash damage grenade launchers if you are going to cry about heavy explosives

Hell half the reason i use bazookas is because after staggering my fellow light mechs in the air, melee still misses them due to janky ♥♥♥♥. So I use the micro bazooka on my light to be able to hit a staggered target before they run away to spam missiles crying, while I spam missiles chasing them. (But don't worry guys, missile boats are totally dead after the quad and kick nerfs)

Unless I am holding still, staggered, or in the middle of slowdown from a heavy shot of my own, a bazooka isn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ touching the same zipcode as me even with the buff.

Bazookas are still trash as a primary weapons. But they got a lot better at punishing people used to getting away from their mistakes when a stagger still let them run away unharmed. So I expect most people crying about bazookas are extra mad about having their terminal armor activated faster when they think spamming red flash attacks in the middle of the sky is as safe as it used to be.

one bazooka watching for spam idiots > 2 bazookas on somebody who fell for people calling them overpowered now.