True meaning of "Abide With Rubicon!" [LORE-NUKE MK.2]

[gnome_chomski]

It's me, your favorite galaxy-brained narrative theorist, back with another episode of LORE-NUKE! (GIGA SPOILERS await, it goes without saying.)

One mystery that has been joggin my noggin throughout my time with Armored Core VI is the phrase "Coral, Abide with Rubicon!", which is a mantra of the Rubicon Liberation Front you hear at various points. (In the JP VO it's a bit more literal, something like "Rubicon and Coral are one!")

So on first impression, it seems like this is easy to explain: The RLF are a bunch of Coral-worshipping junkies who have fried their brainpans to the point where they venerate Coral as a supernatural deity-force, a kind of animist guardian spirit for the whole planet. (Not that big a leap at all, considering 621 has their own brush with the supernatural side of Coral.)

"Abide with Rubicon!" would therefore be a prayer or battle-cry for the mystic blessings of Coral for the RLF and the planet itself. You get this impression pretty early on in the game, and there's not much that suggests a different interpretation. UNTIL...........

In NG++, you play an ALT version of Survey the Uninhabited Floating City. And at the end of the mission, a new combatant enters the ring: "Father" Thumb Dolmayan, the military-religious leader of the RLF. He's pissed, coming for your blood, and chanting "Abide with Rubicon!" all the while.

During the fight, he reveals that he can hear the "voices" of Coral, just like you. But more importantly, Dolmayan thinks these voices are a bad, bad thing, and that you've been seduced by their siren song into triggering some sort of apocalyptic catastrophe. This is where you finally learn the other half of the RLF's mantra:

"Coral, endure within us all! For none of us shall cast the die. The Coral must not be set free, for only tragedy awaits beyond the threshold."

"Abide with Rubicon" doesn't mean "Coral, bless us" -- It means "The Coral MUST be stopped from escaping Rubicon"

The RLF don't worship Coral. They're scared witless by its destructive and evolutionary potential, and they're fighting a guerilla liberation war against the rest of the universe to stop the corps and PCA from opening the proverbial Pandora's Box. They want Coral to "abide", as in, "remain in one place."

What an excellent twist this was, hidden behind some clever wordplay! And as I mentioned in the first LORE-NUKE thread, this is yet another example of Armored Core VI's "hidden in plain sight" storytelling, where the narrative, dialogue, and imagery should not be taken at face value and / or may contain hidden thematic meaning that you won't pick up on the first time around.

Of course, this also raises lots more interesting questions, like why ALLMIND is the prime-mover attempting to cause the Coral Release. Perhaps, as a being who is manipulating humans for her own self-directed evolution, she saw the Coral Release as a way to accelerate her own growth by forcing a Coral-induced symbiosis between humans and machines?

Well lore-hounds, what do YOU think?

[SpaceGoat]

Originally posted by gnome_chomski:

What an excellent twist this was, hidden behind some clever wordplay! And as I mentioned in the first LORE-NUKE thread, this is yet another example of Armored Core VI's "hidden in plain sight" storytelling, where the narrative, dialogue, and imagery should not be taken at face value and / or may contain hidden thematic meaning that you won't pick up on the first time around.

Or on the second or third times through either! This is an interesting lore post, nice discovery and well done!

[poppindancers]

Then why would Domaylan stand against that idea?

"Child, you do not understand what you speak" something like that.

[[OTS]EchoZenLogos]

Originally posted by poppindancers:

Then why would Domaylan stand against that idea?

"Child, you do not understand what you speak" something like that.

I suspect that the younger generation, those who aren't familiar with the Fires of Ibis more directly (since it happened like 50 years ago), likely twisted the original mantra and meaning without really understanding its origins that well.

[PK_Thunder]

Originally posted by poppindancers:

Then why would Domaylan stand against that idea?

"Child, you do not understand what you speak" something like that.

Because he's only the founder, Flatwell is the leader.

[k-ricks]

only Domaylan did that other RLF think Domaylan gone cuckoo

[REBirthTheEdge]

Domaylan has seen some ♥♥♥♥, unironically he's pro Fires ending.

[poppindancers]

Originally posted by OTSEchoZenLogos:

Originally posted by poppindancers:

Then why would Domaylan stand against that idea?

"Child, you do not understand what you speak" something like that.

I suspect that the younger generation, those who aren't familiar with the Fires of Ibis more directly (since it happened like 50 years ago), likely twisted the original mantra and meaning without really understanding its origins that well.

But you're saying Abide by Rubicon means stays at Rubicon.

Isn't that what Domaylan kind of want? Especially when he's oppose to Coral Release.

I think Abide to Rubicon has a more "We should all reach Contact with Coral" means to it, consider it's a phrase he created in his younger, Seria days.

[魔装機神 Psybuster]

Originally posted by gnome_chomski:

In the JP VO it's a bit more literal, something like "Rubicon and Coral are one!"

I'm pretty sure the line you're thinking of is　「コーラル、ルビコンと共にあれ」, which would come out to "Coral, be with Rubicon" in that same sense as "May the Force be with you"

[Call Sign: Raven]

I never thought "Abide by Rubicon" meant anything like "Coral bless us."

We aren't talking about "Umbasa," or "Praise the Sun," here.

There is a war-torn, planet-wide, full scale power struggle between corporations. Abide by Rubicon is an over-used "one nation under god/united we stand" saying. You can even hear it in most of the VA's tone. They don't sound like they want to say it, they sound like they are being MADE to say it and have a tone of being sick of uttering the phrase, as a way of pledging allegiance to their nation.

[gnome_chomski]

Originally posted by poppindancers:

Originally posted by OTSEchoZenLogos:

I suspect that the younger generation, those who aren't familiar with the Fires of Ibis more directly (since it happened like 50 years ago), likely twisted the original mantra and meaning without really understanding its origins that well.

But you're saying Abide by Rubicon means stays at Rubicon.

Isn't that what Domaylan kind of want? Especially when he's oppose to Coral Release.

I think Abide to Rubicon has a more "We should all reach Contact with Coral" means to it.

My vote is that Flatwell / the rest of the RLF are on board with Dolmayan's perspective and have been from the beginning. Otherwise, why would they go to all the trouble of doing a high-risk prison-break operation (mission 9-B, Prisoner Rescue) to put Dolmayan back in charge?

Even in the "Liberator of Rubicon" ending, you're still effecting a kind of least-worst containment scenario as far as the RLF is concerned, where you cause a Coral reaction on Rubicon but stop it from spreading anywhere off-planet.

[魔装機神 Psybuster]

Originally posted by Call Sign: Raven:

They don't sound like they want to say it, they sound like they are being MADE to say it and have a tone of being sick of uttering the phrase, as a way of pledging allegiance to their nation.

Not really? At least not in the Japanese. A lot of the young blood who say it are pretty fervent, with the most "dead" version of it I can think of being the captain of the Strider in response to one of the younger ones saying it.

[Call Sign: Raven]

Originally posted by 魔装機神 Psybuster:

Originally posted by Call Sign: Raven:

They don't sound like they want to say it, they sound like they are being MADE to say it and have a tone of being sick of uttering the phrase, as a way of pledging allegiance to their nation.

Not really? At least not in the Japanese. A lot of the young blood who say it are pretty fervent, with the most "dead" version of it I can think of being the captain of the Strider in response to one of the younger ones saying it.

I can only speak for the language I understand.

[魔装機神 Psybuster]

Originally posted by Call Sign: Raven:

I can only speak for the language I understand.

Emotion still carries through just fine I'd say, though either way you can't really use a translation to make judgments about lore and such.

[Average Game/Disc M0dEraT0r]

On a side discussion, while we're talking about coral.
I just saw a scientific video discussing Coral around the world. Coral is the only species on this planet with no brain, no eyes, no ears etc. yet it can communicate with other coral species around it. It covers a huge percentage of the planet, and as long as the species of coral is the same, they all spawn and grow in sync no matter where they are in the world, so if coral is growing in abundance in the bottom of the ocean, and have a coral in a fish tank, they both would spawn and grow at the exact same time.

Hmmm, and the Coral in this game is taking over the planet, and can communicate telepathically with certain "host" subjects.

Based on a true story? or fact at least lmao.

But interesting take you have. i am still trying to piece both endings together. bc while ayre wasn't super disappointed with you during the liberation of rubicon ending, she still didnt sound satisfied; but in NG++ her attitude was completely different.
I thought Rubicon wanted to protect the Coral and preserve as you said, let nature live. so having those two alternate endings really confuses things.

[gnome_chomski]

Originally posted by 魔装機神 Psybuster:

Originally posted by gnome_chomski:

In the JP VO it's a bit more literal, something like "Rubicon and Coral are one!"

I'm pretty sure the line you're thinking of is　「コーラル、ルビコンと共にあれ」, which would come out to "Coral, be with Rubicon" in that same sense as "May the Force be with you"

Interesting, thank you for that perspective. So it seems like the wordplay also holds in the JP VO -- you could read that as either "may Coral be with us" like you say, or you could read that as "Coral must ONLY be with Rubicon."

You're right though, it's hard to draw much meaning lore-wise from differences between the translations. Still, I'd love to see a transliterated version of Dolmayan's speech in that NG++ mission, just to see if there were any differences in intent or expression there between JP and ENG.