Any tips to deal with enemies dodging your shots?

[dgresevfan]

Say for example you have a fully charged Karasawa shot or a charged laser shotgun blast, but you KNOW the enemy AC is probably going to dodge your shot with ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ input reading.

Is there any way to avoid this?

[[OTS]EchoZenLogos]

Yeah. PvE enemies input reading can still only dodge a certain number of times typically, so you can bait out their dodges with fast firing weapons and hit them once they are done.

Such as using things like revolvers or the like while charging up your killing blow.

The best way though usually is to stagger the enemy before using a powered shot on them, that way they can't dodge even if they wanted to.

My current build uses a moonlight blade, chasing missiles, a charged energy shoulder weapon, and a shield. I use the missiles to zone out the enemy and the moonlight blade to apply stagger, then follow up with the plasma if they get hurt. You can make it work.

[D. Flame]

Bait out a dodge with something else then hit them after.

[Kain]

Press you fire button at a time, also if you're too far with a slow weapon they'll dodge most of it.

[dgresevfan]

I just wish you were allowed to fire multiple charged weapons at the exact same moment instead of them taking turns. Then you could stun an enemy then unload everything into them.

[✰N0ni✰]

Stagger them first, you'll have a window to unload charged shots. Same thing applies to grenade launchers/bazookas although with grenade launchers you can abuse going vertical so that even if it doesn't hit them directly, the AoE from hitting the ground will still cause damage/stagger buildup.

[Average Game/Disc M0dEraT0r]

throw poop on their visor, they cant see anymore.

[dgresevfan]

Originally posted by Average Game/Disc M0dEraT0r:

throw poop on their visor, they cant see anymore.

Based on the damage, that seems to be what the explosive thrower weapon is. But it doesn't seem to have any effect other than MTs mocking you for using it.

[Naqel]

Use missiles.

They bypass the need to acquire an unreliable targeting solution, they do not ricochet and they home in on the target even if they attempt to evade.

[dgresevfan]

Originally posted by Naqel:

Use missiles.

They bypass the need to acquire an unreliable targeting solution, they do not ricochet and they home in on the target even if they attempt to evade.

Funny you should say that. I thought the same way, tried using missiles against Ibis, and I had a very bad experience. It was dodging them. The active homing missiles were hitting but the siege missiles were mostly getting dodged continually.

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by dgresevfan:

Originally posted by Naqel:

Use missiles.

They bypass the need to acquire an unreliable targeting solution, they do not ricochet and they home in on the target even if they attempt to evade.

Funny you should say that. I thought the same way, tried using missiles against Ibis, and I had a very bad experience. It was dodging them. The active homing missiles were hitting but the siege missiles were mostly getting dodged continually.

Ibis is an exception, but you can still mess her up by using a missile pod in the right hand, lance on the left hand, and two needles on the shoulders.

Plasma missiles work in a lot of fights since enemies will dodge the physical missiles, and get hit by the wide AoE.

When S ranking missions, I found 3 variations that cover every situation.

Boss Killer:
Left Hand: Lance
Right Hand: Missile Pod/Detonating Bazooka
Shoulders: Worm Needles

Gotta Go Fast:
Left Hand: Missile Pod
Right Hand: Missile Pod
Shoulders: 1st Plasma Missiles

Hybrid:
Left Hand: Missile Pod
Right Hand: Missile Pod
Shoulders: Worm Needles

These three setups will cover every mission in the game. The boss killer will shred bosses like Ibis. The Gotta Go Fast build will cover missions like the Coral Export Denial or Destory the Choppers mission (without having to Destroy the Quad MT). The Hybrid build is good for things like the chopper escort mission, when you have a bunch of small enemies to take out, but also an AC or boss you want to drop quickly. Etc.

[[OTS]EchoZenLogos]

Ibis in particular is an exception to the rule for the most part when it comes to dodging, he seems to be able to dodge almost infinitely. Though the main problem with Ibis is getting in close enough range so your shots don't all richochet. Against him, you can win with something like double linear rifles and missiles to put on pressure, or faster firing weapons and a mobile enough build to get in close.

[Sin1328]

Originally posted by dgresevfan:

Say for example you have a fully charged Karasawa shot or a charged laser shotgun blast, but you KNOW the enemy AC is probably going to dodge your shot with ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ input reading.

Is there any way to avoid this?

Aim better.
use other weapons. missiles offhand to force it to move before using the charged shot.
Don't be too far away,
get a better fcs,
check your arms to make sure they aren't gimping your weapon specialisation.
get good?...it's an option even if you don't like it.

[ImHelping]

They dodge cancel less when their stagger is lower. This is another reason why laser pistols are popular. Not only are they solid weapons (better range than physical handguns for passable damage you can spam). But the their lower stagger and lower damage means the AI is clearly not threat assessing them right.

Compare, twin laser rifles going from "Basically letting me shoot them" at low stagger, into "So they just dodge canceled three red flash attacks within two seconds. Not hyperbole" Newtype ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rather than suffer the indignity of being staggered by a laser rifle outplaying them.

perfect grade FCS with a maxed out bar with arms that have solid gunplay without trash recoil will still be dodged more often than people mistaking their FCS grade in shotgun range being why they are hitting more often.

Perfect grade FCS can have the crosshair dead on a tank legs build and still miss them circle strafing when they have their back turned to you in PvP. Super FCS is more so you can more quickly line up a shot and not miss a stationary target as often. (This is also why high recoil matters even when your crosshair is perfect for say, a bazooka. it loves to make every 4th or 5th shot be slightly off center with 'just' 100 recoil).

Bad FCS tracking makes things WORSE. But it won't solve input reads or "struggles to actually shoot the target circle strafing faster than 300 speed even if the crosshair is perfect the whole time" issues. It helps ensure less missed shots against "and now they are staggered" snap shots though.

Most bosses have moments of slow speed so your shots can catch up between the high speed spam.

Originally posted by OTSEchoZenLogos:

Ibis in particular is an exception to the rule for the most part when it comes to dodging, he seems to be able to dodge almost infinitely. Though the main problem with Ibis is getting in close enough range so your shots don't all richochet. Against him, you can win with something like double linear rifles and missiles to put on pressure, or faster firing weapons and a mobile enough build to get in close.

Iblis was a big example of "Knows your weapon category peak effective range" because my pistol kill run was faster than my shotgun run... Because I used the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ weak nailgun looking pistols with worse damage and stagger than revolvers.

But Iblis is shamelessly programmed to fly back to revolver deflect range. So "Two hits then the rest bounce" revolver runs become "And then all 10 shots from my twin nailguns hit them for full damage. what a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idiot." between spike melee.

[ImpTaimer]

You just equip the fastest booster for overboost and kick anything that input read dodges. Even if the kick misses, they waste their dodge and you get a free hit anyway. The only non-boss enemies in the game this method doesn't work on are the little blade drones in the survey city mission and the coral-wheels. As for bosses, spider legs cheese the gimmicky "tank" bosses or the spider.

There isn't a single mission in the game that can't be done with spider legs, double shotguns and worm-cannons/bazooka/grenade. The hardest mission with this setup is the NG++ with the coral-wheel enemies cause sometimes they will never do their fire attack and just keep zooming around spamming missiles.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Originally posted by dgresevfan:

Say for example you have a fully charged Karasawa shot or a charged laser shotgun blast, but you KNOW the enemy AC is probably going to dodge your shot with ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ input reading...

found the first to fall in the eventual AI Wars. Don't be a Predictable Pete, learn to fool the AI. This is the key to our survival.