I'm gonna get crucified but I'll say it

[Verax]

Y'alls' favorite gun, the etsujin (x2) got way overbuffed and wasn't even too weak pre-buff. Outside of if/when a player picks smart timing to manually reload-- it's hard lock ocellus/WLT melt/stagger target.

I'm not saying I've never used it or will never again-- but the payoff for this easy to use, extremely low en/weight cost gun is ridiculous-- and it shows by how overwhelmingly frequently it's picked.

I know I'm probably not the first person to say this, and there's gonna be a lotta "git gud" comments that actually translate to "lol why don't you just run a build to hard counter the guy?" Because rock paper scissors blows, bros.

Anyway, mild vent. I know that imbalance is essentially the MO for FromSoft on these matters across many of their games so yeah... I'm not naive in thinking that a Steam discussion post is going to change anything-- in case some of the more shrill estujin stans decide they need to astroturf the comments to shape a narrative-- I'm pretty sure no one needs to worry about FromSoft changing anything based on my wants. Lol.

[Martial Autist]

I like it. One of the few 'regular' guns that actually perform rather well. Like, legitimately good. Many are still mid or worse than, which is why the etsujins stand out so much. I do agree much in the game needs a rebalance, including effective ranges, hardlock range, and ricochet mechanics. And a good number of weapons' stats. But on the whole I'll just take what I can get. I got a few builds they do rather well on, if I'm not running double sampu.

[Verax]

Originally posted by Martial Autist:

I like it. One of the few 'regular' guns that actually perform rather well. Like, legitimately good. Many are still mid or worse than, which is why the etsujins stand out so much. I do agree much in the game needs a rebalance, including effective ranges, hardlock range, and ricochet mechanics. And a good number of weapons' stats. But on the whole I'll just take what I can get. I got a few builds they do rather well on, if I'm not running double sampu.

Yeah, it's certainly not the worst offender out there, and it's not unbeatable. Just gotta be constantly throwing off the fcs to lower hit rate and/or TOT. Still can be really annoying to fight against. I do get really tired of seeing it so often too*. You're right it definitely feels good, overtuned or not. I think what's roughest about it is that it's really good at delivering ACS strain with relative ease-- but if you're able to avoid getting staggered-- it also still chips health crazy good.

[Dakota]

Yeah, Etsujin is a top weapon right now up there with zimmermans, the big thing is that pulse shield is very popular too and pulse shield counters zimmermans pretty well but does little to prevent etsujin damage and stagger. Etsujin has a higher velocity than the rifles aside from the harris for reference here. I'd say that the rifles should get a substantial velocity boost and the other machine guns should be put up on par with etsujin velocity if we want to balance them all out better.

Etsujin builds are pretty general purpose too, so it's not really something you just counter pick into well since it's just generally pretty good.

[Verax]

Originally posted by Dakota:

Yeah, Etsujin is a top weapon right now up there with zimmermans, the big thing is that pulse shield is very popular too and pulse shield counters zimmermans pretty well but does little to prevent etsujin damage and stagger. Etsujin has a higher velocity than the rifles aside from the harris for reference here. I'd say that the rifles should get a substantial velocity boost and the other machine guns should be put up on par with etsujin velocity if we want to balance them all out better.

Etsujin builds are pretty general purpose too, so it's not really something you just counter pick into well since it's just generally pretty good.

That's a very good point regarding effectiveness against shields-- especially since heavy-medium zimmy shield builds are very strong and popular at high levels in the meta, making anything that will mitigate the effectiveness of the shield becomes a strong option for a counter. Add that to the etsujins feel good to play with (and are well, quite easy to get the most out of), so people are going to run them just because they do have that nice general purpose sweet spot where they are pretty much useful at any range you're going to be engaging at, unless being kited successfully or against a really good evasive player.

[Gerbera]

You're just a Ransetsu AR fanboy

Jk btw and the rant/venting is understandable.

I ain't a pvp guy so I can't comment on how effective it feels in that regard. The one thing I sort of agree on though is how they felt pre buff. They felt good from what I remember but I think the etsujin buff may be a systematic problem as Martial Autist and Dakota highlighted, more weapons needs to be buffed in general and there needs to be more tweaks with other systems in the game.

At the end of the day I have faith that FromSoft will deliver on a better version of 6 in its 6.5 sequel similar to that of 4th and 5th generations. Atm I'm moving on to monster hunter and clearing up some other games in my library whilst giving AC6 a break (I'm at 458 Hours). So in the mean time I'll, as the youth say, "Let them cook". And take their time with that as well.

[nubi]

I dont think its controversial to say etsujin got overbuffed lol its sitting in S tier rn.

I dont think rifles need anymore buffs either, lets not turn this game into launch AC4

japanese weapon tier list
https://assets.st-note.com/img/1712732388676-6Dqa5ShbVk.png?width=2000&height=2000&fit=bounds&format=jpg&quality=85

https://note.com/azusaki_channel/n/n26ad83c1014c

[Verax]

Originally posted by Gerbera:

You're just a Ransetsu AR fanboy

Jk btw and the rant/venting is understandable.

I ain't a pvp guy so I can't comment on how effective it feels in that regard. The one thing I sort of agree on though is how they felt pre buff. They felt good from what I remember but I think the etsujin buff may be a systematic problem as Martial Autist and Dakota highlighted, more weapons needs to be buffed in general and there needs to be more tweaks with other systems in the game.

At the end of the day I have faith that FromSoft will deliver on a better version of 6 in its 6.5 sequel similar to that of 4th and 5th generations. Atm I'm moving on to monster hunter and clearing up some other games in my library whilst giving AC6 a break (I'm at 458 Hours). So in the mean time I'll, as the youth say, "Let them cook". And take their time with that as well.

They're pretty sweet in PvP. Very effective/consistent at building up ACS strain and also chipping really well. They'll melt you if you let someone get a lot of consistent TOT-- which also depends on the opponent's build/fcs/good use of soft lock to an extent-- arms with good recoil management boosts this too, giving you longer sustained fire before getting bullet spread-- but etsujin already has really good recoil by default so idk... I'd almost liken it to a bullet laser beam in the right hands lol. There's definitely many build variants that lean on this to force and win battles of attrition-- which unfortunately is what a lot of PvP battles turn out like regardless of the etsujin-- so yeah I definitely would agree the balancing issues are more systemic and not the fault of just a handful of weapons. I hope you're right about the potential 6.5 sequel, kinda wish we knew more about that.

**edit** words/clarity (hopefully)

[Verax]

Originally posted by nubi:

I dont think its controversial to say etsujin got overbuffed lol its sitting in S tier rn.

I dont think rifles need anymore buffs either, lets not turn this game into launch AC4

japanese weapon tier list
https://assets.st-note.com/img/1712732388676-6Dqa5ShbVk.png?width=2000&height=2000&fit=bounds&format=jpg&quality=85

https://note.com/azusaki_channel/n/n26ad83c1014c

NGL that is a pretty spot on tier list imo/experience. There's only a few I think could be moved and they'd only be moved one tier or just within their current tiers.

Ahhhh it's been so long since I played AC4 I don't even remember what it feels like. I did not play it a lot, that I can say. I've only played a few of AC games and none nearly as much as this for whatever reason or another. I was definitely very casual with AC4 though with the amount of time I actually played it-- nothing like now with how much I've played AC6-- so I'm betting I probably used and leaned on rifles a lot if they were as good as it sounds like you're implying. I used different things but I can't remember the feel of the gameplay at all anymore.

[UTMaster]

Guns are for chumps, real men use melee!

[Verax]

Originally posted by UTMaster:

Guns are for chumps, real men use melee!

A Raven after my own heart!

[APOSTATE]

My favorite weapon is [NONE]. They should really buff it sometime soon.

[Verax]

Originally posted by APOSTATE:

My favorite weapon is [NONE]. They should really buff it sometime soon.

I fought a player that was cosplaying Goku with just fists and 2x LCD. Lol, was pretty fun. They were pretty good, beat me the first time we fought but I ended up getting them again a few matches later and won that one. At the time I was playing a double melee build.

[dumb_master]

Regardless of balance they're just fun to use. One of the few "close-range" weapons that lets you keep enough distance to actually dodge stuff.

[Plus Escapee]

I feel as though the machineguns should have been buffed alongside the Etsujin, perhaps with more crazy rapid-fire for the Chang Chen or very high projectile velocity for the Ludlow. The heavy machinegun is just about right, and the Hu-Ben is pretty nasty.

I do feel the Etsujin outshines other options a bit too much.