Some players are such cowards

[Arma]

I play this game to have fun my last pvp match I went against what I can only assume is the biggest coward in the entire game. I'm sorry but it's not a "tactic" to run away from your opponent the literal entire game and win because you hit them once with a missile and then pissed your pants and ran away playing chicken the entire time.

This game is about giant fkin robots with big weapons what kind of pathetic loser plays run away in a game like this.

And I don't care about losing because I've lost plenty of time to better players but watching someone with piss stained pants running away all match is just boring

[Call Sign: Raven]

Nguyên văn bởi Verax:

Nguyên văn bởi Call Sign: Raven:

Did it change after the complaint?

Things have literally changed with this game after people complained, if that's what you're asking. Lol.

So missile kite builds are no longer a thing, then?

[D. Flame]

Just try this build:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3152033927

[nubi]

Nguyên văn bởi Arma:

I'm sorry but it's not a "tactic" to run away from your opponent the literal entire game and win

Yes it is, its called kiting and its been a part of Armored Core since the beginning.

[Zany Fish]

OK, so it looks like you need to be filled in on some things.

1) 6 months prior to Armored Core 4 releasing in 2006, FROM released a game on XBOX 360 called Chrome Hounds. By time AC4 released, they had already ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over the PvP balance with how they setup snipers.

2) AC4 was the first time the series was released to both PlayStation and XBOX platforms and the start of true dual analog controls. Prior to this the series played with what was known as tank controls. Silent Line had brought in a slight shift with semi-analog control being possible but it really didn't get fleshed out too well in the next 3-4 games (Nexus, Ninebreaker, and Last Raven in US and the 4th is Formula Front International in Japan which was not simply a port of the PSP title to the PS2)

3) FROM had only been really collecting PvP feedback from their JP audience until AC6. The JP players have their own take on game balance and what they are OK dealing with in regards to game dynamics so this had been a HUGE oversight on their part.

4) Kiting used to be the way that LW builds could compete against HW builds. I recall the tourney players of the old AC titles (they would hold PS2 LAN tournaments in SoCal, Mid-West, and East Coast in those days -which was LA, Texas, and NY IIRC) saying that tanks had a lot going against them due to the turning speed matters and how lock-on works with FCS sizes.

Thing is, this was true, because AC3 brought in arm howitzer weapons and Exceed Orbit cores. These two things broke game balance by adding two new sources of damage that could be going on whilst the player was cycling between Arm R, Back L, Back L, and Inside parts (you could only ever fire or launch one of these selections at any given time). The howitzer lobbed its rounds out and could piggyback on the lock-box of the other active weapon (howitzers were supposed to be manual-aim weapons, but the lock box piggy-backing made them far more lethal granted 50 ammo and they were essentially weaker lobbed grenade launcher rounds).

Exceed Orbit cores essentially had drones built into them. LW was an energy machine gun, MW was two laser rifles, and the HW core was two plasma rifles. Energy weapon EO cores could replenish their ammo if left inactive long enough, but the Solid Ammo EO cores introduced in Silent Line did not have any similar advantage. Solid ammo EO cores featured a single drone with a double-barrel MG for the LW core, two rifle drones for the MW core, and then Linear Rifle/Cannon for the HW core.

Energy Based Exceed Orbit cores did not feature VS MG -a built in anti-missile system that had infinite ammo and could shoot down missiles provided they were in the sight of the VS MG feature. It was always on, had infinite ammo, and did not even pull energy from the generator to fire.

A tank running an Energy EO core would have to make their extension slot choice be either mobility based via add on niche direction boosters or anti-missile defenses as way to attempt to compensate for the VS MG loss. But the game was still providing too much attack power or overall ammo to lighter builds. There were no penalties to the fastest boosters. Hover legs didn't help matters either. RJs were a pain because they tended to have better equip drains to some of the bipedal sets. Everyone knew they had to circle around and evade the lock box on tanks to counter them so very few were interested in running them.

Then Nexus happened. Brought heat into the equation which actually was a great attempt at solving the mobility balance issues that was harming tank and HW viability. People hated it, moaned, groaned, and some even declared they were done with the franchise as of Nexus. A hover tank with dual chainguns on the arms won the JP tourney, IIRC -and people cried about that being unfair.

Ninebreaker added a bunch of new stuff and streamlined and lessened some of the extremes of the new heat dynamics -but unfortunately a lot of the fan base just skipped it because the game didn't have PVE missions. Some people were playing it online through PS2 tunneling software, but it wasn't given the player base it should have had during its run.

Then Last Raven kicked the legs out from everyone -in a very literal sense. Suddenly leg parts could break. Guess what got slapped the hardest? Yeah, the things that gave tanks and HWs the most issue -Hovers, RJs, and certain bi-ped sets were the most easy to sustain damage into a broken state. Broken legs meant severely reduced mobility, increased heat generation due to the cooling of the legs being pretty much omitted, and reduced defenses. So what did players do? They didn't use those legs in their builds. Instead they mainly used an OP mid-weight bi-ped set that was pretty much in LW territory on stats that for some reason was less prone to being damaged. But they still pretty much also didn't use tanks, because being a tank put your head part at greater risk of being broken off.

Keep in mind FROM was pumping out AC games yearly on the PS2 and FROM didn't have to concern itself with Western Audience PvP opinions, because only Japan had the player base with stable high-speed internet. The net play features of the JP copies was gutted for other regions because the PS2 was not natively designed for online play and many people did not own the online adapter as they didn't have broad band internet.

AC4 changed dynamics again with full dual analog controls, allowing access to simultaneous firing of both arm weapons and both back weapons at the same time + shoulders (or extensions). But they added Quick Boost, which was an evolution of extension boosters that people often cited as being pointless vs just having the offensive gains of relation missiles or added anti-missile support. But at least the FCS wasn't constrained to a box anymore.

For Answer added in Assault Armor and made speed an even bigger deal, but even the tanks were able to abuse the over boosting and quick boosting. I can't say much on 4th gen as I hadn't gotten much time in on them nor did I follow the PvP results much to be able to say how well the generation did balance for weight classes and leg types.

I can't give any input on 5th gen.

What am I getting at is part of the issues in AC6 was FROM responding to up to 20-25 year old feedback on past AC titles and failing to fully understand how dramatically different the beast they were creating with AC6 is and then whatever debates they were having in direction of the game and what new alluring mechanics and interactions they thought would be cool, etc. They just don't have the understanding of how to balance AC for PvP to the depths that some wish they would and it's because they are not seeing from the same angles that we are. The experience is like suggesting something in a corporate setting where the employee suggesting an idea gets how their idea would help the company but then the CEO tasks it to someone else who doesn't understand and the directions from the CEO to that person prove they didn't really hear you -it ends up a fiasco and somehow the CEO then blames you for having suggested the idea. They are ESL, so they can't fully grasp the meaning in what our text in a translator means and even though they may be lurking the feedback and collecting it they need a native English employee who has solid JP 2nd Lang skills to convey to them.

[Rickrack]

Nguyên văn bởi WO1 P. Larkins:

Nguyên văn bởi D. Flame:

Sounds like you need to learn to make better builds.

Very insightful! Blocked.

you know I honestly wonder, why do people tell people they're gonna block someone before blocking them? like, they aren't gonna see it

[Leoscar]

It's always like that in Fromsoft games when they have PVP. I'm only getting into AC's but I'm well aware of the problem. They usually have a couple of really broken elements that are used and abused by the best (and not so best) players. You either join them or accept that you're going to frequently loose in frustrating ways.

No idea why From rewards players from running away so much.

[nubi]

anyone who doesn't stand still and let me kill them is a coward

[SN4444KE]

the pvp is bad.
those who say it's not are just coping.

better play the older titles. they still give you dopamine release.

[Detective]

Maybe it is because of my build being a lightweight, but I personally never had an issue with "keep away" or "runaway" tactics.

If you bring in an AC that can do decently at medium or long range, and you are facing a heavy AC that focuses on close range weaponry? It is a valid tactic to play the long game and attack from a distance away from the opponent's ideal range where they would excel far more.

The question then becomes, what do you if you are facing someone who intents to play keepaway like this?
1) Assault Boost forward towards the enemy. When you assault boost you also get reduced impact damage and your own attacks deal increased impact damage. In fact, assault boosting can often help me win again against fellow lightweights - Particularly those I noticed should be less 'tankier' than me.

2) Still too slow to reach? Consider purging some of your weapons to lower your weight for more speed, and to improve your energy recharge rate. It may sound counterproductive, but once you are fast enough you can catch up to the opponent and rely on your built in tankiness, perhaps with assault boost, to outrade against the opponent with your remaining weapons.

Consider purging the weapons that'll have the most difficulty hitting a highly mobile AC first if you have to purge your weapons.

3) The one I suspect people will have the most contestion... Changing your AC so that it'll have an easier time against such tactics, should nothing else work. It doesn't have to be only weaponry too: A change in the generator for extra total capacity or quicker recharge rate for a continous chase, or a change of the boosters that'll allow you to better catch up can also work.

In the end of the day, this is still ranked. For a build to be successful, changing stuff around to see what does better is key. My AC went through numerous changes before I reached a build I felt comfortable with.

Lastly, I'll be posting a screenshot of my AC together with my singles rank, so that people won't think I'm talking out of my ass here.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3186086998

A lightweight dual etsjuin build with 6-pack horizontal missles and the explosive thrower for back weapons.

[Detective]

Nguyên văn bởi NOCTURN 浪人:

I mean if it works then it is a tactic... but yeah, it sucks.
"Real duels" are very rare in fromsoftware games. PVP was never fun to me because of this.

I am not going to say it doesn't suck to fight against. If they keep shooting from longer range until your health is depleted, it's fair game. Hitting you a couple of times and then trying to outrun the clock, though...

Yeah, I can see how that can be frustrating.

[REhorror]

Man, and people ♥♥♥♥♥ about the stagger and the lack of long ranged weapons.

If this ACFA with all the rail gun and sniper, I can imagine the un-ending rage threads about "cowards" and "fun of being killed without even seeing your enemy".

I think the decrease of the range of engagement is specifically made for that purpose.

[Le chat dans le sac]

What if winning by the clock only gave half ranking points?

Maybe long range players would take more risks to annihilate their opponents, instead of just backpedaling while AP leading without doing much damage?

[Leoscar]

Nguyên văn bởi Le chat dans le sac:

What if winning by the clock only gave half ranking points?

Maybe long range players would take more risks to annihilate their opponents, instead of just backpedaling while AP leading without doing much damage?

There shouldn't be a clock in the first place. Or they could take inspiration from Guilty Gear games and intoduce a penalty if a player is just running away.

[⍚MagusFromHeaven⍚]

Old gen where you instant lose when you go outside the combat zone

[Call Sign: Raven]

Nguyên văn bởi Rickrack:

Nguyên văn bởi WO1 P. Larkins:

Very insightful! Blocked.

you know I honestly wonder, why do people tell people they're gonna block someone before blocking them? like, they aren't gonna see it

Steam is a weird forum. If I block a user, they can still see and reply to my posts. All it does is hide their replies behind a "blocked user" message.