Exploring the endings

[Part-time god]

Hello all,

I have just beaten this game with all achievements and have been thinking about the various endings to the game. Spoilers ahead naturally.

Fires of Raven:

Out of all the endings, honestly this seems to be the "best" or good ending. Coral is a rampant power source that in the game proves to be very destructive, and as pointed out if not destroyed it would literally flood the galaxy. Given how relatively simple it is to cause coral to combust and how such a relatively small amount of it (A single planet worth) is enough to cause an explosion to devastate an entire solar system. Coral if allowed to escape into space (Where it is stated coral grows quickest in a vacuum) then any event that caused it to ignite in space would be a potential galaxy ender. Sure coral has great uses, but the risks of a substance with uncontrolled growth, energy potential, and can suddenly develop sentient intelligence is pretty risky.

Liberator of Rubicon:

Probably the worst ending for everyone. As mentioned before Coral is a very risky substance that grows best in a vacuum. Ayre's plan is to release it into space where it can grow unchecked. Even though they state they understand the risk of doing so, and acknowledge the reasoning that people like Walter had for wanting it to be destroyed. Ayre's plan to deal with what they have done is to simply go "Nah, trust me bro. We will figure it out later." Though the RLF technically won and got "their" planet back. The long term victory will likely be absent once the unchecked coral ignites and kills them all.

Alea lacta Est:

Though this may be considered the true ending, I am also pretty sure it is a pretty bad outcome for the galaxy also. ALLMIND was an AI that had a goal to create the best mercenaries and provided services to attempt to aid said mercenaries to grow and prosper. AKA ALLMIND was trying to make the best fighters possible. This is certainly proven with services like the arena, but also shown with ALLMIND conducting tests on equipment, Well also conducting AC testing based upon experimenting and simulations. ALLMIND during the game had clearly picked a number of people to act as the "Key" or "Trigger" for the idea of the Coral Release. Though what the role of the Key or Trigger is, I don't think is ever really stated. ALLMIND proved that it was certainly able to beat numerous other high rank AC pilots on it owns during the missions, and even to fight multiple forces on its own, yet it wanted something more.

Motivation or cause plays a decent part in this game, with numerous characters stating something about goals or cause for actions being taken. The strongest characters in the game are ones who are also most motivated. With a prime example being Rusty, who is driven to defend the Rubicon, and loves to ask you what drives you so much. Another character who ends up with a lot of motivation is G5 Iguazu who goes pretty much insane in trying to best you, to the point he is willing to forsake his humanity completely and join/bond with ALLMIND to try and beat you. During the final fight with him, if he beats you in the last phase, he speaks with relief and comments on how he will be joining you soon as he is going to die soon as is. Beating you turns into his single goal in his life.

With those two points stated, I am pretty sure the coral release is meant to given Coral a true mind or consciousness. ALLMIND had the express goal to create the best mercenaries it could, and went about it doing the best way it could think of. It ran countless simulations and experiments to try and create the best it could in weapons, and gear. (All of the ALLMIND gear mentions it trying to create gear that is like extensions of the pilots own body.) It used G5's insatiable desire to kill you as a foundation to try and create a fighter that would never stop growing, forever tormented by your existence. Then tried to fuse all its knowledge and experience with G5 to create the perfect pilot. Then take this new existence and perform the coral release which would convert it into a Coral intelligence that would make it pretty much into an intangible being. However, this failed when you the player still managed to beat it, and G5 for that matter, but ALLMIND accepts the result when you still intend to perform the coral release as it still achieves ALLMIND's goal. (Simply by the fact that its' assumed perfect being was beaten. Thus you must be something greater.) When you do the coral release your being is then converted into a Coral Intelligence and you become effectively an omnipresent being. As in, all the mechs that are getting up are all controlled by you the player. Ayre when referring to Coral calls it her brothers and sisters, yet in the final cut scene she states that "We are everywhere." which to me more so implies that she is referring to its' and 621. The combat systems being activated right away, is also explained by the simple fact that 621 is pretty much just a deranged killer. It was mentioned in the game that G4s are unstable, and tend to go crazy due to the modifications done to them. There is little reason to assume that someone who has solved every issue or problem by simply killing, would now suddenly stop.

There was also one last consideration to be given. There is only one example of sentience for coral in the game, and that is Ayre. Every instance of coral controlling a machine or just being there, never once is communication made or any real intelligence given. Even at the coral convergence with all the machines being controlled by coral, there is no reason or intelligence shown other than doing what the machines they are controlling are meant to do. Even Ayre can only describe other Coral as "voices", and makes no attempt to get any other coral to stop trying to kill 621. With that, I can reasonably assume Coral on its own has no real sentience. I think it would be reasonable to assume that something like Ayre is able to form from feeding off of the intelligence of another being. The Coral controlled war machines were simply doing what those machines were programmed to do, coral was simply repeating that function. In the same way Ayre is simply acting as a manifestation of 621's mind, probably pre-augmentation. (G4s are stated to have emotions and the liking dampen.) Given that it is only heavily modified humans can "hear" coral, I assume it is that coral can only really interface with electrical systems like machines, to which G4s are massively turned into, thus allowing coral to interface with.

Thus, this ending seems to imply that Coral release is meant to fuse the Coral representation, and the actual mind of a modified human into one being, creating the "perfect" existence. ALLMIND wanted to fuse itself to G5, then fuse its' self and G5 to his own coral existence to create the perfect being. But failed when you beat it, thus you and Ayre fused and created the perfect being that is simply gonna do what it does best and continue killing.

Does anyone have a better idea to what the ending mean?

[Zer0]

S̶o̶ I̶ w̶o̶n̶'t̶ c̶o̶m̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ o̶n̶ e̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ 3̶, s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ a̶ f̶e̶w̶ m̶i̶s̶s̶i̶o̶n̶s̶ o̶f̶f̶

But interestingly I got the complete opposite vibe of the first two endings.

Fires of Raven felt straight up like the bad ending to me, you kill EVERYONE on the planet, you're even branded a monster. You betray good people in the process (granted you do that in both), like Rusty is super against you doing it and it's clear he's not just a corp lapdog.
Ayre's even just genuinely upset that it's came to this and to me felt like it was a last resort fighting you. Maybe not bad, but it felt like the Pyrrhic choice to me, on made out of not really considering the other options. A wee extra bit, I'd say that yeah it's fair that Cinder's group want to just prevent it happening again, but it still feels a little narrowed that they go for the a very last ditch effort suicide run and it's very clear that the whole planet (with y'know, the rest of the remaining Rubiconians) aren't exactly in the know with this.

Liberator at first felt awful, turning on Cinder and crew just felt wrong but granted that's largely just cause of how it plays out where it's not liek you even have a moment to be like "guys okay here me out, what if there's another way, and there's this coral lady speaking to me etc etc" instead they just think you've turned to arqusuck. Afterwards, felt like the right choice when so many of the planet's inhabitants then join the fight to help back you up.
Fair we're told Coral super dangerous, expendetial rate etc, but there's hope, and we can maybe work this out, and you didn't genocide a planet and a "new" race(?) in the process just out of fear of what could happen. Maybe this is just me also, but Ayre seems to genuinely care about life, yours and humanity's included. I feel like if it was such a done deal that this is just gonna lead to another fire, she would at least be hesitant and would probably just straight up not want you to do so if it was gonna endanger humanity.

Okay I actually just went ahead and finished before commenting, I like a don't know, ending 3 feels just a bit whatever to me? A bit too much left up to interpretation for my liking. I guess my take was the release has joined you, Ayre and the coral's consciousness and now you're spread out throughout the galaxy and can now simultaneously inhabit ACs (though part of me wonders if those are unmanned or not, and it's like humanity and coral have become one?). The entering combat mode has me annoyed, but moreso cause it has me thinking "what have we become the true potential only to just fight more?".

I do like the changes that build up with Allmind straight up spoiler warning you before the ambush so that you can merc Snail, though boy was I hoping this meant we get to save Walter XD

Granted my issue is similar to how they go about the steps leading up to the liberation ending where like, I really don't get why you, Raven/621, are going along with this, and it feels weird that even Ayre's just kinda like, okay let's just focus on the mission. Cause for me the second it was clear Allmind was going a bit too far, red flags were everywhere and I was wondering when I was going to have the resist the mad AI moment only for it to never really happen (well I guess the final fight but that's kinda like you're pretyy much only doing it cause Allmind is directly trying to kill you). G5 being the final boss just felt so silly to me too, like a weird joke given you mop the floor with him everytime, which I guess is cool in a kind of meta way but still.

Maybe third ending just isn't to my liking I guess, or maybe the burn out of doing the campaign 3 times in a row have dampened me, but it just felt like a big whatever burger by the end.

One thing I would say though is I really hope " Ayre is simply acting as a manifestation of 621's mind" was not the idea, cause that trope is up there with "it was all a dream" in terms of lazy as ♥♥♥♥ writing to me. Maybe if there was more emphasis on questioning who we were or something but as is, having Ayre just be a voice in our head just feels so flat.

[CrabNicholson]

Coral release is the best ending. The coral told me so in a girl's voice.

No wait, lighting the Fires of Raven is the best ending. Kingseeker Walter told me so. If we don't light the Fires of Raven then the world will enter an Age of Dark where everyone will turn hollow.

[Part-time god]

Originally posted by Zer0:

S̶o̶ I̶ w̶o̶n̶'t̶ c̶o̶m̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ o̶n̶ e̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ 3̶, s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ a̶ f̶e̶w̶ m̶i̶s̶s̶i̶o̶n̶s̶ o̶f̶f̶

But interestingly I got the complete opposite vibe of the first two endings.

Fires of Raven felt straight up like the bad ending to me, you kill EVERYONE on the planet, you're even branded a monster. You betray good people in the process (granted you do that in both), like Rusty is super against you doing it and it's clear he's not just a corp lapdog.
Ayre's even just genuinely upset that it's came to this and to me felt like it was a last resort fighting you. Maybe not bad, but it felt like the Pyrrhic choice to me, on made out of not really considering the other options. A wee extra bit, I'd say that yeah it's fair that Cinder's group want to just prevent it happening again, but it still feels a little narrowed that they go for the a very last ditch effort suicide run and it's very clear that the whole planet (with y'know, the rest of the remaining Rubiconians) aren't exactly in the know with this.

Liberator at first felt awful, turning on Cinder and crew just felt wrong but granted that's largely just cause of how it plays out where it's not liek you even have a moment to be like "guys okay here me out, what if there's another way, and there's this coral lady speaking to me etc etc" instead they just think you've turned to arqusuck. Afterwards, felt like the right choice when so many of the planet's inhabitants then join the fight to help back you up.
Fair we're told Coral super dangerous, expendetial rate etc, but there's hope, and we can maybe work this out, and you didn't genocide a planet and a "new" race(?) in the process just out of fear of what could happen. Maybe this is just me also, but Ayre seems to genuinely care about life, yours and humanity's included. I feel like if it was such a done deal that this is just gonna lead to another fire, she would at least be hesitant and would probably just straight up not want you to do so if it was gonna endanger humanity.

Okay I actually just went ahead and finished before commenting, I like a don't know, ending 3 feels just a bit whatever to me? A bit too much left up to interpretation for my liking. I guess my take was the release has joined you, Ayre and the coral's consciousness and now you're spread out throughout the galaxy and can now simultaneously inhabit ACs (though part of me wonders if those are unmanned or not, and it's like humanity and coral have become one?). The entering combat mode has me annoyed, but moreso cause it has me thinking "what have we become the true potential only to just fight more?".

I do like the changes that build up with Allmind straight up spoiler warning you before the ambush so that you can merc Snail, though boy was I hoping this meant we get to save Walter XD

Granted my issue is similar to how they go about the steps leading up to the liberation ending where like, I really don't get why you, Raven/621, are going along with this, and it feels weird that even Ayre's just kinda like, okay let's just focus on the mission. Cause for me the second it was clear Allmind was going a bit too far, red flags were everywhere and I was wondering when I was going to have the resist the mad AI moment only for it to never really happen (well I guess the final fight but that's kinda like you're pretyy much only doing it cause Allmind is directly trying to kill you). G5 being the final boss just felt so silly to me too, like a weird joke given you mop the floor with him everytime, which I guess is cool in a kind of meta way but still.

Maybe third ending just isn't to my liking I guess, or maybe the burn out of doing the campaign 3 times in a row have dampened me, but it just felt like a big whatever burger by the end.

One thing I would say though is I really hope " Ayre is simply acting as a manifestation of 621's mind" was not the idea, cause that trope is up there with "it was all a dream" in terms of lazy as ♥♥♥♥ writing to me. Maybe if there was more emphasis on questioning who we were or something but as is, having Ayre just be a voice in our head just feels so flat.

Honestly, I don't think there really was meant to be a "and everyone lives happily ever after." type ending to this. Fire of Raven sure you end up considered a monster for having to do it, and even Walter recognizes in the story how monstrous it is to do this. However it is an evil that is needed to save everyone beyond the planet. Kill 1 to save a thousand. Coral is the source of the issue, thus removing it is a known viable option rather than "What ifs". Even "Good" characters in this will kill you without hesitation, even your "buddy" rusty is willing to kill the player just because he was ordered to. None of the factions are the good guys in this, even the liberation army can be considered evil. The only good guys in a war like this is the side that wins. Naturally even though nearly everyone tries to stop you from cremating the planet, the question is do they know the risk, and are they even willing to make the sacrifice. The answer is probably no to both.

As for turning on Cinder, there is a lot of "What if we can fix this, what if there is another way?" The next question is "What if there is no other way? What if burning it is the only way?" There is a massive gamble that has to be made on the assumption by a voice in your head that knows as little as you do. To which this voice so happens to be based upon the substance that is the cause of the entire issue to begin with. What if Ayre, who has no idea of a solution is in fact wrong and there is no way to fix the original issue raised by Walter and friends? Does Ayre have a back-up plan? No, they simply assume they will think of something later. As for Ayre caring about life, they never really protest people being killed. In fact they seem perfectly fine to go along with whoever you decide to kill, the ONLY time Ayre disagrees is with the destruction of the coral, the only time they show remorse is when you destroy the coral transports. To which Ayre agrees it is a necessary sacrifice.

You need to remember that Ayre is a coral intelligence. AKA she is apart of the coral, if you destroy the coral you destroy Ayre. Ayre only really cares about Ayre, and is willing to sacrifice others to achieve their own survival. Ayre never makes attempts to stop you from slaughter the literal legions of people throughout the game.

As for the third ending, ALLMIND's entire goal was to make the perfect fighter. You as 621 have become the perfect fighter, you resolve literally everything by fighting. Why would you suddenly stop when you became a coral intelligence? You took a blood thirsty being and gave it the ability to control every mechanized war machine in one go, what did you think would happen?

[Crossbone]

Fires and Liberation are probably the highest chance of canon for another game, Fires could take an Another Age approach and have a sequel in another planet with references to what happened in Rubicon.

Liberator could lead to a direct sequel since we need an answer to what happens next between the Coral and humans remaining in Rubicon, do the corps or PCA invade again? does the rest of the Coral see humans as a threat and vice versa?

Alea Iacta Est is just too weird for a sequel, I don't think there are any humans anywhere left and I don't know how life goes on here.

I also think there is another ending in the works because Raven is also mute and it feels to me like we may get to play their side in another story seeing how the PCA was tailing him and the rest of Branch even before Rubicon and he did leak info on Coral which prompted the corps coming back to Rubicon after the fires of Ibis, we don't know why he did this.

[U_F_N_M]

There is a quote from Ayre earlier in the 3rd playthrough that spells it out completely. To paraphrase: she says that ACs are a form of evolution for humanity. So in Coral Release, humanity has become ACs. You aren't piloting your own AC in the cinematic because you aren't piloting an AC at all.

[twiggy]

Originally posted by U_F_N_M:

There is a quote from Ayre earlier in the 3rd playthrough that spells it out completely. To paraphrase: she says that ACs are a form of evolution for humanity. So in Coral Release, humanity has become ACs. You aren't piloting your own AC in the cinematic because you aren't piloting an AC at all.

yeah i noticed this too on replay. its the dialogue she tells you after you fight her in the arena, she says she realized how humanity has chosen the form of ac's to fight each other and this is their evolution (augmenting themselves through cybernetics and coral in order to have more control over their ac so they can kill each other more effectively). but i think she also says that she thinks this is what allmind might see as well, except allmind wants to control coral AND the humans, while ayre wants symbiosis between the two

also, it shows how flawed allminds ending is because iguazu managed to use allmind in order to be strong enough to try and kill 621, meaning allmind is not capable of sentient reasoning like coral (ayre) is

[twiggy]

op you didnt realize that ayre isnt the only sentient coral voice in the game, theres one that also talks to thumb dolmayan. he writes about his converstations with her in his data logs and how benevolent she is. shes ok with him sacrificing other coral in order to talk with her and share "happiness" (he essentially kills her family by getting high off of coral, which is how hes able to communicate with her and he feels guilty about this and thinks its unfair of him). the coral voice he talks to mentions how she discovered coral release through old institute data that she found and proposes it to him as a way for symbiosis between coral and humans but dolmayan is too torn to choose what option to pick. coral clearly is able to learn like humans do and share human emotions, its an actual sentient thing unlike allmind for example

[Shakkolvan]

I'd say of all the endings, this is where my mindset is-

Fires of Raven:
The Raven dies (or might die) and you have a chance for an Another Age situation where 621 winds up being the BBEG and is either infused with coral from the blast while falling back into Rubicon or becomes what Ayre intended for all humans and coral, but is the sole product and then winds up being the Rubiconian Nine-Ball esque super intelligence that can control any machine he desires. If he is dead, then Another Age without 621 or coral and you now have a planet full of people unable to get their coral fix.

Even if 621 dies and doesn't come back, there's still the C-Weapon technology to be harvested by corporations to be imbued with artificial intelligence or make operable by man.

Liberator of Rubicon:
Same as Fires of Raven, but 621 is definitely still alive and Rubiconians are at his mercy. Allmind also has a whole planet to play with and maybe set up more Iguazu-like mercenary plots from the Rubiconians and corps left on Rubicon.

Alea Iacta Est:
Congratulations, Human-PLUS is no longer for select mercenaries, but has become an unavoidable infestation of the galaxy to make the next human creation. Everyone goes mad over time and the universe is doomed.

I'm tired and didn't proofread any of that or go into as much detail as I could if I were more awake. If it makes sense, then that's great. If it doesn't, feel free to tell me I'm dumb.

[Hariman]

ALLMIND would have controlled ALL of the ACs personally if it was allowed to live in Alea Lacta Est... instead we get an invading alien force taking over military hardware.

Liberation is... not the best option, but isn't creating an apocalypse directly.

Fires is only destroying one planet, and possibly saving the universe.


Well... unless FromSoft releases a DLC that clarifies that Coral Beings getting freed ISN'T doom for the universe.

[Blade of Starlight]

I believe "Alea lacta Est:" end still the true ending
but ALLMIND isn't a bad AI, it's want the best for humanity in more controllable outcome. It intention is pure but how its execute it is wrong.

[Blackmage]

Fires of Raven:
This ending was easily the bad end. I think people who feel this ending was good are forgetting Coral is sentient life, just not in a form we normally understand it. Destroying all of the coral means committing genocide against an entire race of energy-people, AND destroying an entire planet in the process. If you look up "war criminal" in the dictionary, it cites this ending.


Liberator of Rubicon & Alea lacta Est:
Both of these endings are about coexistence. Liberator is more conventional. Alea lacta Est is more biblical. Hidetaka Miyazaki's game design of providing ambiguous endings is a double edged sword. It encourages creative interpretation, but it doesn't really do anyone any favor's either.

I do not think ALLMIND's goal was strictly finding/producing the strongest AC pilot, that was only a means to an end. It wanted to also be able to control the final outcome of mankind's next stage of "evolution." It eventually decides 621 cannot be controlled, which is why it tries to replace 621 with Iquazu.

621 only becomes god metaphorically, not literally. As god created life on Earth, Coral is released across the galaxy by 621 and inhabit the bodies of AC's - and likely other machinery - effectively making 621 "god" but only in theme, or concept.
When Ayre says "we are everywhere," she is referring to Coral, not 621.
The comment, "activating combat mode," is what your AC's computer says at the start of every mission. You cannot change the voice in AC6, but it did change in the classic games depending on the head your AC had. I think this is a nod to that history of AC, and nothing more.

I also think you are grasping at straws to suggest Coral isn't actually sentient.
I think the only reason why Ayre was able to make first contact with 621 is because 621 is so heavily modified by the H+ project, making them more machine than most humans.
And I think the reason why other machines possessed by coral continue to do what the machine is designed to do, is because that's all the machine can do. It's not like a toaster has the ability to speak.


On a side note, I think Coral energy is probably also a euphemism for nuclear energy. Yes, it can be very volatile, but it's also a source of incredible power. There are many people advocating for the expanded use of nuclear energy, for good reason.
At the time of writing this, there are more than 400 power plants across the world, yet there have been fewer than 100 nuclear power plant incidents since the 1950s. Meltdowns are actually very rare, making nuclear energy ironically very reliable. There is also actually very little nuclear waste as well, because rods run for years, and the only other byproduct of nuclear energy is steam - as opposed to fossil fuels, which burn very quickly and the fumes directly damage the environment.
The message being that Coral has its risks, but so does everything else. Even using a knife comes with a risk of cutting you or someone else. But how else are you going to carve into your nice juicy steak? The benefits outweigh the risks.

[Hariman]

Oh it's blatantly obvious Coral is sapient, but it looks like its life cycle is that of expanding and absorbing corporeal life into it.

So from all I've seen Coral is something that might just be the apocalypse force, destroying any galaxy/place it touches.

[cpoc019]

I definitely agree with your first 2 points. Coral is in essence a hivemind-like entity that has the singular goal of spreading through the galaxy and due to how "flammable" it is, permitting this could potentially mean the end of the galaxy when it inevitably blows up. You put this description in any other sci-fi universe this will be the description for the BBEG. As for ending 3 it just felt like we were somehow joined with the Coral consciousness and leaves the future open, kinda like the Radiance ending in Hollow Knight or the elder god ending in Bloodborne, where 621 undergoes some type of "ascension" and opens up a brand new future instead of stagnation (imo Fires of Raven) or ruin ()Liberator of Rubicon).

I don't think anyone will say there's nothing wrong with the Fires of Raven ending in terms of decisions and outcomes. There's no denying that this ending means the burning of an inhabited planet, the callous murder of everyone and everything on it, and also the genocide of the Coral race, but being human, I feel like burning a planet and potentially ending the existence of Coral is a reasonable price to pay to ensure the future of the rest of the galaxy. A similar example would be the decision of Exterminatus in the universe of WH40k.

[Hariman]

Originally posted by cpoc019:

I definitely agree with your first 2 points. Coral is in essence a hivemind-like entity that has the singular goal of spreading through the galaxy and due to how "flammable" it is, permitting this could potentially mean the end of the galaxy when it inevitably blows up. You put this description in any other sci-fi universe this will be the description for the BBEG. As for ending 3 it just felt like we were somehow joined with the Coral consciousness and leaves the future open, kinda like the Radiance ending in Hollow Knight or the elder god ending in Bloodborne, where 621 undergoes some type of "ascension" and opens up a brand new future instead of stagnation (imo Fires of Raven) or ruin ()Liberator of Rubicon).

I don't think anyone will say there's nothing wrong with the Fires of Raven ending in terms of decisions and outcomes. There's no denying that this ending means the burning of an inhabited planet, the callous murder of everyone and everything on it, and also the genocide of the Coral race, but being human, I feel like burning a planet and potentially ending the existence of Coral is a reasonable price to pay to ensure the future of the rest of the galaxy. A similar example would be the decision of Exterminatus in the universe of WH40k.

Oh I hadn't considered that the Coral might expand to fill the galaxy and then do the coral release thing again, spreading it to the rest of the universe.

That only adds to the horror of the Alea Lacta Est ending.

[Sevrojin]

Burning the planet and coral is the only real answer here.

its not a matter of if the coral will detonate its just a matter of when it will detonate. and its shown that it exponentially grows in the void so if left long enough is space it would fill it up and basically delete the entire universe not just a singular galaxy.