IA-02: Bed of Chaos (i mean Ice Worm)

[opus132]

Guess FromSoft has to put one of those in every one of their games:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYqWtUsJD3M

Spectacle was good but i generally dislike bosses like this. I don't like the idea you need a special weapon to kill it (i'm not even going to bother checking if you can do it without the needle. I can only imagine how much of a chore it would be), and unless there's a way to predict his movements somehow it just feels RNG. The only one i was able to guess is the first hit since his initial pattern is always the same, but after that it felt i was at the mercy of luck.

[burn1none]

Escrito originalmente por opus132:

Escrito originalmente por burn1none:

Now you can stop crying

You can do everything under the sun if you are autistic enough. Hell, i once made an attempt at doing Rykard without the spear, which i failed utterly as i hadn't practiced the second phase since my first run a year prior but just the first phase alone took me 10m and that was enough to make me not bother trying again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbeeQKgN3TY&t=1s

The fact that it's "possible" doesn't mean it is advisable. I checked a video on youtube and sure enough it took the guy 10m to kill the Ice Worm. Considering most of the fight is you basically waiting for the thing to pop out of the ground (and hope you are in the right place to get a shot at it) i can only imagine how much of a chore it must have been to pull it off.

Bosses like this are ok the first time you do them but they aren't engaging enough to make you want to fight them again. It's basically just a gimmick fight, like the big walker you meet in chapter 1.

“Wahhhh you can’t do it without needle!!”
“Wahhhh I don’t wanna do it without needle”

[gnome_chomski]

Ice Worm isn't Bed of Chaos -- it's this game's version of Storm King / Yhorm the Giant / Rykard.

The chief difference being that the special boss-killing weapon isn't useless outside of its boss fight, and is instead so good that it can carry you through the rest of the game.

[D. Flame]

Escrito originalmente por Wutever:

Escrito originalmente por D. Flame:

Aka, a gimmicky puzzle fight. A lot of FS games have at least 1. A lot of them have decent spectacle, like the Dragon God in Demon's Souls.

Bed of Chaos just stands out because it was bad on all fronts. It was a gimmicky puzzle boss, it could one hit kill you, you could die randomly because the floor fell out, and it lacked the spectacle things like the Ice Worm and the Dragon God had.

So it is like the Worm in that is a gimmicky puzzle, but the Worm has the spectacle that the BoC lacked.

Worm feels more scripted though, especially with the whole Drone interlude BS (no idea if you technically could AB to the boss and put a needle in it).

In addition it has the same issue as other bosses - it can go out of bounds and screw you over. I had to restart a perfectly fine S-rank run because the boss decided to pop up out of bounds after the drones and I missed the Needle. Actually made me angry.

If you head to near where the NPCs hand out at the start, it will pop out near there. That lets you land a free hit.

If you boost over towards the left after your damage phase, you can catch it near the buildings when it is deploying drones to land your second hit quickly. I did this to get my S-Rank. The hardest part of this is just not getting screwed over by the drones stealing your lock on.

After that, it feels entirely random.

[Wutever]

Escrito originalmente por D. Flame:

Escrito originalmente por Wutever:

Worm feels more scripted though, especially with the whole Drone interlude BS (no idea if you technically could AB to the boss and put a needle in it).

In addition it has the same issue as other bosses - it can go out of bounds and screw you over. I had to restart a perfectly fine S-rank run because the boss decided to pop up out of bounds after the drones and I missed the Needle. Actually made me angry.

If you head to near where the NPCs hand out at the start, it will pop out near there. That lets you land a free hit.

If you boost over towards the left after your damage phase, you can catch it near the buildings when it is deploying drones to land your second hit quickly. I did this to get my S-Rank. The hardest part of this is just not getting screwed over by the drones stealing your lock on.

After that, it feels entirely random.

Yeah, I know about the first shot. Didn't know whether or not you can actually do anything during the drone phase. The lock stealing was too annoying, so I just waited it out and got the S-rank anyway. Good to know it's actually possible though.

[TyresTyco]

Escrito originalmente por Wutever:

Escrito originalmente por D. Flame:

If you head to near where the NPCs hand out at the start, it will pop out near there. That lets you land a free hit.

If you boost over towards the left after your damage phase, you can catch it near the buildings when it is deploying drones to land your second hit quickly. I did this to get my S-Rank. The hardest part of this is just not getting screwed over by the drones stealing your lock on.

After that, it feels entirely random.

Yeah, I know about the first shot. Didn't know whether or not you can actually do anything during the drone phase. The lock stealing was too annoying, so I just waited it out and got the S-rank anyway. Good to know it's actually possible though.

You can also just shot the needle launcher without locking on. Granted.. you have to be in their effective range to hit but locking on isn't required. Just aim slightly below the face. Works 50% of the time when I try it. You have to move towards it's drone spawn spot while it's still recovering from the first dmg phase tho.

[Jagdtiger]

Escrito originalmente por D. Flame:

Escrito originalmente por Jagdtiger:

Actually mindblowing how some people haven't realised that the worm's moveset is extremely small and predictable, plus it will always do the exact same thing at the start of a new phase depending on where you position yourself. If you payed attention to the worm's movements, you can kill it before its first opening move of each phase even ends, thus making it completely deterministic

Everyone knows that it has a limited move set. The issue is being in front of it at the perfect angle to land the shot directly to the front plane of the face.

Every single attack is targeted at the player, the attacks are literally designed so that you can't not be infront of it. You will ALWAYS be infront of it at the start of every single phase, second attack for the first phase, first attack for the second phase, and second attack for the third phase, unless you literally box it into a corner of the like 5km wide arena and force it to pick a different move

[D. Flame]

Escrito originalmente por TyresTyco:

Escrito originalmente por Wutever:

Yeah, I know about the first shot. Didn't know whether or not you can actually do anything during the drone phase. The lock stealing was too annoying, so I just waited it out and got the S-rank anyway. Good to know it's actually possible though.

You can also just shot the needle launcher without locking on. Granted.. you have to be in their effective range to hit but locking on isn't required. Just aim slightly below the face. Works 50% of the time :praisesun: when I try it. You have to move towards it's drone spawn spot while it's still recovering from the first dmg phase tho.

I wasn't talking about hard lock on.

Escrito originalmente por Jagdtiger:

Escrito originalmente por D. Flame:

Everyone knows that it has a limited move set. The issue is being in front of it at the perfect angle to land the shot directly to the front plane of the face.

Every single attack is targeted at the player, the attacks are literally designed so that you can't not be infront of it. You will ALWAYS be infront of it at the start of every single phase, second attack for the first phase, first attack for the second phase, and second attack for the third phase, unless you literally box it into a corner of the like 5km wide arena and force it to pick a different move

Literally false.

First phase: It started by facing my starting location.

Second phase: It was facing where it got taken down originally.

Third phase: it came out of the ground perpendicular to me, facing an NPC.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

At least the ice worm isn’t a platforming challenge in a game that doesn’t have a dedicated jump button.

[Kain]

Favorite boss.

[Muse Snooze]

Ice worm is NOWHERE near as bad as Bed of Chaos. I should know, I've genuinely beat Dark Souls 1 dozens of times, and I never once, for a single second, enjoyed that boss for any reason. I usually will save/quit to cheese the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing. Awful boss. Ice worm is an actual boss with real, dodgeable moves. This is not comparable. The closest thing you COULD compare to Bed is the Depths 2 laser defense system, which is STILL better because it's attacks are actually predictable and can be timed. It's a touch boring, but it's not total RNG garbage like Bed.

I have SUFFERED through Bed and Dragon God far too many times, I know them down to the last byte of code, they're awful. Nothing in this is like that. Eldenring had that going for it too, though general boss quality was a touch lame in that one.

[opus132]

Yeah comparing the Ice Worm to Bed of Chaos may have been a bit much but i was making a general point against gimmick bosses (i had no idea what the Ice Worm was before i fought it so i reacted a bit emotionally).

Maybe they have a reason for being i don't know, i just don't find them all that fun, mostly because they feel very limiting, scripted and while the spectacle is nice it's also basically fluff you have to endure every time you restart the boss for any reason (on that note i'm glad this fight wasn't that hard so i didn't have to replay the mission two dozen times, listening to the same chatter over and over etc).

[dgresevfan]

There's nothing hard about this boss.

[Tsar Platinum]

If you think this boss is hard wait till the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that is the final boss of NG++

Actually is one of the most unfun boss experiences they've crafted since Bed of Chaos.

[opus132]

Escrito originalmente por burn1none:

Escrito originalmente por opus132:

You can do everything under the sun if you are autistic enough. Hell, i once made an attempt at doing Rykard without the spear, which i failed utterly as i hadn't practiced the second phase since my first run a year prior but just the first phase alone took me 10m and that was enough to make me not bother trying again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbeeQKgN3TY&t=1s

The fact that it's "possible" doesn't mean it is advisable. I checked a video on youtube and sure enough it took the guy 10m to kill the Ice Worm. Considering most of the fight is you basically waiting for the thing to pop out of the ground (and hope you are in the right place to get a shot at it) i can only imagine how much of a chore it must have been to pull it off.

Bosses like this are ok the first time you do them but they aren't engaging enough to make you want to fight them again. It's basically just a gimmick fight, like the big walker you meet in chapter 1.

“Wahhhh you can’t do it without needle!!”
“Wahhhh I don’t wanna do it without needle”

I don't mind challenges and i can even enjoy showing off every now and then but i generally avoid doing anything that makes the game unfun for me, and having to hop around waiting to get a shot at the Ice Worm for 10 minutes would just be frustrating more than anything else.

It's not it cannot be done, it's that to do it you have to step out of the bounds of normal play. It's like people who beat bosses in Souls with their fists only. Sure it can be done, but it's not exactly advisable for most people.

[Kain]

Escrito originalmente por Magos Dominus:

If you think this boss is hard wait till the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that is the final boss of NG++

Actually is one of the most unfun boss experiences they've crafted since Bed of Chaos.

Still very vulnerable to meta weapons though.