After playing through all 3 endings now, I still don't see how the "bad" one is actually bad

[papanak]

I made a thread after NG and the Fires of Raven ending not understanding why it was bad. Most people didn't agree with me so I was interested about the other two.

The only good thing about Liberator is that Rusty fights with you. I don't know about everyone else, but I really didn't give a ♥♥♥♥ nor like the Liberation Front. Corps exploited Coral, while they used it as a drug and based their religion around it.

The ending doesn't even resolve anything. The plant is still there sucking everything up, the corporations and even the PCA can just regroup and return later.

Woohoo, we saved the Coral so the junkie zealots can abide in it.

The NG++ ending is even worse. Rusty doesn't even show up which is enough of an argument. Joking aside, siding with an AI that pulled the strings is the most anti Raven thing you can do. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ everyone up, having said AI turn on you, and then still going with their plan to force symbiosis upon countless star systems.

People were ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ high grounding me, saying that I am genocidal for liking the Fires of Raven ending, and all the while that high ground was forcing symbiosis with an alien entity upon everyone?!? Really?!? You really think that glassing one star system occupied by corps and junkies is worse than forcing some kind of evolution upon everything?

"Ooh but the fires don't actually burn all the Coral, it will return again". Ok. We will burn it again. And again.

Feed the fire. Let the last cinders burn.

[HypetheKomodo]

It's not 'bad' per se. Coral is clearly a very dangerous substance and the risk of it spreading across the universe is a real one. No one knows exactly what would happen with a Coral Release.

And it's very reasonable some folks would rather not find out.

[Sinicero]

It's bad for several reason :

-Drive by fear, you burn away everything: The people , the coral, the potential of something new.
-Driven by fear: You reject Ayre, reject an entire NEW SENTIENT species, reject a chance for people of SYSTEM RUBICON (not just planet Rubicon 3) You basically scorch AT LEAST 3 planet at the same time, rendering that entire system barren.
-In the end, humanity feared of what you have done, decide to never go to Rubicon ever again....for now....
-Maybe it was all for nothing, coral could still be there somewhere, and all those that fear it will be gone when the time it return.

Driven by fear, yet everything you do, is basically meaningless, and the cost is basically everything.

Well i don't think i need to explain the other 2 ending.

[Sinicero]

Originally posted by Kurobon:

In another, Coral infects all living things and achieve symbiosis, essentially the end of the complete universe. This is the worst ending.

.

The true ending basically "Nobody know what is going to happen, it's basically new frontier for both humanity and coral-ity(?)" . I have no idea how you get to the conclusion that the universe is ending.

The 1st ending "Fire of raven" is exactly what Status-quo is: You burn the coral, and humanity return to doing what it is doing.

The 2nd ending at least saw the Rubiconian regain their independence and there is hope for both humanity and Coral to understand each other better rather than LMAO YOLO like in the true ending.


In any case, i think the true ending will never be a canon one, just like how with every other game from FS. But both 1st and 2nd one could.

[Chaoz]

Criticizes us for being puppeteered by an AI, making us the opposite of a Raven, yet defends the option where we do everything the Overseers say. Liberator of Rubicon has 621 making their own choices, or as Walter said, finding their freedom. "No, they're obeying Ayre" Ayre isn't their Handler, not their boss, yet 621 chose to go their route regardless, that's why it's their own choice. Also, drug addicts are RaD, they're their own faction that as far as I am aware is separate from and not allied with the Liberation Front.

The chance of unlocking something greater with Coral and *not* killing millions seems favorable compared to genocide and possible end of the universe as we know it. Plus, endings depend on how you view the Coral so I'd have to agree with Geno that ultimately it's subjective which endings are good or bad (especially with Coral Release since we don't even fully know the scope of what it did/will do)

[Kurobon]

In one ending, the planet dies. Everything suggest the Coral ceased to exist or the situation is permanently solved. The narrative suggests that a historically relevant amount of time passed; Raven did not return, and PCA and corporations ceased Coral operations indefinitely. The Fires of Raven event was orchestrated by the Overseer, which are legacy Institute researchers that spent decades orchestrating a definitive blow to Coral. Succeeding in this plan implies elimination of Coral. Whereas Fires of Ibis motivated corporations and PCA to invade Rubicon, Fires of Raven motivated them to desist operations permanently.

In this ending, Walter meets a fitting end, he dies being enslaved by a corporation while he was a slaver himself. It is explicitly stated that Carla and Walter use Coral as drugs to manipulate people; Walter quite literally handle junkie augmented persons that he treats like dogs, he tells you so at the beginning of the game. You also get to murder the demon in your head that wants to consume the universe and make symbiosis with it and lived free without ever being found. This is not a "good" ending, but this is objectively the best outcome.

In another ending, the complete universe ceases to exist as it was previously known. Coral infects all life forms, leading to universal symbiosis and potentially spelling the end of existence, Worst outcome. Remember, the game implies Coral can and do make symbiosis with humans. The game does not depict humans (except in drawings), just mechs, but humans were affected as well.

In a third ending, the status quo persists. Drug addicts continue to inhabit the planet, abusing Coral for sustenance. Corporations and PCA will return to exploit Coral, it's a matter of time, and so will AllMind. The only positive aspect is the opportunity to enjoy Coral-infested beaches with Rusty on tiny swimsuits.

[MadArtillery]

God the Arye ending I ended up doing in NG+ was aweful. Killing Carla and Chatty felt terrible, still feel a bit sick about that, and the recycled bosses certainly didn't do anything for the bitter taste in my mouth. Still pissed at rusty over the tunnel fight and the ♥♥♥♥ he likes to talk in it so clobbering that suddenly pompous bastard felt good in the other ending atleast. Guy definitely needed an attitude readjustment, guess he spent too much time around Snail. Things actually get resolved to boot, and loved that closing message from my boy Walter.

Haven't finished NG++ yet so we'll see how that goes, for now though the moral of the story is don't listen to the voices in your head telling you to kill your friends.

[Kurobon]

Originally posted by Sinicero:

Originally posted by Kurobon:

In another, Coral infects all living things and achieve symbiosis, essentially the end of the complete universe. This is the worst ending.

.

The true ending basically "Nobody know what is going to happen, it's basically new frontier for both humanity and coral-ity(?)" . I have no idea how you get to the conclusion that the universe is ending.

The 1st ending "Fire of raven" is exactly what Status-quo is: You burn the coral, and humanity return to doing what it is doing.

The 2nd ending at least saw the Rubiconian regain their independence and there is hope for both humanity and Coral to understand each other better rather than LMAO YOLO like in the true ending.


In any case, i think the true ending will never be a canon one, just like how with every other game from FS. But both 1st and 2nd one could.

You know exactly where the idea is, don't be a dumbass. The end of the universe as it was known ended, everything is now infested with an alien organism.

[Sinicero]

Originally posted by Chaoz:

The chance of unlocking something greater with Coral and *not* killing millions seems favorable compared to genocide and possible end of the universe as we know it. Plus, endings depend on how you view the Coral so I'd have to agree with Geno that ultimately it's subjective which endings are good or bad (especially with Coral Release since we don't even fully know the scope of what it did/will do)

The FoR ending is basically decided to not even try.

There were no confirmation that Coral is completely burn away.

Everybody dead. Rubicon system abandoned.

You are the monster of genocidal feat just because you feared something you didn't understand just like Walter, Carla, Thumb, O keffle.

NOTE: In Allmind route, there are EVIDENCE that corpo did take at least 1.6% of coral and you were commissioned to stop that.

Meaning in FoR ending, there could be coral smuggled out of the system and continue to exist in corpo lab.

Making FoR ending even WORSE, since all that you do is meaningless.

[Sinicero]

[quote=Kurobon;3827552253834496539

You know exactly where the idea is, don't be a dumbass. The end of the universe as it was known ended, everything is now infested with an alien organism. [/quote]

You didn't said it like that in the beginning. Don't blame me if i misunderstood your point.

[HypetheKomodo]

Hey, you leave Chatty out of this. He's just doing what he's programmed to do.

You gotta see it from Overseer's perspective: Coral kills things. It kills them proper good. When used for augmentation it often causes severe mental instability. When used as fuel it's very combustible in every possible sense. When used as a weapon it's highly destructive.

To them, Coral is too dangerous to ever be used, and it has to go. They never made Contact with anything, they don't know that Coral...lives.

[Otterking]

All the endings can be considered bad.

Genocide an entire star system to insure coral will never threaten humanity.

Enforce the status quo, nothing is solved and corps will be back/coral can still be a threat

Spread coral throughout the universe and irreversibly alter humanity. We don't know the exact details but you might have genocided life as we know it in the universe and replaced it with a coral hivemind that absorbed everything.

All endings make you feel sad especially since all your friends end up dying in all of them except Ayre. So I don't think any ending was intended to be "good".

[Kurobon]

Originally posted by Sinicero:

Originally posted by Chaoz:

The chance of unlocking something greater with Coral and *not* killing millions seems favorable compared to genocide and possible end of the universe as we know it. Plus, endings depend on how you view the Coral so I'd have to agree with Geno that ultimately it's subjective which endings are good or bad (especially with Coral Release since we don't even fully know the scope of what it did/will do)

Meaning in FoR ending, there could be coral smuggled out of the system and continue to exist in corpo lab.

This is not possible, the corpos agrees to cease and desist Coral activities, explicitly stated in FoR. You are recruited there because of your choices but there's the other Raven, mercenaries, and Kate. This was probably handled by someone else.

[Sinicero]

Originally posted by HypetheKomodo:

Hey, you leave Chatty out of this. He's just doing what he's programmed to do.

You gotta see it from Overseer's perspective: Coral kills things. It kills them proper good. When used for augmentation it often causes severe mental instability. When used as fuel it's very combustible in every possible sense. When used as a weapon it's highly destructive.

To them, Coral is too dangerous to ever be used, and it has to go. They never made Contact with anything, they don't know that Coral...lives.

The overseer perspective is just as valid as other perspective.

But what matter is the result of what you choose to believe in.

IMO, FoR ending is the worst ending compare to other 2 ending.

Cast the dice ending is debatable since it's basically "Unknown ending"

And LoR ending is somewhat hopeful.

[Sinicero]

Originally posted by Kurobon:

Originally posted by Sinicero:

Meaning in FoR ending, there could be coral smuggled out of the system and continue to exist in corpo lab.

This is not possible, the corpos agrees to cease and desist Coral activities, explicitly stated in FoR. You are recruited there because of your choices but there's the other Raven, mercenaries, and Kate. This was probably handled by someone else.

They stated that they cease to COME to rubicon, not cease anything related to coral.

If it doesn't stated in the game then everything is possible, which is why i said it's possible.

[Khzu]

I hate to say it but much like many of the soulsborne games. The "Bad" ending has always been restarting the cycle. Whether it is hollows, ashen-ed ones, hunters or tarnished. To only claim the throne and become the new lord only brings about a new age destined to fall and have a new champion challenge. These ending achieve nothing hence you fight yourself as an amalgamation of all the previous lord of cinders in dark souls 3 from DS1. Much like Walter's professor, he is now repeating the cycle of burning the coral. Whether this is "Bad" is completely up to you but one thing is for sure. Like the first fire, the fear only lasts so long until corporations and pilots like Raven investigate the plant again and leak that coral still exists.

So what makes the liberator ending "good"?, you have prevented the cycle from repeating. Rubicon is free from corporations and outside force. You are a protector and deterrent. You are now the new Thumb Dolmayan so have great influence, enough to re-direct the cult mentality and prevent coral release as Thumb Dolmayan intended. Rusty is basically your right hand man and he isn't a doser (Edit: Nvm, for some reason I forgot he is dead), same with middle flatwell so there is great opportunity for change. Basically, a bright future to look forward to. However, Ayre could be alluding to coral release when she says that you can find a way to co-exist together. Or maybe you find something completely different, or nothing at all, can't say.

I have seen a lot of people call the NG++ ending the true ending. Not sure if it is cannon but it is very true to a lot of the old gen games: Raven starts out as a noob, proves their worth through missions and an AI pulling the strings decides they're too dangerous: ''Those who wield too much power...those who only bring chaos...they are simply not part of the program. I was created to protect mankind and this world. I intend to fulfil this task.'' - Nineball. This is very much the true "Raven" route. To ultimately choose to break free from control, not repeat or prevent but simply break the cycle and start a new path all together. This is what all the old gen AC game's Ravens did vs Nineball, the controller and Ibis.

Aside: Similar to Ranni's ending, breaking away from the golden order into the unknown where an outer god no longer rules is one of the "best" endings. As apposed to some iteration of the golden order. But that is just my opinion.

There really is no black and white. Just many shades of grey with objective truths to consider behind each ending.