Why are stun needles so op

[R4-D10]

like they completely destroy almost every boss and enemy

[dgresevfan]

Pfft.

What do you mean, "almost"?

[ImHelping]

So, the real answer is that nearly every other back weapon has mediocre direct hit power.

Needle cannon has barely more damage than a laser cannon. Needle cannon can still deflect off of staggered late game enemies that hurl themselves a mile away after you tagger them with a kick because it is still kinetic.

Needle cannon has one of the biggest direct hit multipliers in the game, and fires in a straight line. While airquotes "overpowred" songbirds will miss an air staggered target by shooting both mini grenades around them instead of into them.

It is not "Oh also it does a little lightning damage" at play. It is the fact needle cannons are the only reliable "Boss now staggered. smack boss while staggered" button. In a game where even if you kick one into a stagger, they can recover fast enough to still dodge a follow up blade attack half the time.

Earshot grenade is the single biggest explosion in the game outside of charged coral missile. Earshot grenade is near or literally twice the damage of stun needle cannon. Earshot grenade basically tickles the NG++ second form after a stagger for roughly the same damage as KICKING other bosses. Because of direct hit multipliers.

But because the stun cannon ISN'T GARBAGE, on top of having big drain and weight. people mistake that for overpowered. Most people calling it OP suffer by trying to spam it instead of alternating so they have a shot ready and waiting for after their target staggers, and instead have them on cooldown.

This is also why twin laser cannon tanks work better than they sound. passable direct hits, weaker than stun cannon, but you can chain fire them a few times before they overheat so are better for "Cause stagger, then keep shooting" tactics.

[DukeLite]

High Direct hit adjustment and interval between firing and impacted time is very short.

a bit minor delay when you pressed fire for around 0.3 sec that still able to snap to target correction.

[Aura Enterpr//se]

Stun needles are OP yes till you face heated scenarios and bosses like Ibis. In heated scenarios as in facing a crowd of enemies and multiple ACs at once, Dual Zimmers and Needles just can't keep up and I have to go with another build which is a lot more efficient and actually kill faster (The combo of charging Laser Lance and Laser dagger is just insane)

[Abysswalker]

Same could be said about double gatling guns. There is a lot of broken stuff in this game but I am having fun with it.

[Obsidus]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

So, the real answer is that nearly every other back weapon has mediocre direct hit power.

Needle cannon has barely more damage than a laser cannon. Needle cannon can still deflect off of staggered late game enemies that hurl themselves a mile away after you tagger them with a kick because it is still kinetic.

Needle cannon has one of the biggest direct hit multipliers in the game, and fires in a straight line. While airquotes "overpowred" songbirds will miss an air staggered target by shooting both mini grenades around them instead of into them.

It is not "Oh also it does a little lightning damage" at play. It is the fact needle cannons are the only reliable "Boss now staggered. smack boss while staggered" button. In a game where even if you kick one into a stagger, they can recover fast enough to still dodge a follow up blade attack half the time.

Earshot grenade is the single biggest explosion in the game outside of charged coral missile. Earshot grenade is near or literally twice the damage of stun needle cannon. Earshot grenade basically tickles the NG++ second form after a stagger for roughly the same damage as KICKING other bosses. Because of direct hit multipliers.

But because the stun cannon ISN'T GARBAGE, on top of having big drain and weight. people mistake that for overpowered. Most people calling it OP suffer by trying to spam it instead of alternating so they have a shot ready and waiting for after their target staggers, and instead have them on cooldown.

This is also why twin laser cannon tanks work better than they sound. passable direct hits, weaker than stun cannon, but you can chain fire them a few times before they overheat so are better for "Cause stagger, then keep shooting" tactics.

Great post. No weapons in this game are OP...MANY weapons in this game suck, and bosses do cheezy stuff that makes it worse.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Obsidus:

Originally posted by ImHelping:

So, the real answer is that nearly every other back weapon has mediocre direct hit power.

Needle cannon has barely more damage than a laser cannon. Needle cannon can still deflect off of staggered late game enemies that hurl themselves a mile away after you tagger them with a kick because it is still kinetic.

Needle cannon has one of the biggest direct hit multipliers in the game, and fires in a straight line. While airquotes "overpowred" songbirds will miss an air staggered target by shooting both mini grenades around them instead of into them.

It is not "Oh also it does a little lightning damage" at play. It is the fact needle cannons are the only reliable "Boss now staggered. smack boss while staggered" button. In a game where even if you kick one into a stagger, they can recover fast enough to still dodge a follow up blade attack half the time.

Earshot grenade is the single biggest explosion in the game outside of charged coral missile. Earshot grenade is near or literally twice the damage of stun needle cannon. Earshot grenade basically tickles the NG++ second form after a stagger for roughly the same damage as KICKING other bosses. Because of direct hit multipliers.

But because the stun cannon ISN'T GARBAGE, on top of having big drain and weight. people mistake that for overpowered. Most people calling it OP suffer by trying to spam it instead of alternating so they have a shot ready and waiting for after their target staggers, and instead have them on cooldown.

This is also why twin laser cannon tanks work better than they sound. passable direct hits, weaker than stun cannon, but you can chain fire them a few times before they overheat so are better for "Cause stagger, then keep shooting" tactics.

Great post. No weapons in this game are OP...MANY weapons in this game suck, and bosses do cheezy stuff that makes it worse.

This is probably why the humble machinegun works surprisingly well even on final bosses. Can't input read to perfect dodge, no long cooldowns like the chaingun. Better against boss pulse shields than pulse weapons because it does not overheat after 1.2 seconds against a shield better than anything you get (back pulse cannon is great on NORMAL pulse shields AC players have to activate manually, at least).

Regular shotgun is just trash though. "I have followed somebody and shot them in the back of the head 6 times for essentially ♥♥♥♥ all. They didn't even turn around until I kicked them."

[MadArtillery]

Overtuned, they deal solid damage base with the electric burst + normal shot damage, they do high stagger as both the shock and the hit itself deal good stagger damage, and they also have a high damage multiplier on staggered enemies. They do litterally everything top tier without any failings. Reduce any one of those sections and they'd probably be balanced.

[BookItFaster]

I use flame throwers never had these problems

[Salty Sis' 4U]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

So, the real answer is that nearly every other back weapon has mediocre direct hit power.

Needle cannon has barely more damage than a laser cannon. Needle cannon can still deflect off of staggered late game enemies that hurl themselves a mile away after you tagger them with a kick because it is still kinetic.

Needle cannon has one of the biggest direct hit multipliers in the game, and fires in a straight line. While airquotes "overpowred" songbirds will miss an air staggered target by shooting both mini grenades around them instead of into them.

It is not "Oh also it does a little lightning damage" at play. It is the fact needle cannons are the only reliable "Boss now staggered. smack boss while staggered" button. In a game where even if you kick one into a stagger, they can recover fast enough to still dodge a follow up blade attack half the time.

Earshot grenade is the single biggest explosion in the game outside of charged coral missile. Earshot grenade is near or literally twice the damage of stun needle cannon. Earshot grenade basically tickles the NG++ second form after a stagger for roughly the same damage as KICKING other bosses. Because of direct hit multipliers.

But because the stun cannon ISN'T GARBAGE, on top of having big drain and weight. people mistake that for overpowered. Most people calling it OP suffer by trying to spam it instead of alternating so they have a shot ready and waiting for after their target staggers, and instead have them on cooldown.

This is also why twin laser cannon tanks work better than they sound. passable direct hits, weaker than stun cannon, but you can chain fire them a few times before they overheat so are better for "Cause stagger, then keep shooting" tactics.

I mean, the main things that makes them stronk are:
1. They deal a chonk of damage via their status that ignores armor, dealing flat damage to HP. For bosses with lower HP and high armor, this is HUGE.
2. They deal the best critical damage to staggered enemies possible.
3. They have a fairly decent ammo capacity.

They do have some issues though, primarily their massive power draw and substantial weight... But for mid-heavy mechs utilizing a Coral generator, it's manageable so long as the arms, legs and carried weapons aside from them aren't too badly balanced.

They also lack AoE crowd-clearing potential, as they're mostly balanced for single-target elimination.

[HypetheKomodo]

They're strong, especially for a free part, but I don't think they're OP. They're extremely energy hungry and non Tetras/Tanks have to take a stance to fire.

You'll have to make some sacrifices to sling those needles, mostly to aerial/QB/AB mobility due to the energy consumption.

[Salty Sis' 4U]

Originally posted by MadArtillery:

Overtuned, they deal solid damage base with the electric burst + normal shot damage, they do high stagger as both the shock and the hit itself deal good stagger damage, and they also have a high damage multiplier on staggered enemies. They do litterally everything top tier without any failings. Reduce any one of those sections and they'd probably be balanced.

My good sir, their primary flaw is that if you fail to use them on staggered targets they're kinda not all that amazing?
You can use them to stagger targets too, but they're not so effective at this unless you fire both at once... Which means potentially missing both shots in one go.
Their most effective use is pretty well when used in tandem, whether to initiate or take advantage of a stagger.

With only one, they're kinda meh.
If you've only got the weight/power for one weapon of similar values, I'd suggest the shoulder-mounted heavy cannon. Deals less critical damage, but has super high raw damage in an AoE.

[Salty Sis' 4U]

Originally posted by Abysswalker:

Same could be said about double gatling guns. There is a lot of broken stuff in this game but I am having fun with it.

Nothing is broken tho', it all has a thing it does well and scenarios where it fails...

Like, chainguns do decent damage and stagger, but they have awful penetration versus mid-heavy armor beyond CQC range and have a tendency to bounce off of heavy and ultraheavy armor outright. Their heat also makes them kinda crap unless you're swapping to shoulder bays when they actually overheat.

[MadArtillery]

Originally posted by Salty Sis' 4U:

Originally posted by MadArtillery:

Overtuned, they deal solid damage base with the electric burst + normal shot damage, they do high stagger as both the shock and the hit itself deal good stagger damage, and they also have a high damage multiplier on staggered enemies. They do litterally everything top tier without any failings. Reduce any one of those sections and they'd probably be balanced.

My good sir, their primary flaw is that if you fail to use them on staggered targets they're kinda not all that amazing?
You can use them to stagger targets too, but they're not so effective at this unless you fire both at once... Which means potentially missing both shots in one go.
Their most effective use is pretty well when used in tandem, whether to initiate or take advantage of a stagger.

With only one, they're kinda meh.
If you've only got the weight/power for one weapon of similar values, I'd suggest the shoulder-mounted heavy cannon. Deals less critical damage, but has super high raw damage in an AoE.

Have you ever actually used the thing? Normal shots tear apart both pvp and pve with just a single one and a lot of the time you can put another shot in if it's the zap that staggers not the main shot and get the benefits of both! If your gonna post like you use it at least use it.

The zap being a delayed stagger is probably their strongest feature! So many follow up combos knowing exactly when the stagger is coming without the possibility to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it up with a missed hit and able to ready up or charge whatever you want as a follow up and time it perfectly with the stagger animation. Freest follow up deathblow ever and can even self combo.

[Wutever]

Originally posted by Melon Sc//ence:

Stun needles are OP yes till you face heated scenarios and bosses like Ibis. In heated scenarios as in facing a crowd of enemies and multiple ACs at once, Dual Zimmers and Needles just can't keep up and I have to go with another build which is a lot more efficient and actually kill faster (The combo of charging Laser Lance and Laser dagger is just insane)

https://youtu.be/d7EO6PGggdg?si=Tq5_1hmu6aDCaSL5
Are we both playing the same game?

Same goes for multi-AC fights. You just delete one of them instantly then take your time with the rest. Sure, Pile Bunker does more damage, but Stun Needles are more reliable because you can shoot them from a mile away.