Tried some of the buffed rifles with the nerfed bosses

[Loop_Stratos]

Balteus/RANSETSU-RF: Got it first try. Felt much weaker overall, Granted pre-patch I tried to fight it with the starter AC (although I gave up halfway through) but pre-patch I feel like I would've taken much more damage from the missiles. I felt like my positioning was really bad during the run.

RANSETSU-RF feels pretty powerful too, although it might just be because the mission is early game.

Sea Spider/RANSETSU-AR: Third try, died twice. I can't tell you what got changed even if I wanted to.

RANSETSU-AR was okay? Unfortunately there's no way you could miss this boss as long as you're locked on so I don't know about accuracy.

CEL 240/SCUDDER: First try too. Definitely much weaker in attack frequency and blade wave velocity. Again I also did this boss a number of times pre-patch too which might have helped. Got careless during second phase after seeing how little damage I took in first phase though, which was bad news.

SCUDDER was pretty good, I don't know how G3/V.VI compares to Sulla but it feels like it can compete with RANSETSU-RF. I also used SCUDDER+missiles during my first run against CEL 240, and compared to the more missile-reliant first run it feels stronger this time.

Amateur recording on a whim:
https://youtu.be/WAPU5idV9H8?si=W4wKRvxOK5kuQi4t

Here's one of the times I did pre-patch CEL 240 for reference, not very relevant to the topic though, and CEL 240 is only like 1/6th of the video so spoiler tags. Excuse the really bad gameplay if you do decide to watch. Not sure if it's Ibis getting weaker or assaults staggering better than lasers, but it did felt a lot easier after the update. I guess it's worth mentioning two 66LRBs weigh a ton too, which kills my mobility.

https://youtu.be/6Vhu4Cv7tjo?si=01rJefVXZIlc362V

[Zynryuk]

It is as if, by playing the game, you've unconsciously grown more confident in your abilities. So, the game hasn't gotten any easier because of 'nerfs', but because -you got better- at it, time after time.

Crazy! I know.

[Wutever]

The Ransetsu-RF is pretty good now, especially if you run two of them. They have a big enough mag to stagger an AC twice without a reload and deal decent damage now. Its biggest strength is that it has like no recoil for the rate of fire it has so you can run almost any arms with it and do well, while something like the Curtis that fills a similar role needs arms with decent recoil control or it becomes inaccurate at like 100 meters already.

No idea what you're smoking regarding the Ransetsu-AR and Scudder though. Both are just significantly worse versions of the RF and generally awful. Worse range, meh damage, no stagger.

The one thing that the Scudder has going for it is that it's light and with decent range. It might find some use as a chip damage weapon to stop the stagger bar from resetting, but only if you are really limited in available weight.

I'm pretty convinced that mid-range guns will never be good in AC6. The engagement range is so compressed that you might as well run a close range gun with much better DPS than a mid-range one. The Etsujins absolutely shred now.

[BKo]

Scudders could easily do Ibis even before the patch. That's how I beat her.

[Wutever]

Originally posted by BKo:

Scudders could easily do Ibis even before the patch. That's how I beat her.

So can fists, Mad Stomp and probably the starter AC. Your point?

[Loop_Stratos]

Originally posted by Wutever:

The Ransetsu-RF is pretty good now, especially if you run two of them. They have a big enough mag to stagger an AC twice without a reload and deal decent damage now. Its biggest strength is that it has like no recoil for the rate of fire it has so you can run almost any arms with it and do well, while something like the Curtis that fills a similar role needs arms with decent recoil control or it becomes inaccurate at like 100 meters already.

No idea what you're smoking regarding the Ransetsu-AR and Scudder though. Both are just significantly worse versions of the RF and generally awful. Worse range, meh damage, no stagger.

The one thing that the Scudder has going for it is that it's light and with decent range. It might find some use as a chip damage weapon to stop the stagger bar from resetting, but only if you are really limited in available weight.

I'm pretty convinced that mid-range guns will never be good in AC6. The engagement range is so compressed that you might as well run a close range gun with much better DPS than a mid-range one. The Etsujins absolutely shred now.

Yeah the RANSETSU-RF is probably the best one, but SCUDDER also feels like it does well enoguh to be used if you don't want to kill your fingers (I hate the charge mechanic just because of this). I did get the feeling RANSETSU-AR wasn't that good though, I just couldn't tell whether it was the Sea Spider just being bulky or whether it was underperforming.

Unfortunately have to agree about mid-range. I did 4/FA with assault rifles, and V/VD with almost exclusively rifle for KE/battle rifle for TE/laser rifle for CE, so I miss that kind of ranged combat. Will probably try out the machine guns tomorrow, I already tried LUDLOWs on PvP a little as support for when enemies get closer and I can feel the potential.

[PK_Thunder]

Most of the rifles are still bad. The burst fire SMG however is actually decent.

[HypetheKomodo]

SCUDDERs are actually pretty slapping now. I used to go double HARRIS but I'm kinda tired of killing my trigger buttons. Even hold their own in PvP as long as you aren't eating ZIMMERs to the face.

[Loop_Stratos]

Originally posted by PK_Thunder:

Most of the rifles are still bad. The burst fire SMG however is actually decent.

I haven't tried the burst machine gun so I can't say anything, but how does it compare to the other two machine guns for you?

[Wutever]

Originally posted by Loop_Stratos:

Originally posted by PK_Thunder:

Most of the rifles are still bad. The burst fire SMG however is actually decent.

I haven't tried the burst machine gun so I can't say anything, but how does it compare to the other two machine guns for you?

Etsujin is Zimmer tier, especially considering it weighs much less than an actual Zimmer. Ludlow is OK. Very good for somebody starting a fresh playthrough.
Chang-Chen has too much recoil and somehow less range and DPS than a Ludlow. Fromsoft? Hello?

[PK_Thunder]

Originally posted by Loop_Stratos:

Originally posted by PK_Thunder:

Most of the rifles are still bad. The burst fire SMG however is actually decent.

I haven't tried the burst machine gun so I can't say anything, but how does it compare to the other two machine guns for you?

Like the other guy said above the Etsujin is quite good. It's a great way to get some stagger pressure at a pretty light weight budget.

[Wutever]

Actually, I changed my mind on the Chang-Chen. At least against IBIS the extra magazine size really comes in handy even with the slightly lower DPS and range. It puts out a lot of pressure and you don't really have to worry about reloads most of the time.
I'd say the ranking would be:
Etsujin > Chang-Chen >= Ludlow

All in all the SMGs are pretty nice now.