How would you nerf the Zimm?

[Sinicero]

From 2.3 to 3.3 reload?
Reduce accumulate imact?
Reduce direct impact?
Reduce direct adjust?
Reduce neutral damage?
Or multiple stats reduce but with small adjustment?

Or better yet, buffing mid and long range weapon?

[Sinicero]

Originally posted by OTSEchoZenLogos:

The Zimmerman doesn't need a big nerf, but I do think it needs a minor one.

If I were to balance it, I would probably recommend just a slight reduction in reload time and impact damage. Something like 0.3 seconds longer reload and 10%-15% less impact.

Maybe reduce the weight very slightly as well, by like 5%. Reducing the weight is a buff, but I think it would be justifiable in this case as it would also let a "weakened" Zimmerman be used on a wider variety of builds more easily.

The main issue I have with the Zimmermans honestly isn't with the Zimmermans themselves, so much as the fact that other weapons aren't up to that standard at similar ranges. It can hit as hard as constantly firing things like machine guns against a stationary target, yet is far easier to hit with because you can time your shots rather than needing to hit many smaller shots over time. Other shotguns also are just weaker overall - the smaller shotgun has no use case I can think of due to its pitiful range and weaker damage (even with a shorter cooldown), and the sweet sixteen has so much spread that it ends up being nearly impossible to take advantage of except vs staggered enemies (at that point a pile bunker or other melee weapon would be better though).

Agree with what you said.

If they decide zimm is working as intended, we need more option in midrange or better option in close range because at this point zim is too good and other option isn't up to pair

[This PC]

Originally posted by Sinicero:

I mean i already pvp like only 60h?

Harris kinda meh, while zimm dominate? I don't even have to back it up myself since there are people doing it for me in youtube?

Testing against immoble target AND the Harris still lose out is pretty good argument don't cha think? Cuz moving target = harder to hit with Harrish.

And also, you don't even have to care about recoil with Zimm lmao. There is no need to worry about that since you don't even rapid shooting while harris have to.

Can you link me a fast kill like mine with dual zimms ? I see a lot of fast melee kills, but that's not what we're discussing here. Best I can find is an equivalent kill with stun dart + 2 zimms.

[Sinicero]

Originally posted by This PC:

Originally posted by Sinicero:

I mean i already pvp like only 60h?

Harris kinda meh, while zimm dominate? I don't even have to back it up myself since there are people doing it for me in youtube?

Testing against immoble target AND the Harris still lose out is pretty good argument don't cha think? Cuz moving target = harder to hit with Harrish.

And also, you don't even have to care about recoil with Zimm lmao. There is no need to worry about that since you don't even rapid shooting while harris have to.

Can you link me a fast kill like mine with dual zimms ? I see a lot of fast melee kills, but that's not what we're discussing here.

Against Ibis or against people?

I think people don't record zimm vs ibis since it's too easy so the best i could find is this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvvtD1avz5w&ab_channel=Koecheng

But if you want against people i can give plenty of example.

Btw we are not talking about pve. PVE is whatever, zimm is top tier but not the best for every sits and nobody care.

[This PC]

Originally posted by Sinicero:

Originally posted by This PC:

Can you link me a fast kill like mine with dual zimms ? I see a lot of fast melee kills, but that's not what we're discussing here.

Against Ibis or against people?

I think people don't record zimm vs ibis since it's too easy so the best i could find is this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvvtD1avz5w&ab_channel=Koecheng

But if you want against people i can give plenty of example.

That's not a better kill ? You told me there's sub 1 minute zimmerman kills out there.
And then, in PVP, I fight plenty of zimms np, just need to stay away from them.
I do have ~30h of pvp experience myself, zimms are annoying because they really force me to use my best game to stay away from them (isn't that how shotguns should work ? rofl), but everytime I die on zimmermans, I can definitely see something I could've done better, it's not like "♥♥♥♥ zimmermans" like missile boats that fly 7 km above arena.

And then again, majority of time in pvp, it's not the zimmermans themselves that kill me, it's a follow up.

Originally posted by Sinicero:

Btw we are not talking about pve. PVE is whatever, zimm is top tier but not the best for every sits and nobody care.

You're moving the goalposts there. You were caring about tester AC like, few posts ago.

[Kalsu]

Should be a staggering weapon and lower the damage to ac

[Tustle]

Change the prefix in their name to "IN-VDR" and have their sound effects voiced by Richard Steven Horvitz.

Or would that be considered a buff?

...seriously though raise the range of everything else a little.

[Sinicero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNj5Fj3zLXk&ab_channel=CelticSpear

I think this is an important factor in this too. AB does compliment TOO WELL for close range combat. and offer next to nothing to other range combat.

[Aradner]

I wouldn't nerf ♥♥♥♥, just buff the other weapons, and make long range more viable, like faster projectile travel time

[Sinicero]

Originally posted by This PC:

Originally posted by Sinicero:

Against Ibis or against people?

I think people don't record zimm vs ibis since it's too easy so the best i could find is this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvvtD1avz5w&ab_channel=Koecheng

But if you want against people i can give plenty of example.

Btw we are not talking about pve. PVE is whatever, zimm is top tier but not the best for every sits and nobody care.

That's not a better kill ? You told me there's sub 1 minute zimmerman kills out there.
And then, in PVP, I fight plenty of zimms np, just need to stay away from them.
I do have ~30h of pvp experience myself, zimms are annoying because they really force me to use my best game to stay away from them (isn't that how shotguns should work ? rofl), but everytime I die on zimmermans, I can definitely see something I could've done better, it's not like "♥♥♥♥ zimmermans" like missile boats that fly 7 km above arena.

And then again, majority of time in pvp, it's not the zimmermans themselves that kill me, it's a follow up.

I told you i did sub 1min (well tbh i think so), not this guy, this guy use a kinda meh set up. But tbh, minus the cutscene, he probably did sub 2min anw.

[Señor Brown]

Originally posted by This PC:

Originally posted by Sinicero:

Bringing in ibis mean nothing, people already kill her with jail break.

Just because you can kill her with ♥♥♥♥ gear (i did) doesn't refute the fact that Zimm is the best weapon currently.

Maybe 20 secs nightfall kill will convince you ?
Again, point is not to say zimms are bad, point is to demonstrate that other weapons can do just as good. Not afraid to tackle any of your ttk's with zimms, I don't think I can compete with melee on top however.
https://youtu.be/YnpnpKh_08I

Do you have videos for all missions with S-rank and only using that specific build (excluding gimmicks like Illegal Entry, etc.)?

[This PC]

Originally posted by Sinicero:

I told you i did sub 1min (well tbh i think so), not this guy, this guy use a kinda meh set up. But tbh, minus the cutscene, he probably did sub 2min anw.

My kill includes cutscene too, ibis dies at 2:17, Ibis dies at 2:28 for him. My kill has 7 seconds of downtime at the start, his has about 2.

[This PC]

Originally posted by Señor Brown:

Do you have videos for all missions with S-rank and only using that specific build (excluding gimmicks like Illegal Entry, etc.)?

Man that's a tall order. x)
I am fairly confident I can accomplish that with a lot of time, yes.
I haven't looked to S-Rank everything because I don't see the point.
But like, again, that's moving the goalposts, I don't think I need to S-Rank everything to prove that some ♥♥♥♥ is as good and perhaps even better than zimms, and has anyone S-Ranked everything with dual zimms without using melee ? ;p

Perhaps I can deliver if you give me some select missions that you think will challenge this, am always up for a challenge/backing up my word. :D
I reserve the right to switch stuff besides my weapons, like, tank threads really aren't adapted for everything.

[XucroseBee]

I would say increase reload time, increase weight and decrease impact. Leave the damage alone! I feel like this is the best way to deal with the issue. Buff other weapons while increasing weight, there's a reason we have multiple versions of a weapon and different weight classes. Everything is way too similar and useless right now.

[Sinicero]

Originally posted by This PC:

Originally posted by Sinicero:

I told you i did sub 1min (well tbh i think so), not this guy, this guy use a kinda meh set up. But tbh, minus the cutscene, he probably did sub 2min anw.

My kill includes cutscene too, ibis dies at 2:17, Ibis dies at 2:28 for him. My kill has 7 seconds of downtime at the start, his has about 2.

He doesn't even play perfectly. ANd he already so close to you. Lol

[This PC]

Originally posted by Sinicero:

He doesn't even play perfectly. ANd he already so close to you. Lol

Watch my kill again, and then tell me with a straight face I have been playing perfectly and I couldn't significantly tighten up, rofl. Also, I purposefully stayed at range on this kill, I wanted to show range is possible to people in another thread. I love reasonable challenges. Taking closer shots would probably help me. Like I said, the point isn't to say zimms are bad, just that other things perform just as good. I don't know why you're so invested in this, it doesn't diminish the value of zimms, am just showing other weapons can do excellent too. ♥

Your bar is "Zimms are significantly better than harris'", mine is "They do just as good", which that kill somewhat demonstrates, and am cool with that. ^^