What is the advantage of bipeds over reverse joint legs?

[SpaceGoat]

At first I exclusively ran reverse joint builds, but lately I have been experimenting with the regular bipeds. Of course bipeds have better defensive stats than reverse joints, that much is obvious.

But there is one thing I can't explain. Lightweight bipeds seem to be better at dodging enemy attacks than lightweight reverse joints.

I thought reverse joints would be the king of dodging until I tried reverse joints. After all, that bunnyhopping ability should be great for avoiding incoming fire, right? What possible advantage could regular bipeds have when it comes to movement?

Am I crazy or am I on to something? And if I am right, can anyone explain why?

[REBirthTheEdge]

Regular biped is the bog standard, it has more health and stability, that's it. It suits for building a tanky heavy assault that aren't tank treads.

Reverse joint has much lesser health, but much more agility and free jump means it saves energy too. Of course then you have the Spring Chicken (heavy RJ) so you can build a jumpy tanky AC too.

[overmage]

they're better than bipeds in 1v1 pvp because jumping can break target lock momentarily for 0 energy cost. For pve, yeah, not really a big difference because the AI is a cheating bastard

[SpaceGoat]

That's the thing though, my recent experience is telling me that regular bipeds are actually superior for dodging than reverse joints. It's possible I am crazy, so I am asking y'all if you see that too. And if I am right, why would this be?

[This PC]

Originally posted by overmage:

the AI is a cheating bastard

.. ?
I've been cooking off the salt around this game since it came out hahaha

[ImHelping]

While the obvious one is that most have higher load capacity than the heavy RJ, one thing often taken for granted is many bipeds have lower energy drain.

As a guy who loves absurdly high drain FCS (like the last log one you unlock with nearly 500 drain in exchange for well rounded stats on everything) and higher drain heads, I REALLY feel that

The basic non DLC melander legs don't suck at anything except jump height, but their total weight and low drain loads mean those visibly chunky legs can still lead to builds of 300-350 boost speed, but their quick and jump boosting will obviously be weaker.

many "Actually light bipeds" have it rougher on load strain than the mid grade RJ, And the biggest dodge stat light legs while better at dodging than other bipeds, still have weaker dodges than RJ

The misleading "Jump distance" stat is actually your quick boost distance modifier, if you check the context help. The obvious benefit of RJ is bigger vertical jumps. the NON obvious benefit of RJ is bigger quick boosts even with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ quick boost thruster.

Go to the test room and face the hollowed out wall sections. a difference in legs can make a sideways quickboost clear an entire wall section worth of distance or more due to the "jump distance" stat.

You might not notice in a wide open arena or frozen field. But that difference can be what lets you evade splash damage or a boss attack that would have barely hit you when you quick boost with bipeds.

Don't feel bad for not noticing because again, missleading stat names and not as in your face obvious as vertical jump and boost benefits.

[REBirthTheEdge]

Originally posted by SpaceGoat:

That's the thing though, my recent experience is telling me that regular bipeds are actually superior for dodging than reverse joints. It's possible I am crazy, so I am asking y'all if you see that too. And if I am right, why would this be?

In the tutorial, it is even said that RJ is superior to biped in maneuvering.

[overmage]

Originally posted by This PC:

Originally posted by overmage:

the AI is a cheating bastard

.. ?
I've been cooking off the salt around this game since it came out hahaha

The game is easy and I have no problem with its content, but the AI cheats regularly. Once you realise this the game becomes easy (e.g. some bosses are coded to automatically dodge to ranges most unfavourable for your current weapon type). No salt here, I have never had a problem with the content. I S-ranked every mission in chapter 1 except the Baltheus one with loader 4.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by overmage:

Originally posted by This PC:

.. ?
I've been cooking off the salt around this game since it came out hahaha

The game is easy and I have no problem with its content, but the AI cheats regularly. Once you realise this the game becomes easy (e.g. some bosses are coded to automatically dodge to ranges most unfavourable for your current weapon type). No salt here, I have never had a problem with the content.

Ah. You too have discovered the true power of the weaker than revolvers needle pistols then.

Iblis: Haha idiot, I teleported to exactly revolver bounce range again-AW ♥♥♥♥

[Blackmage]

Originally posted by SpaceGoat:

At first I exclusively ran reverse joint builds, but lately I have been experimenting with the regular bipeds. Of course bipeds have better defensive stats than reverse joints, that much is obvious.

But there is one thing I can't explain. Lightweight bipeds seem to be better at dodging enemy attacks than lightweight reverse joints.

I thought reverse joints would be the king of dodging until I tried reverse joints. After all, that bunnyhopping ability should be great for avoiding incoming fire, right? What possible advantage could regular bipeds have when it comes to movement?

Am I crazy or am I on to something? And if I am right, can anyone explain why?

I did my entire first play-through using regular biped legs.

Bipeds have the advantage of being generalist legs. They are not weak in any particular category, but not incredibly strong either.

Yes, inverted legs have a good jump, but they have lower stability and lower load capacities. You are more likely to get staggered.
I cannot remember if this is true, but they might also have a higher EN demand.

Quadruped legs are heavy, so you need more powerful boosters, and also usually have a higher EN demand - especially in past games.

EN demand matters because parts that have a higher EN cost need a generator with a greater output. A generator with a greater output might have a longer replenishment delay. The consumption of EN output also slows down the recharging time - not the delay, but the ability for the energy bar to replenish.

Your boosters also come into play to determine your AC's ability to dodge. If their recommended Q.Boost weight value is lower than your actual AC's total weight, they will struggle to move your AC.

[Bigunz]

Generally I have found that bipedal excel at dodging while grounded compared to RJ legs if you slot in a gen that focuses on EN regen speed. Due to always being on the ground your En will pretty much start regenerating at the end of your dodge allowing for more consistent dodging potential/speed. Add on the fact that a great deal of attacks can be avoided if you just use distance and movement speed this can result in more consistent avoidance of attacks. I have found the most success with this with a Mid range Med AC build.

Comparatively to RJ legs which will always leave the ground after a dodge or jump which are better suited for bursts of speed and a booster/gen that support that kind of movement. The free boost when your EN is depleted actually can be a burden as it leaves you in the air with no means of immediate adjustment leaving you open to attack. This can compond with RJ legs naturally lower carry limit and all that that effects can lead you very vulnerable to high spikes of dmg which if you pilot a RJ AC you have to be aware of. I suggest using weapons that have some aoe component with RJ legs as you can easily and quickly gain a bit of height which benefit from these weaps.

[Punished Kaiser Wilhelm II]

if we're completely ignoring defensive and load limit stats, bipeds have the advantage of keeping you on the ground, which is an admittedly pretty niche advantage for niche situations. frankly, I just prefer the jump dodges of reverse joints and like them more aesthetically.

[𝐿𝑒𝓃𝑜𝓇𝑒]

Bipeds have more AP, defense, equip load, and stability (generally speaking) when compared to a reverse joint of the same "type" (light/medium/heavy) since reverse joints are making concessions in order to get the extra mobility.

[Delryn]

I find bipedal nicer for melee combat. With reverse joint I will often jump past enemies, and can't melee them.

[BKo]

RJs have a different QB which you don't necessarily always want and they have slightly worse stats than bipeds of similar weight.

[Goose]

If I want to jump on a tiny ledge and dont want to bonk my head on the ceiling bipeds work better than reverse. Also reverse boost can be a bit excessive at times. Also for the looks