The reason why Armored Core 6 is an casual game (no clickbait)

[Chocos Ramabotti]

The game rewards you for dying. It refills your ammo and repair kits on the spots, granting you ressources you shouldn't have at that time you reached the checkpoint, making ammunition management basically non-existant.

It obvious that the game originally didn't had any automatic checkpoints and only the supply spots before the bosses, but they added them later in development cycle to appeal to casual gamers, you know these people who praise these automatic checkpoints.

i'm **NOT** talking about not giving you checkpoints at bosses, as there resupply points are stationed. These are perfectly fine, if you reached Baltheus, there of course is rightfully a checkpoint in front of him that restores your ressources.

I believe resupply stations were the only checkpoints earlier in development and they added these automatic checkpoints later to cater to an broader demographic, but the behaviour that it refills all your ressources makes the odds unfair in favour to the player, so that's why AC6 is an casual game as they catered with this decision to casual gamers and all of you use that casual option to get ammunition and repair kits out of nothing.

[REBirthTheEdge]

If every mission is structured like Attack the Spaceport and Into the Depth 2, I wouldn't mind the checkpoint.

Basically opening -> ambush -> mini-boss fight -> exploration -> main boss fight.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Publicado originalmente por Starfield Enjoyer:

but anyway back to topic no need to rant about something that is already implemented nothing will change ( im talking about armored core )

tbh making the game casual friendly will attract more consumer / audience into the game which means successful sales leads to sequel or continuation of franchise

do you want to wait again for another next 10 yrs ? or even worse they might not create another mech game. they can milk elden ring tbh which is more popular.

elden ring got toned down too fyi if you compare it to their previous souls
the checkpoint / bonfire is placed right next to boss most of them. but for me its QOL and removes frustration running towards the boss every time you die.

same goes for armored core its a QOL for adding checkpoints.

hardcore gamers are given a choice whether you want to use the check point or restart the whole level for classic armored core experience

checkpoints repair kits are QOL for newcomers to the series

I mean what point is there when the franchise that becomes continued is downright unenjoyable?
So yeah World of Warcraft has persisted for 20 years, but for what price? It has become downright unplayable as all the casualization infected and destroyed any meaningful incentive to play.
It's a Lose/Lose situation, at this point it would make no difference if there is no new game anymore, as the new games are disappointing and unappealing anyway.

Mark my words if this trend continues we'll talking about far worse things, as the casualization continues steadily, optimizing the fun out of the game.

[Belmont]

Imagine having access to points in the game where you replenish everything and can do all your maintenance, swap equipment, and fall back to on death. Might as well make camp and start a bonfire /sarcasm

If "other players" are complaining about how hard the tutorial boss is, they'd just be filtered out the franchise if they have to redo an entire mission. Also these missions really aren't long as FromSoft marketed. I was expecting like 15 minute missions where I would almost *have* to use these checkpoints 3 or 4 times.

[StoneofTriumph]

Publicado originalmente por Chocos Ramabotti:

I mean what point is there when the franchise that becomes continued is downright unenjoyable?
So yeah World of Warcraft has persisted for 20 years, but for what price? It has become downright unplayable as all the casualization infected and destroyed any meaningful incentive to play.
It's a Lose/Lose situation, at this point it would make no difference if there is no new game anymore, as the new games are disappointing and unappealing anyway.

Mark my words if this trend continues we'll talking about far worse things, as the casualization continues steadily, optimizing the fun out of the game.

Well, plenty of people are enjoying the game, you just seem to think they're the wrong kinds of people.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Publicado originalmente por StoneofTriumph:

Publicado originalmente por Chocos Ramabotti:

I mean what point is there when the franchise that becomes continued is downright unenjoyable?
So yeah World of Warcraft has persisted for 20 years, but for what price? It has become downright unplayable as all the casualization infected and destroyed any meaningful incentive to play.
It's a Lose/Lose situation, at this point it would make no difference if there is no new game anymore, as the new games are disappointing and unappealing anyway.

Mark my words if this trend continues we'll talking about far worse things, as the casualization continues steadily, optimizing the fun out of the game.

Well, plenty of people are enjoying the game, you just seem to think they're the wrong kinds of people.

The game is enjoyable despite its shortcomings, but over time they will become bigger. Elden Ring also had the potential for something greater for a certain subset of players who enjoyed FromSofts first souls games, but having to abide to casual needs smooth a lot of edges that would be otherwise very interesting.

Burning Crusade was also a very good expansion, Wrath of the Lich King too, despite their shortcomings, but this was where the cracks have shown up and by catering to more casual people, these cracks only grew larger each expansion. It's a downward spiral.

[Iratebirb]

who cares

[The Zone is Real]

Publicado originalmente por StoneofTriumph:

Publicado originalmente por Chocos Ramabotti:

I mean what point is there when the franchise that becomes continued is downright unenjoyable?
So yeah World of Warcraft has persisted for 20 years, but for what price? It has become downright unplayable as all the casualization infected and destroyed any meaningful incentive to play.
It's a Lose/Lose situation, at this point it would make no difference if there is no new game anymore, as the new games are disappointing and unappealing anyway.

Mark my words if this trend continues we'll talking about far worse things, as the casualization continues steadily, optimizing the fun out of the game.

Well, plenty of people are enjoying the game, you just seem to think they're the wrong kinds of people.

Cause they are. Its like saying we should ad some barbies in the game so that barbie fanbase can enjoy the game. ♥♥♥♥ no stay away from our games

[one whole boi]

Misery and inconvenience inflicted on the player shouldn't be used as a merit for whether or not a game is casual.

I don't understand how making players play an entire level over and over again to get another attempt on a boss makes the game more difficult in a good way. Guaranteed you don't kill everything you see on your way to a boss in Dark Souls to get another attempt. You sprint through everything. Nobody enjoys that.

There's a mission that makes you fight a boss and blow almost all of your ammo and possibly repairs then throws you at another boss with no resupply. The single most unfun thing I've encountered in this game is running out of ammo and having no way to acquire more. Running dry on even one weapon puts you at such a disadvantage you may as well be considered dead.

That means you'd have to try and make a build that can more or less excel at every situation that mission throws at you while conserving enough ammo to make it through the entire thing. On some missions that seems legit impossible unless you melee a LOT. Talk about being shoehorned. Idc if you think it makes me a casual. That's a headache I'm glad I can miss.

All in a game that encourages you to change your loadout to fit the situation you're faced with yet gives you no way to do it to unless you die and gives you almost no information about the mission beforehand. It would be cool and would make sense if resupplies gave you the option to change your loadout but, again, some missions don't even provide them.

The only way I've managed to beat many of the bosses/minibosses in this game is changing to more suitable weapons and I had to do that after I fought the boss multiple times with my main loadout and realized it just wasn't going to work.

"Oh the miniboss has a pulse shield up almost 100% of the time regardless of how much firepower I throw at it? My gatling gun and dual 10 pack missiles are completely worthless and I can't stagger it so I likely won't land a hit with my pile bunker. Well, I'm hardcore so I'll just keep hammering away and beat it with my massive throbbing skill."

[Prankman]

If I had to re-do the laser gauntlet every single time I died to the Sea Spider I think I would actually just uninstall the game.

The thing is, both missions and bosses were shorter in older AC games, and bosses were way less punishing. Only a handful of bosses would be particularly bad and they'd usually be their own mission or have a short section of easily skippable enemies before it. Checkpoints and supply drops make a lot of sense for the way AC6 is structured.

Most missions in AC6 where you'd feasibly use checkpoints have supply drops near them anyway. The only major exception I can think of is the Honest Brute AC fight, and you still can't S-Rank him while using checkpoints.

[buttchin]

yep game is casual and easy and i love it, you should play getting over it perfect game for u hardcore gaymer

[StoneofTriumph]

Publicado originalmente por Prankman:

If I had to re-do the laser gauntlet every single time I died to the Sea Spider I think I would actually just uninstall the game.

The thing is, both missions and bosses were shorter in older AC games, and bosses were way less punishing. Only a handful of bosses would be particularly bad and they'd usually be their own mission or have a short section of easily skippable enemies before it. Checkpoints and supply drops make a lot of sense for the way AC6 is structured.

Most missions in AC6 where you'd feasibly use checkpoints have supply drops near them anyway. The only major exception I can think of is the Honest Brute AC fight, and you still can't S-Rank him while using checkpoints.

Yes! A lot of the missions in Gen 1 Armored Core were shorter than a non-optimized boss fight in Armored Core 6. There were plenty of missions you could clear in a minute or two even if you weren't doing anything special.

[Schrodinger's Left Nut]

Publicado originalmente por MarcoPants:

Publicado originalmente por Friendly Lizard KING:

They will never be as popular as COD or Elden Ring thats my point. So why even try it then in the first place ? Seems really unlogical to me

A better question is why NOT try? Checkpoints don't ruin the game, simple as. Sure, a health/ammo refill on checkpoint restart as well as being able to change up your AC can make getting through a level overall easier if you're struggling, but the true test of one's skill, S-ranking a mission, does not afford one such a luxury

There it is... I would be curious to see how many S ranks OP has. I'd wager not very many, if any at all

[The Zone is Real]

Publicado originalmente por Prankman:

If I had to re-do the laser gauntlet every single time I died to the Sea Spider I think I would actually just uninstall the game.

The thing is, both missions and bosses were shorter in older AC games, and bosses were way less punishing. Only a handful of bosses would be particularly bad and they'd usually be their own mission or have a short section of easily skippable enemies before it. Checkpoints and supply drops make a lot of sense for the way AC6 is structured.

Most missions in AC6 where you'd feasibly use checkpoints have supply drops near them anyway. The only major exception I can think of is the Honest Brute AC fight, and you still can't S-Rank him while using checkpoints.

Well yes thats true, the laser gaunlet mission is pain in the ass. My point is they made it too much. Every boss has an checkpoint befor. Why dont make 50/50 some bosses have checkpoints like the sea spider and other like the wall dont. This would truely help the game for a bigger audience.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Publicado originalmente por Googous (Alpha Male):

Misery and inconvenience inflicted on the player shouldn't be used as a merit for whether or not a game is casual.

I don't understand how making players play an entire level over and over again to get another attempt on a boss makes the game more difficult in a good way. Guaranteed you don't kill everything you see on your way to a boss in Dark Souls to get another attempt. You sprint through everything. Nobody enjoys that.

There's a mission that makes you fight a boss and blow almost all of your ammo and possibly repairs then throws you at another boss with no resupply. The single most unfun thing I've encountered in this game is running out of ammo and having no way to acquire more. Running dry on even one weapon puts you at such a disadvantage you may as well be considered dead.

That means you'd have to try and make a build that can more or less excel at every situation that mission throws at you while conserving enough ammo to make it through the entire thing. On some missions that seems legit impossible unless you melee a LOT. Talk about being shoehorned. Idc if you think it makes me a casual. That's a headache I'm glad I can miss.

All in a game that encourages you to change your loadout to fit the situation you're faced with yet gives you no way to do it to unless you die and gives you almost no information about the mission beforehand. It would be cool and would make sense if resupplies gave you the option to change your loadout but, again, some missions don't even provide them.

The only way I've managed to beat many of the bosses/minibosses in this game is changing to more suitable weapons and I had to do that after I fought the boss multiple times with my main loadout and realized it just wasn't going to work.

"Oh the miniboss has a pulse shield up almost 100% of the time regardless of how much firepower I throw at it? My gatling gun and dual 10 pack missiles are completely worthless and I can't stagger it so I likely won't land a hit with my pile bunker. Well, I'm hardcore so I'll just keep hammering away and beat it with my massive throbbing skill."

As I already mentioned i'm not talking about not giving you checkpoints at bosses, as there resupply points are stationed.

So what i'm saying, I believe resupply stations were the only checkpoints earlier in development and they added these automatic checkpoints later to cater to an broader demographic, but the behaviour that it refills all your ressources makes the odds unfair in favour to the player, that's why it feels bad using them. But after you reached a boss and a resupply point, it's different.

I play like that:

- if I die i restart the mission
- if I reached the resupply station (which is always in front of an boss) I no longer restart the mission if I die but choose the checkpoint.



reason: I don't gain ressources I shouldn't have at this point. So no, i'm not talking about restarting the mission after dying to an boss. because you have maximum ressources anyway.

I'm talking about restarting before you reached the boss on the plenty checkpoints before them, as they reward you for dying with ressources you shouldn't have at this point. These are the odds I mean that are unfairly in players favour.

Rejecting the automatic checkpoints because of that trait will restore the balance of the game inside its level missions, but 99,999999% of all player don't know it better and just deal with what the game gives them, althought it's simply harms the games balance (ressource management)

So again:
if you die at the sea-spider, yes you can restart at the sea spider, since you've reached an resupply station there, that ensures that your ammunition and repair kits are fully maxed out rightfully, not because the automatic checkpoint handed it out to you for free.

[The Rizzler]

so this is the way i see it the checkpoints do make things easier
yes the old games "DID" have "checkpoints" it not like it was a thing

being able to refit and get all your ammo back on death is a little cheep