People complaining about it not being like the original AC games?

[BiggestMoisture]

I would like to start by saying that I personally have not completed any of the other AC games, but I was watching Vaati Vidya's video completing all the other 15 AC games and I don't really get peoples complaints? Vaati was pretty thorough showing all the details about each game and even from the first AC game from 1997, you had quite a bit of customization and each game had quite the challenge to it and had a very similar style of gameplay it seemed. Just trying to understand why so many AC fans are complaining that this more "souls" than AC? Because again, the previous seemed pretty damn hard to complete too.

[Blackmage]

AC6 isn't souls-like, but its boss fights are. They are over the top, have infinite energy, infinite ammo, etc. It's still a DPS race just like the old games, all that's been added are attack patterns. You can ignore the attack patterns entirely with cheese builds, but that isn't fun. But it's not as un-fun than getting brick-walled by the boss. Since the attack patterns can be made into a non-issue, why have them at all?

The old games were mech mercenary sim-lite. Money and failure actually mattered in the old games. The game moved on even if you lost money. Your persistence was rewarded with H+ augmentations you went deep enough in debt. The important thing is you never felt like you were stuck unless you went out of your way to reload a save.
In AC6 you have to complete the mission. This can sometimes make you feel like you're stuck because you are stuck on a certain boss. Your own personal groundhogs day. Nobody likes to be stuck.

Replaying missions were a privilege you unlocked post-game. In AC6, you can grind them for money. But mission rewards are so luxurious you shouldn't have to. You can ignore the costs for repairs and ammo supplies.
In the old games you were encouraged to make smart play over run'n'gun tactics, not that it wasn't viable.
Along those lines, the checkpoints with free refills have enabled FromSoftware to design the bosses what they are. If the checkpoints and supply drops weren't there, they'd have to tune down the bosses to account for diminished AP and ammo. This would further encourage smart play, and challenge the player in more ways than just fast bosses that hit like a truck.

Stagger would have been nice if it was an optional method to work towards - like if explosive weapons had low base damage and high impact. But building stagger paid off just as much as going for energy weapons which deal high base damage, low stagger could pay off, while ballistic weapons fell somewhere in between.
However, stagger is the meat of AC6's boss and Arena fights. It's the only way to deal meaningful damage to the bosses. So a meta has formed that encourages high sustain impact and damage weapons, like gatling guns, or high burst weapons, like shotguns. That is very much not at all like how Armored Core is supposed to be.

That's why AC6 is a decent-ish action-shooter game with balancing issues, and a bad Armored Core game.

[Lukecis]

Health kits and stagger bar are the main complaints and the early games didn't really have difficult set-piece bosses which this game is focused around.

[JusticeSoulTuna]

Originally posted by Blackmage:

AC6 isn't souls-like, but its boss fights are. They are over the top, have infinite energy, infinite ammo, etc. It's still a DPS race just like the old games, all that's been added are attack patterns. You can ignore the attack patterns entirely with cheese builds, but that isn't fun. But it's not as un-fun than getting brick-walled by the boss. Since the attack patterns can be made into a non-issue, why have them at all?

The old games were mech mercenary sim-lite. Money and failure actually mattered in the old games. The game moved on even if you lost money. Your persistence was rewarded with H+ augmentations you went deep enough in debt. The important thing is you never felt like you were stuck unless you went out of your way to reload a save.
In AC6 you have to complete the mission. This can sometimes make you feel like you're stuck because you are stuck on a certain boss. Your own personal groundhogs day. Nobody likes to be stuck.

Replaying missions were a privilege you unlocked post-game. In AC6, you can grind them for money. But mission rewards are so luxurious you shouldn't have to. You can ignore the costs for repairs and ammo supplies.
In the old games you were encouraged to make smart play over run'n'gun tactics, not that it wasn't viable.
Along those lines, the checkpoints with free refills have enabled FromSoftware to design the bosses what they are. If the checkpoints and supply drops weren't there, they'd have to tune down the bosses to account for diminished AP and ammo. This would further encourage smart play, and challenge the player in more ways than just fast bosses that hit like a truck.

Stagger would have been nice if it was an optional method to work towards - like if explosive weapons had low base damage and high impact. But building stagger paid off just as much as going for energy weapons which deal high base damage, low stagger could pay off, while ballistic weapons fell somewhere in between.
However, stagger is the meat of AC6's boss and Arena fights. It's the only way to deal meaningful damage to the bosses. So a meta has formed that encourages high sustain impact and damage weapons, like gatling guns, or high burst weapons, like shotguns. That is very much not at all like how Armored Core is supposed to be.

That's why AC6 is a decent-ish action-shooter game with balancing issues, and a bad Armored Core game.

Exactly this. Design philosophy. People don’t understand that difficulty alone isn’t the issue, it’s the STYLE and design philosophy of combat encounters that are fundamentally different from previous games. Because I’m personally a fan of challenging games (like Ninja Gaiden for example) but the Souls games have always rubbed me the wrong way. I was a fan of previous AC titles, but the Sekiro DNA is all over AC6, as you’ve accurately explained here.

I was definitely looking for a challenging AC game, and the encounters with enemy ACs and other mechs can be a good challenge to overcome. But these big boss enemy designs have a similar ‘Souls-like’ design philosophy which I don’t appreciate, and defeating them doesn’t bring me any joy or satisfaction, I just feel annoyed. Also, the Stagger system and other aspects of the game really bummed me out too.

Put simply, ‘difficulty’ is not created equally among all games. One of my favourite indie games of recent memory is a game called Cyber Shadow: it’s an old-school style action platformer with NO Souls-like or Rouge-like elements, just a series of challenging levels and bosses, and I loved that game. These days, so many games’ idea of difficulty is just following a Souls-like/Rogue-like formula, and that just isn’t for everyone.

[Call Sign: Raven]

Originally posted by Blackmage:

AC6 isn't souls-like, but its boss fights are. They are over the top, have infinite energy, infinite ammo, etc. It's still a DPS race just like the old games, all that's been added are attack patterns. You can ignore the attack patterns entirely with cheese builds, but that isn't fun. But it's not as un-fun than getting brick-walled by the boss. Since the attack patterns can be made into a non-issue, why have them at all?

The old games were mech mercenary sim-lite. Money and failure actually mattered in the old games. The game moved on even if you lost money. Your persistence was rewarded with H+ augmentations you went deep enough in debt. The important thing is you never felt like you were stuck unless you went out of your way to reload a save.
In AC6 you have to complete the mission. This can sometimes make you feel like you're stuck because you are stuck on a certain boss. Your own personal groundhogs day. Nobody likes to be stuck.

Replaying missions were a privilege you unlocked post-game. In AC6, you can grind them for money. But mission rewards are so luxurious you shouldn't have to. You can ignore the costs for repairs and ammo supplies.
In the old games you were encouraged to make smart play over run'n'gun tactics, not that it wasn't viable.
Along those lines, the checkpoints with free refills have enabled FromSoftware to design the bosses what they are. If the checkpoints and supply drops weren't there, they'd have to tune down the bosses to account for diminished AP and ammo. This would further encourage smart play, and challenge the player in more ways than just fast bosses that hit like a truck.

Stagger would have been nice if it was an optional method to work towards - like if explosive weapons had low base damage and high impact. But building stagger paid off just as much as going for energy weapons which deal high base damage, low stagger could pay off, while ballistic weapons fell somewhere in between.
However, stagger is the meat of AC6's boss and Arena fights. It's the only way to deal meaningful damage to the bosses. So a meta has formed that encourages high sustain impact and damage weapons, like gatling guns, or high burst weapons, like shotguns. That is very much not at all like how Armored Core is supposed to be.

That's why AC6 is a decent-ish action-shooter game with balancing issues, and a bad Armored Core game.

This is more parroted nonsense.

[Midas]

It plays more like the original armored cores than 4th and 5th gen armored core did. The main thing it lacks in comparison is the importance of making money. Being able to replay missions is something I don't think they should have allowed in your first playthrough. It would have made people more serious about not throwing away credits on expensive builds and would have given more emphasis to try avoiding damage and being efficient.

[Roland]

Originally posted by Call Sign: Raven:

Originally posted by Blackmage:

AC6 isn't souls-like, but its boss fights are. They are over the top, have infinite energy, infinite ammo, etc. It's still a DPS race just like the old games, all that's been added are attack patterns. You can ignore the attack patterns entirely with cheese builds, but that isn't fun. But it's not as un-fun than getting brick-walled by the boss. Since the attack patterns can be made into a non-issue, why have them at all?

The old games were mech mercenary sim-lite. Money and failure actually mattered in the old games. The game moved on even if you lost money. Your persistence was rewarded with H+ augmentations you went deep enough in debt. The important thing is you never felt like you were stuck unless you went out of your way to reload a save.
In AC6 you have to complete the mission. This can sometimes make you feel like you're stuck because you are stuck on a certain boss. Your own personal groundhogs day. Nobody likes to be stuck.

Replaying missions were a privilege you unlocked post-game. In AC6, you can grind them for money. But mission rewards are so luxurious you shouldn't have to. You can ignore the costs for repairs and ammo supplies.
In the old games you were encouraged to make smart play over run'n'gun tactics, not that it wasn't viable.
Along those lines, the checkpoints with free refills have enabled FromSoftware to design the bosses what they are. If the checkpoints and supply drops weren't there, they'd have to tune down the bosses to account for diminished AP and ammo. This would further encourage smart play, and challenge the player in more ways than just fast bosses that hit like a truck.

Stagger would have been nice if it was an optional method to work towards - like if explosive weapons had low base damage and high impact. But building stagger paid off just as much as going for energy weapons which deal high base damage, low stagger could pay off, while ballistic weapons fell somewhere in between.
However, stagger is the meat of AC6's boss and Arena fights. It's the only way to deal meaningful damage to the bosses. So a meta has formed that encourages high sustain impact and damage weapons, like gatling guns, or high burst weapons, like shotguns. That is very much not at all like how Armored Core is supposed to be.

That's why AC6 is a decent-ish action-shooter game with balancing issues, and a bad Armored Core game.

This is more parroted nonsense.

As someone who played Last Raven way too much with the most recent time being last year, and having beat this game 4 times now, I agree this is nonsense.
The bosses don't feel any less "like AC" than the rest of the game, and the rest of the game is VERY "AC".

Originally posted by Midas:

It plays more like the original armored cores than 4th and 5th gen armored core did. The main thing it lacks in comparison is the importance of making money. Being able to replay missions is something I don't think they should have allowed in your first playthrough. It would have made people more serious about not throwing away credits on expensive builds and would have given more emphasis to try avoiding damage and being efficient.

The arenas were replayable anyway though, and that was a long time thing if you recall. (I know I do I used to spam the little 18k reward Arena to farm parts lol) So money was only ever an issue before you unlocked Arena (in some of the games anyway)

Selling parts for 100% value was an interesting choice though... That was probably the biggest step towards making money meaningless; though I do agree Replay should have been post first ending.

[Pharen]

To be fully transparent the vast majority of my hours in Armored core come from 4 and for answer. But I fully agree with the statements earlier. The games boss design is clearly influenced by the souls games: Battles are slower, they take place in closer quarters, stagger doesn't make sense and is clearly included to balance out the battle changes, and repair kits are another crutch to help balance out the gameplay changes, which also is a mechanic well known from the souls games.

If you want a good comparison, fight any boss in AC6, then immediately after do an arms fort boss battle in For Answer, you'll see the differences immediately. Aside from the stagger mechanic, and significantly reduced speed, the AC fights are still very similar in both games however.

[Somali Pirate Radio]

Originally posted by Roland:

Selling parts for 100% value was an interesting choice though... That was probably the biggest step towards making money meaningless

Isn't that how it is in most AC games?


I do understand why they cap your losses in a mission to eliminate debt. I don't like it, but honestly... if they wanted to have any hope of anything resembling mainstream acceptance, they had to ease people in.
Folks hate being "punished" for "winning", so no matter what, you can't be left worse off than you started after successfully clearing a mission. As tradeoffs go... I'm glad they capped the deductions at "zero dollars earned" rather than removing repair and resupply costs completely.

[Belkinhert]

People really say they're fans and played all the AC but then forget all of what you see in AC6 was in previous AC games. It is an armored core game, not souls like or influenced by it. The bosses even have mechanics from other bosses but combined.

[魔装機神 Psybuster]

Originally posted by Blackmage:

But mission rewards are so luxurious you shouldn't have to.

This part I have to disagree on simply because even with replaying missions I don't have enough money to buy all the parts, and the biggest joy in this series is tinkering about with different parts to put something together that works.

Originally posted by Blackmage:

However, stagger is the meat of AC6's boss and Arena fights.

Very much this. I almost like bosses with pulse shields more than ones without for that reason.

[REBirthTheEdge]

I love, love the stagger system, it encourages aggressiveness.
Maybe there should be a balance there and there on impact, but the system works and it's realistic (you overwhelm the enemy and the enemy can overwhelm you).

I do agree with a hard mode + debt mode to properly simulate the AC experience of running out of money. With the new autosave system it's gonna be close to a survival game too.

[BiggestMoisture]

Originally posted by Blackmage:

AC6 isn't souls-like, but its boss fights are. They are over the top, have infinite energy, infinite ammo, etc. It's still a DPS race just like the old games, all that's been added are attack patterns. You can ignore the attack patterns entirely with cheese builds, but that isn't fun. But it's not as un-fun than getting brick-walled by the boss. Since the attack patterns can be made into a non-issue, why have them at all?

The old games were mech mercenary sim-lite. Money and failure actually mattered in the old games. The game moved on even if you lost money. Your persistence was rewarded with H+ augmentations you went deep enough in debt. The important thing is you never felt like you were stuck unless you went out of your way to reload a save.
In AC6 you have to complete the mission. This can sometimes make you feel like you're stuck because you are stuck on a certain boss. Your own personal groundhogs day. Nobody likes to be stuck.

Replaying missions were a privilege you unlocked post-game. In AC6, you can grind them for money. But mission rewards are so luxurious you shouldn't have to. You can ignore the costs for repairs and ammo supplies.
In the old games you were encouraged to make smart play over run'n'gun tactics, not that it wasn't viable.
Along those lines, the checkpoints with free refills have enabled FromSoftware to design the bosses what they are. If the checkpoints and supply drops weren't there, they'd have to tune down the bosses to account for diminished AP and ammo. This would further encourage smart play, and challenge the player in more ways than just fast bosses that hit like a truck.

Stagger would have been nice if it was an optional method to work towards - like if explosive weapons had low base damage and high impact. But building stagger paid off just as much as going for energy weapons which deal high base damage, low stagger could pay off, while ballistic weapons fell somewhere in between.
However, stagger is the meat of AC6's boss and Arena fights. It's the only way to deal meaningful damage to the bosses. So a meta has formed that encourages high sustain impact and damage weapons, like gatling guns, or high burst weapons, like shotguns. That is very much not at all like how Armored Core is supposed to be.

That's why AC6 is a decent-ish action-shooter game with balancing issues, and a bad Armored Core game.

I think I understand more now, plus what the person below said mentioning health kits which I didn't even think about.

[BiggestMoisture]

Originally posted by Midas:

It plays more like the original armored cores than 4th and 5th gen armored core did. The main thing it lacks in comparison is the importance of making money. Being able to replay missions is something I don't think they should have allowed in your first playthrough. It would have made people more serious about not throwing away credits on expensive builds and would have given more emphasis to try avoiding damage and being efficient.

I can definitely get behind this and was something I didn't even consider.

[BiggestMoisture]

Originally posted by Roland:

Originally posted by Call Sign: Raven:

This is more parroted nonsense.

As someone who played Last Raven way too much with the most recent time being last year, and having beat this game 4 times now, I agree this is nonsense.
The bosses don't feel any less "like AC" than the rest of the game, and the rest of the game is VERY "AC".

Originally posted by Midas:

It plays more like the original armored cores than 4th and 5th gen armored core did. The main thing it lacks in comparison is the importance of making money. Being able to replay missions is something I don't think they should have allowed in your first playthrough. It would have made people more serious about not throwing away credits on expensive builds and would have given more emphasis to try avoiding damage and being efficient.

The arenas were replayable anyway though, and that was a long time thing if you recall. (I know I do I used to spam the little 18k reward Arena to farm parts lol) So money was only ever an issue before you unlocked Arena (in some of the games anyway)

Selling parts for 100% value was an interesting choice though... That was probably the biggest step towards making money meaningless; though I do agree Replay should have been post first ending.

From what I remember seeing, selling parts for 100% value was the same in the original games too, right?

[BiggestMoisture]

Originally posted by Belkinhert:

People really say they're fans and played all the AC but then forget all of what you see in AC6 was in previous AC games. It is an armored core game, not souls like or influenced by it. The bosses even have mechanics from other bosses but combined.

That's kinda how I felt after watching that video. Plus it seems like there's been more and more people that just hate on a certain title for whatever their reason and to try to make their little argument more impactful they just claim that they were fans of the original games or whatever so sometimes idk what to believe.