What happened to Handler Walter? (Spoilers)

[Atomsk]

I just beat the game, sadly betraying Ayre ... but I don't recall how Walter died? Did VII Snail somehow kill him after you defeat IBIS?

Also, are the prior Armoured Cores different stories or are they all related?

[darknight766]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by darknight766:

The way the story is told to us, we are given both sides. Neither can provide evidence other than their word. The fire ending you have a very immediate consequence, the liberator ending may have a more positive outcome or negative. Only time will tell. Meanwhile the 3rd ending has the most possibilities, including the evolution of humanity, and it might have unforeseen consequences. No one can possibly know what will happen.

Which is why it is open for interpretation. Deliberately so.

You're right, and it was a good way to tell a story. otherwise we wouldn't be on here talking about it.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by darknight766:

Originally posted by Silamon:

Maybe at first he didn't care about 621, but by the end he definitely did. He went from not giving a ♥♥♥♥, to telling people to give you some respect, to trusting you wholely, to entrusting you with his life's work when he's gone. I absolutely believe he wouldn't have attacked without the brainwashing

Maybe he wouldn't have, but we know that Carla did without thinking twice and didn't even try to talk to you.

She tells you to get your laughs while you can, before defending her life's work. I mean you were trying to take her out, you betrayed her, not the other way around.

She wasn't quite as involved with you as Walter was either. As she put it, Walter gave her the last piece to play.

[darknight766]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by darknight766:

Maybe he wouldn't have, but we know that Carla did without thinking twice and didn't even try to talk to you.

She tells you to get your laughs while you can, before defending her life's work. I mean you were trying to take her out, you betrayed her, not the other way around.

Ok, you got me there. But that's also why I would lean towards the possibility of Walter attacking you if he had the choice just because you are fighting against what he has likely spent his whole life fighting for.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by darknight766:

Originally posted by Silamon:

She tells you to get your laughs while you can, before defending her life's work. I mean you were trying to take her out, you betrayed her, not the other way around.

Ok, you got me there. But that's also why I would lean towards the possibility of Walter attacking you if he had the choice just because you are fighting against what he has likely spent his whole life fighting for.

In my opinion, if given the chance to talk it out, Walter could have been persuaded. Carla not so much. Even Ayre was sad to see Walter suffer so much.

[darknight766]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by darknight766:

Ok, you got me there. But that's also why I would lean towards the possibility of Walter attacking you if he had the choice just because you are fighting against what he has likely spent his whole life fighting for.

In my opinion, if given the chance to talk it out, Walter could have been persuaded. Carla not so much. Even Ayre was sad to see Walter suffer so much.

I share your opinion, 621 could probably convince Walter and maybe Walter could have then convinced Carla.

[Korinth]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by darknight766:

Ok, you got me there. But that's also why I would lean towards the possibility of Walter attacking you if he had the choice just because you are fighting against what he has likely spent his whole life fighting for.

In my opinion, if given the chance to talk it out, Walter could have been persuaded. Carla not so much. Even Ayre was sad to see Walter suffer so much.

Well the mission was to ASSASSINATE CARLA so I kinda understand why she didn't agree with that.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Hahli:

Originally posted by Silamon:

In my opinion, if given the chance to talk it out, Walter could have been persuaded. Carla not so much. Even Ayre was sad to see Walter suffer so much.

Well the mission was to ASSASSINATE CARLA so I kinda understand why she didn't agree with that.

I don't think Carla would have been likely to change her mind. She definitely seemed dead set on blowing something up with Xylem.

[Sigs]

A lot of Walter is playthrough-based. You see how casually he responds to the potential of murdering you in the coral release ending.

At a baseline, I think both his standoffishness at the start and how 'loyal' he seems to get to 621 are more of a guilt response than actual empathy and friendliness. He (or the coral personality in his head) is responsible for the surgery that cyborged you into your AC core (and basically made into a permanent corporate slave that can't live a normal life) to begin with.

He cares more about his mission than using expendable slaves from a dead project, and only has ties to you because he ran out of money and you lived too long. It's up to interpretation, and you could feel a lot of ways about this, but you shouldn't disregard the fact that he (or his 'friend') is one of the core reasons AC's exist with cyborg pilot-slaves in the first place imo.

I'm not entirely convinced Walter or Carla are human anymore. Coral Release indicates that Arquebus's Vespers (IIRC?) are just AI replicants made by ALLMIND. I'm pretty sure Carla and Walter are coral ghosts like Ayre. I thought Walter's mind-break was just how a coral ghost responds to 'version 5.8's ""re-education"" program.

[Kimika's Magical Space Cow]

When, in what mission was it revealed that Walter was brainwashed and/or sent to attack us by the Vesper company ? I totally missed that.

[BellFall]

Originally posted by Laifulessone:

When, in what mission was it revealed that Walter was brainwashed and/or sent to attack us by the Vesper company ? I totally missed that.

Final mission of the Liberator of Rubicon ending

[Ribbღns]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by darknight766:

Does he really care though? He does seem to grow as a character through the campaign, but to him you are just a tool he uses to complete his mission. 621 is also not the first, who knows how many he sacrificed before waking you. I didn't feel bad about betraying Walter or Carla, the whole mission is based on fear of something they have no way of knowing will actually happen. The Coral by itself is not dangerous and has too many benefits to just be discarded, it was humans that caused the fires.

The guy was mind controlled to attack you and it was causing him considerable pain and sadness. He points a gun at you but finally overcomes the brain washing when he realizes you found a friend. In the fires of raven ending he is genuinely happy that you finished the mission and wishes you the best with your new life.

IMO the coral absolutely is a threat that needs to be nuked. Ayre isn't gaslighting me, I fully expect liberator to be canon though and a sequel where we have to stop 621 and Ayre for destroying the last remnants of humanity, fighting back a wave of coral....

You know, I disagree with liberator to be the canon ending because the promotional material for this game, quite literally the reveal trailer had Walter's Quote in full display.

Feed the Fire - Let the Last Cinders Burn

And honestly, knowing the nature of AC games never really being direct sequels but moreso just an anthology type series like Final Fantasy, I think the Fires of Raven is the most suiting ending. Mind you I just 100% the game so I'm well aware of the lore that comes from the other endings. All Liberator of Rubicon does is prolong the inevitable. If it's not you, another will come along to ignite the fires, because that is the inherent problem with humanity. Even Ayre touches on this greed of humanity when you first encounter the bonewheel on the bridge. A sentient fuel, quite literally the same plot as Gears of War btw with the Lambency from the Imulsion *fuel*

[Koros Antavo]

Originally posted by Ribbღns:

All Liberator of Rubicon does is prolong the inevitable. If it's not you, another will come along to ignite the fires, because that is the inherent problem with humanity.

Doesn't have to be this way if the Rubiconians become strong enough to defend themselves. It is, unfortunately, not stated what exactly our MCs are intending to do with their new station as Liberators of Rubicon, but there are many possibilities.

Still, if we take into account the previous games, there always have been add-on like sequel-likes after the main numbered entries. It may take a form of a dlc here, or a completely new game, but no matter its form, one thing is certain: it will have to continue this story.

I don't think it is possible to continue the story from the Fires of Raven ending. It is extremely final, there is nothing left, no Coral, no Rubicon, no people. If that ending must be canon, then the sequel's story also must have literally nothing to do with the main game. The potential for plot developments is much higher from the two other endings.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Ribbღns:

Originally posted by Silamon:

The guy was mind controlled to attack you and it was causing him considerable pain and sadness. He points a gun at you but finally overcomes the brain washing when he realizes you found a friend. In the fires of raven ending he is genuinely happy that you finished the mission and wishes you the best with your new life.

IMO the coral absolutely is a threat that needs to be nuked. Ayre isn't gaslighting me, I fully expect liberator to be canon though and a sequel where we have to stop 621 and Ayre for destroying the last remnants of humanity, fighting back a wave of coral....

You know, I disagree with liberator to be the canon ending because the promotional material for this game, quite literally the reveal trailer had Walter's Quote in full display.

Feed the Fire - Let the Last Cinders Burn

And honestly, knowing the nature of AC games never really being direct sequels but moreso just an anthology type series like Final Fantasy, I think the Fires of Raven is the most suiting ending. Mind you I just 100% the game so I'm well aware of the lore that comes from the other endings. All Liberator of Rubicon does is prolong the inevitable. If it's not you, another will come along to ignite the fires, because that is the inherent problem with humanity. Even Ayre touches on this greed of humanity when you first encounter the bonewheel on the bridge. A sentient fuel, quite literally the same plot as Gears of War btw with the Lambency from the Imulsion *fuel*

There have been several AC games in the past that were direct sequels.

[A Suspicious Crayon]

Originally posted by Atomsk:

Originally posted by He Who Is Vile:

You get confirmation of what Snail does to Walter in the Liberator playthrough.

It is actually worse than what you think.

Thanks, I guess I need to get through NG+

You should, there are differences between normal run, ng+and ng++.

[Commander Hitman2b]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by darknight766:

Does he really care though? He does seem to grow as a character through the campaign, but to him you are just a tool he uses to complete his mission. 621 is also not the first, who knows how many he sacrificed before waking you. I didn't feel bad about betraying Walter or Carla, the whole mission is based on fear of something they have no way of knowing will actually happen. The Coral by itself is not dangerous and has too many benefits to just be discarded, it was humans that caused the fires.

The guy was mind controlled to attack you and it was causing him considerable pain and sadness. He points a gun at you but finally overcomes the brain washing when he realizes you found a friend. In the fires of raven ending he is genuinely happy that you finished the mission and wishes you the best with your new life.

IMO the coral absolutely is a threat that needs to be nuked. Ayre isn't gaslighting me, I fully expect liberator to be canon though and a sequel where we have to stop 621 and Ayre for destroying the last remnants of humanity, fighting back a wave of coral....

i believe the all mind ending is canon