What do you guys think of this game loop?

[Sports]

I'm sort of baffled by what the intended gameplay loop seems to be here. When I heard that the game was about experimenting and customizing your cool mech it sounded pretty interesting. But it seems to me that its less about actual player expression and more about solving a combat puzzle that is different every level.

I get that it just might not be for me, and it might just be as simple as me needed to get better in general. But the loop seems to be either:

1) enter level > win in like 2min > no really like any level with no boss in it is just a steamroll and is over the moment you start having actual fun

2) enter level > get destroyed > try again > get destroyed > try again and rush to checkpoint > break immersion and change mech to hard counter boss > hit head against wall until somehow you win before the boss stuns you to death

obviously scenario #2 is heavily based on me just being ♥♥♥♥ but i think it still holds true that the game is less of a customizable action game and more like a sort of combat puzzle with a clearly intended loadout for each fight. The big problem is you dont know what that loadout is until you get to the fight. meaning you have to find a balance mid-attempt between trying again with a mech build you actually like vs throwing in the towel and just equipping the counter build. i keep hearing people mention how the game is all about experimentation, and i guess in a way thats true, but its like an experiment in high school science class where you know what the outcome it going to be every time until you do the obviously correct thing

i 100% know that the game is about swapping out mech parts all the time, its just that I, and lots of other people, really dont want to. I wanna build my dream mech and conquer all the challenges ahead using it, when i heard that the game was about building a mech and experimenting with your build i didnt think it meant solving a new lego puzzle each level

So what does everyone else think? Is this how the old AC games were like? what do you feel about the insane difference between difficulty between levels? Am I just ♥♥♥♥ and actually every build is perfectly viable as long as you're good enough? Would love to know what people think because i dont think this this aspect of the game specifically has been talked about that much

[angelsenvy228]

I don't get these complaints because I have just been building the mech I wanted to so far and not been shoehorned into some meta to beat a boss. The only exceptions being using pulse weapons for pulse shields (obviously) and sometimes using tetrapod if I want/need to be able to hover in a situation or fight more than my spring chicken build will let me. What weapons/setup are you wanting to use you feel the game is locking you out of? Every boss has definitely not been a puzzle beyond figuring out if I want to fly or not or if it has pulse shields (I'm only on Ambush the Vespers so I can't speak for the rest of the bosses yet, every Arena AC I used my normal build I take into any level and I beat the S ranks)

[Castile]

Nguyên văn bởi angelsenvy228:

I don't get these complaints because I have just been building the mech I wanted to so far and not been shoehorned into some meta to beat a boss. The only exceptions being using pulse weapons for pulse shields (obviously) and sometimes using tetrapod if I want/need to be able to hover in a situation or fight more than my spring chicken build will let me. What weapons/setup are you wanting to use you feel the game is locking you out of? Every boss has definitely not been a puzzle beyond figuring out if I want to fly or not or if it has pulse shields (I'm only on Ambush the Vespers so I can't speak for the rest of the bosses yet, every Arena AC I used my normal build I take into any level and I beat the S ranks)

The build railroading only applies to bosses, normal, ac fights are actually pretty good overall aside from the fact they get estus flasks. If you're fighting bosses and not feeling like your build is being railroaded it's because you wanted to play the playstyle the game is already forcing you into.

[Lyzrac]

It's definitely a bit frustrating. I absolutely love the game, as long as I'm not fighting one of the bosses. The input reading on enemy AC's is kinda annoying too, since it makes precision weapons near useless. But the main bosses are honestly just stupid build-style checks. Oh, it's a big attack helicopter, that you have to melee for some really weird reason. Oh, it's a tank with a giant shield on the front, hope you've got something that hits vertically or a plasma weapon that does AoE. Oh, I'm a big ball of missiles and flame swords, hope you can build something to out-dps me and still be fast enough to stay close. It just feels bad, and I hate it because I love the rest of the game. I mean, give me a mechwarriors 5 style proc-gen career mode here with the bosses being optional challenges, add co-op, and I'd probably never stop playing.

[angelsenvy228]

I usually run linear rifle, pulse sword, songbirds and plasma missiles on a heavy reverse leg mech that's as fast as I can get it to go with the biggest generator lol. I switch linear rifle to plasma rifle on some bosses if the linear isn't doing any work. I'm not running quad shotguns or tank treads or double gatlings double songbirds or wormguns or anything, just a kind of all-rounder build.

[D. Flame]

Nguyên văn bởi angelsenvy228:

I don't get these complaints because I have just been building the mech I wanted to so far and not been shoehorned into some meta to beat a boss. The only exceptions being using pulse weapons for pulse shields (obviously) and sometimes using tetrapod if I want/need to be able to hover in a situation or fight more than my spring chicken build will let me. What weapons/setup are you wanting to use you feel the game is locking you out of? Every boss has definitely not been a puzzle beyond figuring out if I want to fly or not or if it has pulse shields (I'm only on Ambush the Vespers so I can't speak for the rest of the bosses yet, every Arena AC I used my normal build I take into any level and I beat the S ranks)

With the exception of my arena burner build in AC2 (2 uzis and high speed vertical missiles to cause overheat), all of my ACs in previous games have been medium to long range specialists. This game is specifically set up to punish and prevent you from playing at those ranges.

[connordavisj]

I completed the entire game using only missile launchers as soon as I got access to them, using only the heavy thick two legged body because that's the look I enjoy.

I got to "express" my preferred build from start to finish and had an absolute blast. Get ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ good.

[Castile]

Nguyên văn bởi connordavisj:

I completed the entire game using only missile launchers as soon as I got access to them, using only the heavy thick two legged body because that's the look I enjoy.

I got to "express" my preferred build from start to finish and had an absolute blast. Get ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ good.

I'm not sure you can say "get good" when you're using a build that has only homing shots with the highest range in the game.

[Dorkwing]

All these people insisting this is a 'souls like' where you're forced to play a certain way act like they never played 4 or 4a...

There are SO MANY different ways to play this game and win but you have to play based on your build obviously...

You wanna run light dual shotties? Fine, be fast and dodge alot

You wanna run treads with dual gattys and heavy shoulders? Fine do that and spam2win

You wanna run a full on Vero Nork style missile boat while hanging back? OK sure, do that

You wanna go long range and do charge based sniper gameplay? you CAN do that if you learn proper shot timing

The only thing you CANNOT do in this game is dual blade builds and that is a shame.

Stop acting like Armored Core 1-3 was heaven on earth while this is hell... the reality is that game technology has advanced, and this game is the logical progression of a vision that has been explored for decades in japanese mecha of various iterations.

You want slow walking tanks with bunny hops? Go play mechwarrior... seriously.

[Funpire]

Nguyên văn bởi Sports:

I'm sort of baffled by what the intended gameplay loop seems to be here. When I heard that the game was about experimenting and customizing your cool mech it sounded pretty interesting. But it seems to me that its less about actual player expression and more about solving a combat puzzle that is different every level.

I get that it just might not be for me, and it might just be as simple as me needed to get better in general. But the loop seems to be either:

1) enter level > win in like 2min > no really like any level with no boss in it is just a steamroll and is over the moment you start having actual fun

2) enter level > get destroyed > try again > get destroyed > try again and rush to checkpoint > break immersion and change mech to hard counter boss > hit head against wall until somehow you win before the boss stuns you to death

obviously scenario #2 is heavily based on me just being ♥♥♥♥ but i think it still holds true that the game is less of a customizable action game and more like a sort of combat puzzle with a clearly intended loadout for each fight. The big problem is you dont know what that loadout is until you get to the fight. meaning you have to find a balance mid-attempt between trying again with a mech build you actually like vs throwing in the towel and just equipping the counter build. i keep hearing people mention how the game is all about experimentation, and i guess in a way thats true, but its like an experiment in high school science class where you know what the outcome it going to be every time until you do the obviously correct thing

i 100% know that the game is about swapping out mech parts all the time, its just that I, and lots of other people, really dont want to. I wanna build my dream mech and conquer all the challenges ahead using it, when i heard that the game was about building a mech and experimenting with your build i didnt think it meant solving a new lego puzzle each level

So what does everyone else think? Is this how the old AC games were like? what do you feel about the insane difference between difficulty between levels? Am I just ♥♥♥♥ and actually every build is perfectly viable as long as you're good enough? Would love to know what people think because i dont think this this aspect of the game specifically has been talked about that much

The only thing I don't like is the 2 minute levels. The bosses that were sort of challenging before rolling a tank with gatling guns, are all super easy in NG+. Most mech based bosses are outright dead in 1 stagger combo. I don't know the old AC games, but Sekiro bosses were... Really, really hard for me. This isn't the case here.

The short levels though.... I mean... I totally want longer levels, with more mechs, and MORE mech battles. I want to fight entire packs of S-class arena mechs in levels, as normal enemies.

[connordavisj]

Nguyên văn bởi Castile:

Nguyên văn bởi connordavisj:

I completed the entire game using only missile launchers as soon as I got access to them, using only the heavy thick two legged body because that's the look I enjoy.

I got to "express" my preferred build from start to finish and had an absolute blast. Get ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ good.

I'm not sure you can say "get good" when you're using a build that has only homing shots with the highest range in the game.

And for that I sacrifice responsive weapons that can punish enemy mistakes. My build is based entirely around attrition, especially fort he more mobile bosses who will avoid the overwhelming majority of what I sling at them. My entire goal is to whittle them down while out-surviving them in a protracted battle. Every weapon in this game has its ups and downs, as does every build.

[BKo]

Nguyên văn bởi Dorkwing:

All these people insisting this is a 'souls like' where you're forced to play a certain way act like they never played 4 or 4a...

There are SO MANY different ways to play this game and win but you have to play based on your build obviously...

You wanna run light dual shotties? Fine, be fast and dodge alot

You wanna run treads with dual gattys and heavy shoulders? Fine do that and spam2win

You wanna run a full on Vero Nork style missile boat while hanging back? OK sure, do that

You wanna go long range and do charge based sniper gameplay? you CAN do that if you learn proper shot timing

The only thing you CANNOT do in this game is dual blade builds and that is a shame.

Stop acting like Armored Core 1-3 was heaven on earth while this is hell... the reality is that game technology has advanced, and this game is the logical progression of a vision that has been explored for decades in japanese mecha of various iterations.

You want slow walking tanks with bunny hops? Go play mechwarrior... seriously.

Nah, the complaints probably come from 4th genners because those were piss easy. You didn't even have to buy a single part in AC4 because they start you with a mid tier mech and the game is just short and easy in general. So far AC6 isn't anywhere near as hard as Last Raven was and anyone who 100%ed that game would not be complaining about this kind of crap.

[STORMCROW]

You actually could replay missions in part 1. After beating the game.
This part is as similar to AC 1/2 as Doom 16 is to doom 1/2.