HDR Warning :: ARMORED CORE™ VI FIRES OF RUBICON™ General Discussions

IceBoneBadger has ARMORED CORE™ VI FIRES OF RUBICON™

Aug 26, 2023 @ 8:16pm

I didn't have this issue the first time I played. All of a sudden it happened today despite no changes in settings. Everything has a washed out gray filter. I have an HDR monitor and HDR was turned on in game settings. Tried adjusting brightness and saturation, but it didn't fix the problem. I turned off HDR in game settings and it got rid of the washed out gray filter.

#76

Roland

Aug 26, 2023 @ 8:26pm

Originally posted by Abysswalker:
Originally posted by ShadowArcanist:
Have you even tried turning it off or your just of great insight to let us know our settings are wrong. What settings are you talking about anyway? The one in game whee we turn it on? lol
I have HDR in windows on at all times.

How do you not have artifacting in dark areas on streamed content??

On Youtube, Netflix, and Prime when I tried Windows HDR i got blocky artifacts in dark areas. At first I thought it was a net issue until I got sick of it while watching The Boys and started testing. Replayed this one scene 4 times in a row to make sure it was definitely Windows HDR causing it, and well, yea...

#77

Sacb0y

Aug 26, 2023 @ 8:51pm

Originally posted by Roland:
Originally posted by Abysswalker:
I have HDR in windows on at all times.
How do you not have artifacting in dark areas on streamed content??

On Youtube, Netflix, and Prime when I tried Windows HDR i got blocky artifacts in dark areas. At first I thought it was a net issue until I got sick of it while watching The Boys and started testing. Replayed this one scene 4 times in a row to make sure it was definitely Windows HDR causing it, and well, yea...

I also have HDR on at all times but I have the SDR brightness set to low.

This is not windows HDR but a consequence of lower color depth on a high color depth screen. Usually your display tries to manage it but ti's harder with HDR to SDR.

Better your display is at distinguishing black levels worse it can be. Check this out in both modes to see what I mean.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

Lowering the brightness level of SDR in the HDR windows settings can help.

#78

Roland

Aug 26, 2023 @ 9:23pm

Originally posted by Sacb0y:
Originally posted by Roland:
How do you not have artifacting in dark areas on streamed content??

On Youtube, Netflix, and Prime when I tried Windows HDR i got blocky artifacts in dark areas. At first I thought it was a net issue until I got sick of it while watching The Boys and started testing. Replayed this one scene 4 times in a row to make sure it was definitely Windows HDR causing it, and well, yea...

I also have HDR on at all times but I have the SDR brightness set to low.

This is not windows HDR but a consequence of lower color depth on a high color depth screen. Usually your display tries to manage it but ti's harder with HDR to SDR.

Better your display is at distinguishing black levels worse it can be. Check this out in both modes to see what I mean.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

Lowering the brightness level of SDR in the HDR windows settings can help.

Okay so a couple of things:
1, your help is appreciated, as this is my first HDR screen so I can't tell if it's good (the TCL branding and Windows reporting it as "Beyond TV" give me little confidence)

2, in SDR I can't see the first row, in HDR I can see all of them

3, I forgot how there's like this grey film over everything when HDR's on. I'm guessing this is due to it being SDR content, since I do see improvements in saturation when I turn up the SDR brightness, but like you said that exacerbates the blacks issue. I'm not seeing away to remove the grey-ness... (this alone might stop me from using it, as it makes text ever so slightly harder to read)

Incidentally this vid happened to be in my feed, and happens to be useful as an example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L8yUY-doNc
The upper right corner above his display case back there is just a blob of artifacts when HDR is on and completely beautiful, crisp, 1080p when off. (well I mean it's a dark corner, but like it's not all blocky)

It's there with SDR brightness min or max, but at max I can see all kinds of banding on the walls too that isn't there in SDR. Also Auto HDR off and HDR Vid Streaming on.

I wouldn't take offense if you told me my TV's HDR was crap in the end, i'm poor and can't always get the nicest things, but if I can make this HDR stuff usable that could be nice

Edit:
Oh also your help inspired me to dig into this again and last time the HDR calibration tool wasn't ready, this time it is available and going through the motions there did make it better than it used to be, but I did that before typing up this reply, so all the above still applies

Edit 2:
Just went through that HDR demo you posted previously. Don't really know what to do with the info though...
Whites washed out after 1000, I see no trace of blooming, and seem to have no ABL.

Edit 3:
Turns out Firefox doesn't support HDR content. Go figure...
And turning off HDR vid Streaming in Windows does nothing for Firefox.
Feel like I should probably just go back to giving up on HDR lol

Last edited by Roland; Aug 26, 2023 @ 9:56pm

#79

Shibe

Aug 26, 2023 @ 10:15pm

Just as FYI I've had the game running Fullscreen all this time and it would automatically go into HDR mode. If I switched to borderless so I could stream it would disable automatically.

I just had it where it went greyscale/washed out and it was because it didn't engage fullscreen properly (I could alt-tab quickly). Doing alt-tab again engaged fullscreen again (screen blacked out for a few seconds) and HDR was working properly.

I don't have HDR on in win10, From games seem to engage it itself regardless.

#80

BrunoVaas

Aug 26, 2023 @ 10:56pm

Originally posted by Stabbo:
It seems to work sometimes and not others. Currently using an LG c1 on a 4090/7800x3d at 4k/120 with everything maxed. Sometimes it looks good but occasionally when mission loads in the HDR will be borked and washed out. Seems like a technical issue. Haven't run into anything like this before, guessing it will get ironed out.

It won't be fixed. HDR in Elden Ring is still broken. It is cause by using old Api in their games and it is glitches in fullscreen mode. As you see it's randomly working or not. It could be easy fixed by set to Fullscreen windowed mode but as up I wrote they uses old Api so HDR don't work on windowed mode. It seems HDR in their games work by using files like directx from drivers so reinstall or install drivers helps for a while. Mods that fixed HDR in Elden Ring just enable HDR working in windowed mode that's all but EAC is blocking start game exe so after use a moded dll file you have to play in offline mode by blocking EAC. I had the same problem in The Division 2. HDR was randomly washed out but set to windowed mode permanently fixed the problem. In Armored Core, Sekiro and Elden Ring you cannot set HDR in windowed mode so that why it will not be fixed. So you have three options, the first is reinstall all the time gpu driver when the screen is washed out, the second is turn off hdr and the last is use a mod that allow you to turn on HDR on windowed mode but with mod you have to play in offline mode only.

Last edited by BrunoVaas; Aug 26, 2023 @ 11:19pm

#81

Void

Aug 26, 2023 @ 11:02pm

Gayscale

#82

Sacb0y

Aug 26, 2023 @ 11:08pm

Originally posted by Roland:
Originally posted by Sacb0y:

I also have HDR on at all times but I have the SDR brightness set to low.

This is not windows HDR but a consequence of lower color depth on a high color depth screen. Usually your display tries to manage it but ti's harder with HDR to SDR.

Better your display is at distinguishing black levels worse it can be. Check this out in both modes to see what I mean.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

Lowering the brightness level of SDR in the HDR windows settings can help.
Okay so a couple of things:
1, your help is appreciated, as this is my first HDR screen so I can't tell if it's good (the TCL branding and Windows reporting it as "Beyond TV" give me little confidence)

2, in SDR I can't see the first row, in HDR I can see all of them

3, I forgot how there's like this grey film over everything when HDR's on. I'm guessing this is due to it being SDR content, since I do see improvements in saturation when I turn up the SDR brightness, but like you said that exacerbates the blacks issue. I'm not seeing away to remove the grey-ness... (this alone might stop me from using it, as it makes text ever so slightly harder to read)

Incidentally this vid happened to be in my feed, and happens to be useful as an example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L8yUY-doNc
The upper right corner above his display case back there is just a blob of artifacts when HDR is on and completely beautiful, crisp, 1080p when off. (well I mean it's a dark corner, but like it's not all blocky)

It's there with SDR brightness min or max, but at max I can see all kinds of banding on the walls too that isn't there in SDR. Also Auto HDR off and HDR Vid Streaming on.

I wouldn't take offense if you told me my TV's HDR was crap in the end, i'm poor and can't always get the nicest things, but if I can make this HDR stuff usable that could be nice

Edit:
Oh also your help inspired me to dig into this again and last time the HDR calibration tool wasn't ready, this time it is available and going through the motions there did make it better than it used to be, but I did that before typing up this reply, so all the above still applies

Edit 2:
Just went through that HDR demo you posted previously. Don't really know what to do with the info though...
Whites washed out after 1000, I see no trace of blooming, and seem to have no ABL.

Edit 3:
Turns out Firefox doesn't support HDR content. Go figure...
And turning off HDR vid Streaming in Windows does nothing for Firefox.
Feel like I should probably just go back to giving up on HDR lol

If you can't see the top bar in SDR then your displays calibration is bad. It's less that you don't see the banding and more that the blacks are so crushed the banding just isn't visible at all.

Ideally you should be able to reasonably distinguish each square.

Your HDR mode is just a bit better at the color range but maybe it's too good and you should consider adjusting a contrast setting. Also settings like "HDMI black level" being set to low can help, this setting is in your monitor or TV.

Also I presume your display is large?

#83

Roland

Aug 27, 2023 @ 12:24am

Originally posted by Sacb0y:
Originally posted by Roland:
Okay so a couple of things:
1, your help is appreciated, as this is my first HDR screen so I can't tell if it's good (the TCL branding and Windows reporting it as "Beyond TV" give me little confidence)

2, in SDR I can't see the first row, in HDR I can see all of them

3, I forgot how there's like this grey film over everything when HDR's on. I'm guessing this is due to it being SDR content, since I do see improvements in saturation when I turn up the SDR brightness, but like you said that exacerbates the blacks issue. I'm not seeing away to remove the grey-ness... (this alone might stop me from using it, as it makes text ever so slightly harder to read)

Incidentally this vid happened to be in my feed, and happens to be useful as an example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L8yUY-doNc
The upper right corner above his display case back there is just a blob of artifacts when HDR is on and completely beautiful, crisp, 1080p when off. (well I mean it's a dark corner, but like it's not all blocky)

It's there with SDR brightness min or max, but at max I can see all kinds of banding on the walls too that isn't there in SDR. Also Auto HDR off and HDR Vid Streaming on.

I wouldn't take offense if you told me my TV's HDR was crap in the end, i'm poor and can't always get the nicest things, but if I can make this HDR stuff usable that could be nice

Edit:
Oh also your help inspired me to dig into this again and last time the HDR calibration tool wasn't ready, this time it is available and going through the motions there did make it better than it used to be, but I did that before typing up this reply, so all the above still applies

Edit 2:
Just went through that HDR demo you posted previously. Don't really know what to do with the info though...
Whites washed out after 1000, I see no trace of blooming, and seem to have no ABL.

Edit 3:
Turns out Firefox doesn't support HDR content. Go figure...
And turning off HDR vid Streaming in Windows does nothing for Firefox.
Feel like I should probably just go back to giving up on HDR lol
If you can't see the top bar in SDR then your displays calibration is bad. It's less that you don't see the banding and more that the blacks are so crushed the banding just isn't visible at all.

Ideally you should be able to reasonably distinguish each square.

Your HDR mode is just a bit better at the color range but maybe it's too good and you should consider adjusting a contrast setting. Also settings like "HDMI black level" being set to low can help, this setting is in your monitor or TV.

Also I presume your display is large?

Yea it's a 40" (I sit about 7 feet away)

So I feel like a bit of a dumb dumb not fiddling with the TV settings AFTER setting HDR. Turns out some of them change when HDR's on, such as Black Level going from 48 to 55.

Turning black level down did remove the grey film, and I can even get the colors to a good vibrance while still maintaining a good test page, then I look at that corner again and it's just surrounded by banding, though the artifacting is a bit smaller.

I tried fiddling with the dynamic contrast, micro contrast, black level, black stretching (this does not look great, idk why this exists) and gamma; I can't find a combination that gives me good color, doesn't crush the corner in that vid, and maintains the black test page.
It's always 2 out of 3; with my best non-crushing blacks killing the first 10 squares of the test page.

I even tried all of these in both PC and Game mode; I think this TV might just be too cheap for decent HDR (Windows does mention it's not certified, but best I can tell that doesn't mean much)

#84

Sacb0y

Aug 27, 2023 @ 12:32am

Originally posted by Roland:
Originally posted by Sacb0y:
If you can't see the top bar in SDR then your displays calibration is bad. It's less that you don't see the banding and more that the blacks are so crushed the banding just isn't visible at all.

Ideally you should be able to reasonably distinguish each square.

Your HDR mode is just a bit better at the color range but maybe it's too good and you should consider adjusting a contrast setting. Also settings like "HDMI black level" being set to low can help, this setting is in your monitor or TV.

Also I presume your display is large?
Yea it's a 40" (I sit about 7 feet away)

So I feel like a bit of a dumb dumb not fiddling with the TV settings AFTER setting HDR. Turns out some of them change when HDR's on, such as Black Level going from 48 to 55.

Turning black level down did remove the grey film, and I can even get the colors to a good vibrance while still maintaining a good test page, then I look at that corner again and it's just surrounded by banding, though the artifacting is a bit smaller.

I tried fiddling with the dynamic contrast, micro contrast, black level, black stretching (this does not look great, idk why this exists) and gamma; I can't find a combination that gives me good color, doesn't crush the corner in that vid, and maintains the black test page.
It's always 2 out of 3; with my best non-crushing blacks killing the first 10 squares of the test page.

I even tried all of these in both PC and Game mode; I think this TV might just be too cheap for decent HDR (Windows does mention it's not certified, but best I can tell that doesn't mean much)

Note this is a consequence of larger displays, it's why HDR really needs to be more common. I personally game on a 55" :P.

Because of the limited range of color when you blow the image up the banding becomes apparent regardless of resolution or image quality. Unless the content is HDR darker areas will exhibit banding.

If your display was more color calibrated for SDR (meaning you could see the full black level range) you'd likely see some of the same issues. your TV would mitigate those issues as best it can but they would still be there.

All that said I know rtings.com often post some calibration ideas.

Last edited by Sacb0y; Aug 27, 2023 @ 12:33am

#85

Roland

Aug 27, 2023 @ 12:43am

Originally posted by Sacb0y:
Originally posted by Roland:
Yea it's a 40" (I sit about 7 feet away)

So I feel like a bit of a dumb dumb not fiddling with the TV settings AFTER setting HDR. Turns out some of them change when HDR's on, such as Black Level going from 48 to 55.

Turning black level down did remove the grey film, and I can even get the colors to a good vibrance while still maintaining a good test page, then I look at that corner again and it's just surrounded by banding, though the artifacting is a bit smaller.

I tried fiddling with the dynamic contrast, micro contrast, black level, black stretching (this does not look great, idk why this exists) and gamma; I can't find a combination that gives me good color, doesn't crush the corner in that vid, and maintains the black test page.
It's always 2 out of 3; with my best non-crushing blacks killing the first 10 squares of the test page.

I even tried all of these in both PC and Game mode; I think this TV might just be too cheap for decent HDR (Windows does mention it's not certified, but best I can tell that doesn't mean much)
Note this is a consequence of larger displays, it's why HDR really needs to be more common. I personally game on a 55" :P.

Because of the limited range of color when you blow the image up the banding becomes apparent regardless of resolution or image quality. Unless the content is HDR darker areas will exhibit banding.

If your display was more color calibrated for SDR (meaning you could see the full black level range) you'd likely see some of the same issues. your TV would mitigate those issues as best it can but they would still be there.

All that said I know rtings.com often post some calibration ideas.

So to say this TV is fickle feels like an understatement.
At 48 out of 100 Black Level I can't see the top 5 in SDR.
At 50 I can see the top row in SDR

So you helped me get my SDR calibration right at least

It's almost 4am so I'm gonna stop banging my head against the wall over this for now and sleep; maybe I'll resume tomorrow

Thank you a ton for your help, even if I don't ever get this HDR perfect, your efforts were greatly appreciated (and I bookmarked that LCD test page and have that HDR demo!

)

#86

Sam Urai

Aug 29, 2023 @ 10:24am

To all the people talking about whether the screen supports HDR, this is not a new issue. It happens to HDR screens just like it did in Elden Ring. Usually if alt-tabbing doesn't reset it then restarting your PC fixes it. I'm having no luck with either today, just wish From Software would implement HDR properly...

#87