Mouse and Keyboard or Controller?

[NoiosoBear]

This is my first Armored Core game and I primarily play mouse and keyboard. The only games that I use controller for are souls like games that aren't shooters. So basically DS3, Elden Ring, Code Vein, etc...

The gameplay show multiple weapons being used at once, so I was wondering how that would work on mouse and keyboard. Would controller just be more viable in general?

Edit: It's crazy how many viewpoints there are about this topic. Looks like I'll give KB+M a shot, then switch to controller if I have issues. My mouse has two extra buttons, so assuming that right click is also used to fire I should be fine.

[Roland]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Originally posted by Blackmage:

IMO, AC6 isn't as viable as I would like with a standard gaming controller.
With each weapon slot being given its own trigger/bumper, where do your boosting/dodging buttons go? They got shoved over to the face buttons. So, unless you're in hard-lock mode, you cannot turn your head and boost at the same time. Anyone who's ever played a shooter can immediately tell how big of a problem that can be. "So just use hard-lock." But you have to remember hard-lock will also come with accuracy penalties.

KBM players will be better off if they have a gaming mouse with at least 4-5 buttons. They'll be able to play the game without ever using hard-lock. WSAD still restricts them to only 8 directions of movement at any given time. That would drive me nuts, but if that's what you're use to, then all the power to you.

I think the best way to play AC6 will be with a controller with paddle buttons, like the Xbox Elite Series 2, or Sony's Dual Sense Edge. Your ring fingers aren't doing anything else, so you might as well give them a set of buttons.

Clearly you've not actually played a lot of games on console if you don't know how to manage thumbstick and face buttons at the same time. The various permutations of claw method handle that quite well, and it's easy to modify the claw grip to suit your particular hands without too much fatigue.

I'd blow their mind every time I press an Xbox A button while tilting the right stick with the same thumb I push the button with.
Anyone who's played FPS on controller without Bumper Jumper as an optional control profile has learned this skill (or is trash lol)

[Melomaniak]

If mouse and keyboard works great. Ill definitely be going that route.

[Euphamia]

Fromsoft games tend to be controller based but have pretty good kb+m support. But the game will be made for the controller.

[Viperveteran]

I will probably use the ps3 nunchuck and a mmo mouse. If not the logitech g13 and a mmo mouse. I can't figure out what method will feel more intuitive it is hard to tell.

I guess if you have to press multiple buttons at once or in quick succession the kb+m setup will be best. Using the d-pad for instance usually requires a slight pause. It all depends on what the layouts are.

[caguamo110111011]

I haven't played too many mech games except for mechwarrior online, Hawken, Astebreed, Lost Planet 1 and few others, going to say K/M is a must for intense fights otherwise controller is pretty chill, both are viable options.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Blackmage:

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Clearly you've not actually played a lot of games on console if you don't know how to manage thumbstick and face buttons at the same time. The various permutations of claw method handle that quite well, and it's easy to modify the claw grip to suit your particular hands without too much fatigue.

My console experience goes all the way back to SNES, kiddo; and I'm fully aware of the claw grip as well.

No player should have to adopt a claw grip to play a game at full potential. And no player should have to buy a special controller to do so either. But if that's what people want to do, all the power to them. But I can still say it's a design flaw of AC6, because it is.

Ah yes, the eternal refuge of those with no valid argument: Call the other party a kid, despite knowing nothing about their own age or experience.
FTR: My first video game experience was an older sibling's NES. My first game device was an original grey game boy.
NONE of those older references are remotely relevant to the discussion of modern console controllers. To argue that, you'd have to be bringing up the dual analog PS1 controller of the late 90s. Even the N64 wouldn't be relevant, given that iirc ALL the games for it took care not to require the use of more than two prongs at the same time.

You made the claim that the game isn't 'viable' on a standard gamepad, because of requiring use of all triggers, both sticks, and, theoretically, the face buttons, all at the same time. That is untrue. Your specific qualifier there was that if boost is on face buttons you can't boost and move your aim at the same time. Even without claw grip, that is untrue. You can absolutely hit the A button while also still directing the thumbstick with the same thumb. Furthermore it relies on ignoring the existence of lock-on, and that lock-on will almost certainly be a toggle, meaning it's not an all in on one or the other situation.

Any person not possessed of a disability can use the standard control scbemes adequately on a controller, with a standard grip (even ignoring claw, which I do consider to be a standard). This isn't like steel battalion.

[Roland]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Originally posted by Blackmage:

My console experience goes all the way back to SNES, kiddo; and I'm fully aware of the claw grip as well.

No player should have to adopt a claw grip to play a game at full potential. And no player should have to buy a special controller to do so either. But if that's what people want to do, all the power to them. But I can still say it's a design flaw of AC6, because it is.

Ah yes, the eternal refuge of those with no valid argument: Call the other party a kid, despite knowing nothing about their own age or experience.
FTR: My first video game experience was an older sibling's NES. My first game device was an original grey game boy.
NONE of those older references are remotely relevant to the discussion of modern console controllers. To argue that, you'd have to be bringing up the dual analog PS1 controller of the late 90s. Even the N64 wouldn't be relevant, given that iirc ALL the games for it took care not to require the use of more than two prongs at the same time.

You made the claim that the game isn't 'viable' on a standard gamepad, because of requiring use of all triggers, both sticks, and, theoretically, the face buttons, all at the same time. That is untrue. Your specific qualifier there was that if boost is on face buttons you can't boost and move your aim at the same time. Even without claw grip, that is untrue. You can absolutely hit the A button while also still directing the thumbstick with the same thumb. Furthermore it relies on ignoring the existence of lock-on, and that lock-on will almost certainly be a toggle, meaning it's not an all in on one or the other situation.

Any person not possessed of a disability can use the standard control scbemes adequately on a controller, with a standard grip (even ignoring claw, which I do consider to be a standard). This isn't like steel battalion.

Steel battalion!
For some reason I always think it was mechwarrior (or did mechwarrior also have it's own custom controller at one point?)

any way carry on. (I play FPS with controller and no aim assist so you'll get no argument from me on controller viability in anything that isn't an RTS lol)

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Roland:

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Ah yes, the eternal refuge of those with no valid argument: Call the other party a kid, despite knowing nothing about their own age or experience.
FTR: My first video game experience was an older sibling's NES. My first game device was an original grey game boy.
NONE of those older references are remotely relevant to the discussion of modern console controllers. To argue that, you'd have to be bringing up the dual analog PS1 controller of the late 90s. Even the N64 wouldn't be relevant, given that iirc ALL the games for it took care not to require the use of more than two prongs at the same time.

You made the claim that the game isn't 'viable' on a standard gamepad, because of requiring use of all triggers, both sticks, and, theoretically, the face buttons, all at the same time. That is untrue. Your specific qualifier there was that if boost is on face buttons you can't boost and move your aim at the same time. Even without claw grip, that is untrue. You can absolutely hit the A button while also still directing the thumbstick with the same thumb. Furthermore it relies on ignoring the existence of lock-on, and that lock-on will almost certainly be a toggle, meaning it's not an all in on one or the other situation.

Any person not possessed of a disability can use the standard control scbemes adequately on a controller, with a standard grip (even ignoring claw, which I do consider to be a standard). This isn't like steel battalion.

Steel battalion!
For some reason I always think it was mechwarrior (or did mechwarrior also have it's own custom controller at one point?)

any way carry on. (I play FPS with controller and no aim assist so you'll get no argument from me on controller viability in anything that isn't an RTS lol)

I dunno, I seem to remember the original Halo wars did pretty good with just a controller as an RTS. But then, that's the difference between a port and something designed from the ground up around the options allowed by the control scheme.
I used to play RDR1 and GTA4 with no aim assist and was pretty good at it.

Anymore the only time I play a shooter game with a controller is if it's a third person shooter from a 'legacy' series. Armored core would qualify as that, but I'm liable to see how it feels with M+K first. Monster hunter, even with bowgun or bow, still feels really weird to me with M+K while controller just feels comfy.

Either way, yeah, Armored Core isn't going to struggle with controls on controller in any notable way. They literally figured out functional control scheme with prior entries, and with even the top 1% players getting debatable advantage from special methods of holding/using controller. So there is no reason whatsoever to be on about it being 'bad design' the way the one guy is, especially when we haven't even played it yet.

[Roland]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Originally posted by Roland:

Steel battalion!
For some reason I always think it was mechwarrior (or did mechwarrior also have it's own custom controller at one point?)

any way carry on. (I play FPS with controller and no aim assist so you'll get no argument from me on controller viability in anything that isn't an RTS lol)

I dunno, I seem to remember the original Halo wars did pretty good with just a controller as an RTS. But then, that's the difference between a port and something designed from the ground up around the options allowed by the control scheme.
I used to play RDR1 and GTA4 with no aim assist and was pretty good at it.

Anymore the only time I play a shooter game with a controller is if it's a third person shooter from a 'legacy' series. Armored core would qualify as that, but I'm liable to see how it feels with M+K first. Monster hunter, even with bowgun or bow, still feels really weird to me with M+K while controller just feels comfy.

Either way, yeah, Armored Core isn't going to struggle with controls on controller in any notable way. They literally figured out functional control scheme with prior entries, and with even the top 1% players getting debatable advantage from special methods of holding/using controller. So there is no reason whatsoever to be on about it being 'bad design' the way the one guy is, especially when we haven't even played it yet.

LOL my trigger finger gets tired playing bow in MH. (but damn it if it isn't fun as hell)

And yea RTS have to be designed for it. I can't use kb+m for long periods anymore and I miss Starcraft on the regular. I've spent days thinking about ways I could attempt to make it playable on controller but it would not be a great experience; the N64 version got away with it because it was WAY slower.
I've managed stuff for Total War Shogun 2, but the RTS stuff is optional there so if I got into a bind I can always let the AI do the work for me.

Also I can't wait for the resurrection of the reverse grip memes.

[seedmole]

Originally posted by FPSAries:

The OG players are gonna likely say controller, but we just don't know how M&K will feel. I'd say keep controller handy and try M&K if you want or stick to how it has been played throughout with controller.

hardly, we played with what we were offered and always took whatever chances they gave us to try different controls. vets are gonna be the first people toying around with kbm to see if it's viable.

[SlicedAndDiced]

Originally posted by Fractured:

Originally posted by SlicedAndDiced:

Hotas

Gluck with that lol. Truly, I hope its awesome. But I'm not getting my hopes high, this isn't Mechwarrior.

what do you mean its easy to do just takes time to set-up did it with an emulator and a remaping tool woked fine ;P did it last year for AC3

[GUNHED]

i have been watching videos on that exact topic today, and it seems mk+b is really viable

[Xisa]

Maybe I’m just stupid but the controls don’t seem to work in the first boss fight? My gun doesn’t fire even though it shows full ammo, missiles don’t fire. Only damn thing that works is the blade. Even assault boost doesn’t work on steam deck.

[Andy4200]

Originally posted by Xisa:

Maybe I’m just stupid but the controls don’t seem to work in the first boss fight? My gun doesn’t fire even though it shows full ammo, missiles don’t fire. Only damn thing that works is the blade. Even assault boost doesn’t work on steam deck.

Same here.. everything works with controller except LT and RT for guns and sword..
ive got the same thing across the Astro C-40, X-box con,and PS5 controller..

[Roland]

Originally posted by Xisa:

Maybe I’m just stupid but the controls don’t seem to work in the first boss fight? My gun doesn’t fire even though it shows full ammo, missiles don’t fire. Only damn thing that works is the blade. Even assault boost doesn’t work on steam deck.

Originally posted by Andy4200:

Originally posted by Xisa:

Maybe I’m just stupid but the controls don’t seem to work in the first boss fight? My gun doesn’t fire even though it shows full ammo, missiles don’t fire. Only damn thing that works is the blade. Even assault boost doesn’t work on steam deck.

Same here.. everything works with controller except LT and RT for guns and sword..
ive got the same thing across the Astro C-40, X-box con,and PS5 controller..

Sounds like a jacked profile.
Did you guys make sure the Gamepad template was applied to the controls in the Steam overlay?
Also one of you reports problems with RB/R1 and the other does not, you guys might not even be having the same issue; either way I'd start by checking the controller profile