Fun vs Unfun secrets

[Big Gay Bunny]

I'm of the opinion that any secret that requires I go get out-of-game resources is a bad secret. Make it as convoluted as you want, but let me solve it entirely within the confines of the game. The moment I have to tab out to a site or even just grab a pen and paper, I'm pulled out of the flow state and the gameplay is disrupted.

And even if my first run-in with this is a puzzle where it's obvious I have to do this, now it throws every other puzzle into question. Can I not figure out this secret because I just haven't thought it out yet, or is it hinging on me googling something? How can I trust the game that I'm not just wasting my time on any stumpers now?

And that aside, it's just a lot less fun if there's busywork involved instead of just problem solving. If you want me to know a second alphabet, give me a game mechanic to do so. There's a couple others as well, that's just my example. I'm hoping I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[paulbbg]

I will move this over to the spoilers sub section, as I imagine the talk here will dip into that direction, I think its fair to say the two secret languages in the game both require some sitting down and processing on paper to solve completely, as well as the cryptic puzzles also, of which have been popular enough to add more in the upcoming update.

I can't really speak to if its fun vs unfun for the player base as a whole, though I will say it has been our intention to keep that stuff -mostly- out of the core gameplay loop, really only making it required to do once in the game, in part, to hint a pathway to revealing the additional puzzles that sit under the gameplay layer.

My development thoughts is it is not entirely practical to wrap everything in gameplay mechanics to warrant inclusion (especially stuff so far from the core gameplay loop), if that were the case a lot of the game/games elements would have been left on the cutting room floor or the game never releasing entirely, and development time/costs have been a real concern through the entire of Cryptmaster's development, this is a huge game for me to program by myself, and we -just- scraped this thing over the finish line.

[Derriere]

Look, I'm just gunna put this out there for OP: "grabbing a pen and paper" is not out of game for a dungeon crawler with puzzles, this is exactly the kind of game that benefits from light note taking. If you think you can keep track of quests or locations or lore that might be relevant to gameplay just off the top of your head, more power too ya, but keeping a notebook for game scribbles can also bring a whole new layer to a game like this.

When I saw the first whiff of an alternate alphabet/cypher I was more than happy to whip out the notepad i keep on my desk, having to take little notes in a game lets me get more immersed.
Fun is relative to each player. If it sounds like a bother to decipher a second alphabet in places where it is optional, then you don't do it, you don't need to platinum a game to call it fun/good.

I can't speak for the googling, though, I doubt this game would expect you to google an answer with no other way of figuring it out. Usually getting stuck can just mean it's time to take a break, come back later when your brain has had time to rest. Any good puzzle game should stump you once in a while.