Party Build for Full Play Through

[mike_hanna211]

I'm curious how everyone builds a party for a full play through. I remember first time I got to Secret of the Silver Blades and my elves could no longer level up. When I managed to move onto Pools of Darkness, my party was severely over-matched by the enemies. And I felt horrible that I went through 3 other games to find out I couldn't beat the last game.

My current party that I started when I picked up this collection is:

Dwarven Fighter (sword & shield)
Human Fighter (2-handed weapons)
Human Cleric
Halfling Thief
Human Magic-User
Human Magic-User

I plan to drop the Dwarven Fighter when I get into Curse of the Azure Bonds. Then I'll create a Human Paladin.

What's everyone else's build(s)?

[Giant2112Cat]

I am about in the middle of Secret with the same party since POR:
Dwarf Fighter - usually 2-handed
Half-Elf Fighter/Magic User - pretty weak at first
Half-Elf Fighter/Cleric
Human Cleric
Elf Magic User
Halfling Fighter/Thief (who is now quite the badass)

I probably would like a Paladin or Ranger, but seem to be doing fine.

[mike_hanna211]

Originally posted by Giant2112Cat:

I am about in the middle of Secret with the same party since POR:
Dwarf Fighter - usually 2-handed
Half-Elf Fighter/Magic User - pretty weak at first
Half-Elf Fighter/Cleric
Human Cleric
Elf Magic User
Halfling Fighter/Thief (who is now quite the badass)

I probably would like a Paladin or Ranger, but seem to be doing fine.

I think you'll hit the racial level limits for all you multi-classed characters except your Halfling Fighter/Thief (since Thief is the only class that is unlimited for every race). If you haven't already.

It'll be tough going in Pools of Darkness if you continue with that party.

[Giant2112Cat]

Yes, but I am doing doing the Gold Box Companion level up and going back to the training halls. It lets you level up past the set limits. I know, not staying true to the original!

[vgifford]

Humans all the way. Unless its a thief. In first edition dungeons and dragons, ONLY humans had unlimited level advancement.

Gold Box "ignores" First edition rules when leveling demi-humans.

Gold box has many "quality of life" improvements (cheats?) that just violate the original rules.

In first edition Dungeons and Dragons, leveling cost money, took time and required trainers. Hence the 1000 GP leveling fee in the training hall.

A party could not level up, on the fly, for free, in the middle of a dungeon.

[mike_hanna211]

Originally posted by vgifford:

Humans all the way. Unless its a thief. In first edition dungeons and dragons, ONLY humans had unlimited level advancement.

Gold Box "ignores" First edition rules when leveling demi-humans.

Gold box has many "quality of life" improvements (cheats?) that just violate the original rules.

In first edition Dungeons and Dragons, leveling cost money, took time and required trainers. Hence the 1000 GP leveling fee in the training hall.

A party could not level up, on the fly, for free, in the middle of a dungeon.

I'm not sure what rules are violated with regards to demi-humans. The racial level limits are in place. I think some of the other racial abilities are not implemented properly or at all. Making them are hard choice to pick, besides the level limitations.

I agree on the other points about leveling taking time, money, etc. And, yeah you never level up in a dungeon. It was always AFTER leaving the dungeon (and the session was done) would the DM hand out XP. You go into a dungeon level 1, you were coming out at level 1.

[vgifford]

Originally posted by mike_hanna211:

I'm not sure what rules are violated with regards to demi-humans. The racial level limits are in place. I think some of the other racial abilities are not implemented properly or at all. Making them are hard choice to pick, besides the level limitations.

I was under the impression, that using Gold Box to level demihumans, goes beyond the normal level limits of the game. (I may be wrong on this point)

Excerpt from:

https://gbc.zorbus.net/

"Features
HUD above DOSBox window with hit points, character icons, XP meters, and effects. Shows good effects in green, bad in red. Also shows if a character is level drained.
Fix-command for Pool of Radiance. Works with the other games as well. Instantly heals the characters. Optionally also fixes level drained characters. Can not be used while in combat.
Temporarily change demihuman race to human to avoid experience level limits.

---> Optional level up without visiting training halls and without race-/game-related level limits.

Store the list of memorized spells and restore the spells with a single click. Can not be used while in combat.
Automap with party location. Notes can be added to the map.
World map view. Shows party location in some games.
Combat view. Shows character / monster locations. Shows if character/monster is held or helpless.
Journal entries."

[mike_hanna211]

Originally posted by vgifford:

Originally posted by mike_hanna211:

I'm not sure what rules are violated with regards to demi-humans. The racial level limits are in place. I think some of the other racial abilities are not implemented properly or at all. Making them are hard choice to pick, besides the level limitations.

I was under the impression, that using Gold Box to level demihumans, goes beyond the normal level limits of the game. (I may be wrong on this point)

Excerpt from:

https://gbc.zorbus.net/

"Features
HUD above DOSBox window with hit points, character icons, XP meters, and effects. Shows good effects in green, bad in red. Also shows if a character is level drained.
Fix-command for Pool of Radiance. Works with the other games as well. Instantly heals the characters. Optionally also fixes level drained characters. Can not be used while in combat.
Temporarily change demihuman race to human to avoid experience level limits.

---> Optional level up without visiting training halls and without race-/game-related level limits.

Store the list of memorized spells and restore the spells with a single click. Can not be used while in combat.
Automap with party location. Notes can be added to the map.
World map view. Shows party location in some games.
Combat view. Shows character / monster locations. Shows if character/monster is held or helpless.
Journal entries."

Ah ok... that's if the player chooses to use the GBC to level up. In my playthrough, I did not at all. I paid the 1000gp to train at the training hall. And I only have a Halfling thief.

I'm not sure why someone would use the GBC to do that. I think it takes away the spirit of the game.

[vgifford]

I'm more concerned with money bugs I'm running into. I pool/share money and get one guy getting 65536 Jewelry. I believe that is 2^16th. There's a bug there somewhere.

[Korgz]

I think you are somewhat confused. Gold Box refers to the series of games. GBC = Gold Box companion - it includes several cheats i.e. leveling up outside of training halls, demi human limits etc. The games actually follow the rules reasonably closely and PoR even charges 1000GP to level up!

The Gold box games do have several different rules i.e. multi class characters don't get the correct HP on level up but there aren't many of them.

That bug with jewlery typically happens in CotAB if you use the bugged ioun stones. I have heard of it in Pools of Radiance as well though.

[Some Guy In Ohio]

Correct, and I have to say this was a welcome addition for me. I only knew one DM in town back in those days that actually used those racial limits anyway, everyone else just figured having to split your XP three ways was penalty enough.

When I played through these games originally, I restarted my two PoR fighters with a Paladin and Ranger in CotAB. I ended up dual-classing a lot, primarily within Silver Blades. The only character that went through all four games was my Fighter\MU\Thief, and leveling him in the final game was a PAIN...

One thing that would have changed my mind, though, would have been if anybody I knew playing the game back then had been able to figure out how to get that Manual of Bodily Health to work. That would have definitely changed my direction if keep the characters all the way meant THAT many extra HP...

[mike_hanna211]

I just jumped into CotAB. I dropped my Dwarven Fighter and rolled a Human Paladin. I thought about Rangers, and while they're good, I decided to keep my Human Fighter.

My party is light on clerical spells now, but having almost all human characters means unlimited advancement in PoD. I could possibly dual-class my Fighter to Cleric once I get all my attacks per round; which I believe is level 13 for a Fighter. But I also don't know how buggy dual-classing is in these games. If I hit level 14 as a Cleric, would I get my 2 APR?

[vgifford]

Originally posted by Korgz:

I think you are somewhat confused. Gold Box refers to the series of games. GBC = Gold Box companion - it includes several cheats i.e. leveling up outside of training halls, demi human limits etc. The games actually follow the rules reasonably closely and PoR even charges 1000GP to level up!

Yes, I am quite familiar with Gold Box games and First Edition Dungeons and Dragons. I lived it the first time around when there was no gold box companion and people did it the hard way, True grognard here. I played the game(s) on my Commodore 64.

[Monty]

Bear the shorter lifespan in mind if you go with human characters; dual-classing is indeed awesome, but if you habitually use haste they will drop dead on you somewhere towards the end of COTAB.

[mike_hanna211]

Originally posted by Monty:

Bear the shorter lifespan in mind if you go with human characters; dual-classing is indeed awesome, but if you habitually use haste they will drop dead on you somewhere towards the end of COTAB.

That's a very good point, and why I rarely use Haste or potions of speed. Slow is used more than I use Haste, by far.

I think if a player is throwing around Haste spells for every major battle, there's something wrong with the party composition or their strategies.