What order to play Decisive Campaigns series? What gameplay differences are there between the games?

[merkava808]

I currently own DC: The Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris--as that made sense as the earliest/perhaps easiest phase of the war.

However, I have seen great reviews for Barbarossa, Ardennes Offensive, and Case Blue. Obviously, I could continue playing in chronological order--and if that's best, I'll do that--but I am curious what you all do and what your favorites are? Is there any gameplay differences between the games or is it solely time/theatre that is different? Considering I already own the Blitzkrieg one, which would you recommend next and why?

[eddieballgame]

Can only speak to Ardennes Offensive...highly recommended. On the Store page the 'ABOUT THIS GAME' covers what it offers, very, nicely.
I was drawn to this game via Vic's great game...Shadow Empire; btw, can't recommend that game enough, as well.
Note; I use the Matrix version (you get a Steam Key) & multiplayer is another, fun, way to enjoy this game. imho

[merkava808]

Originally posted by eddieballgame:

Can only speak to Ardennes Offensive...highly recommended. On the Store page the 'ABOUT THIS GAME' covers what it offers, very, nicely.
I was drawn to this game via Vic's great game...Shadow Empire; btw, can't recommend that game enough, as well.
Note; I use the Matrix version (you get a Steam Key) & multiplayer is another, fun, way to enjoy this game. imho

Hey! Oh you have experience with Shadow Empire??? I have STRONGLY, STRONGLY considered Shadow Empire... I came across it and it looked so cool! Wargaming rules but in a 4x environment sounded so awesome, but it kinda fell off my radar because some guy quipped that it "doesn't have much documentation" which scared me off for games with this level of complexity.

Would you recommend Shadow Empire?? If so, how did you learn to play/do you find that criticism I heard to be founded? If Shadow Empire is not as complex as I thought/easier to learn than I thought...maybe I should go in that direction? It really seemed like a huge breath of fresh air being that it was procedurally generated science fiction as opposed to the eastern front rehashed...

[merkava808]

Originally posted by eddieballgame:

Can only speak to Ardennes Offensive...highly recommended. On the Store page the 'ABOUT THIS GAME' covers what it offers, very, nicely.
I was drawn to this game via Vic's great game...Shadow Empire; btw, can't recommend that game enough, as well.
Note; I use the Matrix version (you get a Steam Key) & multiplayer is another, fun, way to enjoy this game. imho

I sent you a friend request if you happen to know more about Shadow Empire

[eddieballgame]

Originally posted by h4rry^ - merkava:

Originally posted by eddieballgame:

Can only speak to Ardennes Offensive...highly recommended. On the Store page the 'ABOUT THIS GAME' covers what it offers, very, nicely.
I was drawn to this game via Vic's great game...Shadow Empire; btw, can't recommend that game enough, as well.
Note; I use the Matrix version (you get a Steam Key) & multiplayer is another, fun, way to enjoy this game. imho

I sent you a friend request if you happen to know more about Shadow Empire

Shadow Empire is a superb 4x & my, personal, favorite. I have been playing it since the June 2020 release & the game has only improved over that time period.
I have read most of the criticisms/complaints about certain aspects of the game & all I can say about the bulk of those...no game is immune from such things.
Also, I don't agree with most of them, as well. :)
For me, Shadow Empire delivers in all the areas that I consider important per a 4x & I continue to enjoy what it offers...particularly in multiplayer.

My learning, if you will, has come from a plethora of videos (DasTactic & BATTLEMODE, to name 2), game play ( particularly via email & many losses :) ), & reading the wonderful manual.
Also the forums, in particular...the Matrix one, has been a huge boost to my understanding the complexities of this gem.
Finaly, Vic (dev) listens & responds to the community on a regular basis.
So yes...I highly recommend Shadow Empire & sorry this post drifted off your original topic; but at least it is another product from the same developer. :)

[fluidwill]

IMHO

Barbarossa is the simplest so if you want to dip your toe start there.
Ardennes is my favourite
The France scen in Blitzkrieg comes a close second.

They are all excellent so you might as well pick one you have an interest in or knowledge of and go from there.

[merkava808]

Originally posted by fluidwill:

IMHO

Barbarossa is the simplest so if you want to dip your toe start there.
Ardennes is my favourite
The France scen in Blitzkrieg comes a close second.

They are all excellent so you might as well pick one you have an interest in or knowledge of and go from there.

Oh wow Barbarossa is the simplest ? How is that given it is so large ? I assumed DC: Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris would be the simplest because its the early-war Axis...why is it that Barbarossa is the simplest ? Thank you so much in advance !

[fluidwill]

The scale, though the battle is large the number of counters is less and the counters themselves are more generic.

[Spellir_74]

The following DC game titles are Turn Based...
These DC games are basically each in their own separate series[plural] (with one title in each series), since they are all different combat-resolution scales and thus different mechanical rulez. Note Warsaw/Paris and Case Blau are same scale tho.

.Warsaw Paris -- I don't have. It is Rgt vs Rgt (early mechanical rulez?) [No Rgt HQs on map?]

.Barbarossa -- I have. It is Div vs Div combat resolution mechanics. It has an "Office Politics" overlay. Borderline "beer and pretzels" (easy, novice). Fun. [No Korps HQs on map]

.Case Blau -- I have; Many hours. It is Rgt vs Rgt. Most believable. (Easier than GaryGrigsby "War in East." Player does NOT build battle groups [rgt's attached assets]; KG's are pre built -- believable tho.) [No Div HQ's on map]

.Ardennes Offensive -- I have. Btn v Btn rulez. FUN; atmospheric -- a new winner of the WWII strategy (tile based) wargaming genre. BUT managing/building Battle groups ["KG"] is NOT accurate; And THAT is almost basically a deal breaker for me -- prevents me from starting it up again. [No Rgt HQ's on Map. BUT note Colonel Piper is CO of 1st rgt, 1st div SS and he is on map as his own CO (but his command is NOT called a KG [odd]). Piper was a special case tho: he was Hitter's handpicked "spitz", and thus given extra assets to build his KG. Other colonel-named KGs (one tile each) -- rgt HQs -- are on map [under their historical divs] but are not connected to their btns. THAT is odd. I am not convinced the devs know what a "KG" is.]

Note I have not played any of these titles as allies. Player as Russian command is possibly harder, I have heard.

...
Note I do not have Command Ops 2. THAT is a btn vs btn game; deemed best of class by some. It is "real time" (not turn based). The reason I do not have it is I do not like having to be online with steam to play it. Therefore I won't load demo. It is supposed to be good tho.

[nikdav]

There is a limit of 4 hq levels in the engine (low,mid,high,supreme), Division (low), Corps (mid), Army (high), Army Group (supreme) . So no space for regimental or KG hq.
I tryed to simulate the KG with this limit (Peiper is a division level), and i know isn't perfect.
I like to know what could be your "ideal " KG ?

[Spellir_74]

Hello Nikdav.

Maybe I was over critical, since I AM a royale curmudgeon.

DC Ardennes Offensive IS a great game. (I will probably eventually get the first Decisive Campaign title "Warsaw /Paris".)

AO is well received by the "community". Good job, Design team! (Rutins and the Slither twins and Vic and you et al must be very happy.) Congratulations!

.....
"Ideal KG"...

As we know...
"Kampfgruppe" [KG] IS a generic-size term. But it often meant "Rgt. Commanders' combined arms /mixed assets Battle Groups."

Assets were added temporarily for specific tasks. KG constituents can and do change over course of a campaign.

Here is example of a famous Ardennes div's (temporary) KG:

.....
SS.12 PzDiv new orders (after failing to get passed Elsenborn /the twin villages):

Kampfgruppe Müller will advance along Route B (Udenbreth - Malmédy - Spa - Theux) with the following components:
SS-PGR 25 (minus I Battalion)
12. SS Panzerjäger Abt. (21 Jagdpanthers armed with 75mm guns)
II Bat./12. SS Artillery Regt. (18 artillery pieces)
Two flak batteries
Engineer company

Kampfgruppe Krause will follow up on Route B with the following components:
SS-PGR 26 (minus III Bat.)
12th SS Artillery Regt. (minus I & II Battalion) - with eighteen 150mm and four 105mm guns
12th SS Werfer Abt. with 30 nebelwerfers
12th SS Flak Abt.
12th SS Pionier Abt.

Kampfgruppe Kuhlmann will take Route C (Losheim - Stavelot - La Glieze - Aywaille) formed from:
12th SS Panzer Regt. - 37 or 38 Panthers, 33 or 39 Mark IV's tanks (sources vary)
Heer Jagdpanzer Abteilung 560
III Bat./SS-PGR 26
I Bat./12. SS Artillery Regt. with 18 artillery pieces

Kampfgruppe Bremer, 12th SS Aufklärung-Abt., is also assigned Route C.

I Bat./SS-PGR 25 is assigned to advance Route A [with 277. Volks Grenidier Div].

In addition, the Heer 14th Werfer Regt. is temporarily attached to Hitlerjugend.

The division orders are to slice through the American lines at the Losheim Gap and proceed onward to the Meuse.

.....
Rank of those KG commanders:

(((
SS.12 PzDiv Hj ["Hitlerjugend"] --
Kraas (Hugo), SS-Standartenführer [Oberst] (Colonel)
)))

KG Müller (Thomas), SS-Standartenführer [Oberst] (Colonel) - 25.PG Rgt

KG Krause (Karl Wilhelm), SS-Obersturmbannführer [Oberstleutnant] (Lt Colonel) - 26.PG Rgt

KG Kuhlmann (Herbert), SS-Sturmbannführer (Major) - 12.PzRgt

KG Bremer (Gerhard), SS-Sturmbannführer - Recce Abt [btn]

........................
Any game has issues. And Btn v Btn can be rough.

I will continue at Matrix forum, since Steam is above my curmudgeon threshold.