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Discussions Rules and Guidelines
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Hey guys.
We appreciate and respect the sharing of differing viewpoints, especially on a topic as controversial as the theme of The Inquisitor, but please remember to keep the discussion civil and polite. Threats of any kind or insults will not be tolerated, and we will lock the thread if anything gets out of hand.
Have a good one
Dear Kaarl,
God bless you, and I hope this message finds you well.
I respect, and believe my brothers (in Christ) and I have acted within, the lines in your stance mentioned above.
Free speech is a God given right. However, freedom of speech does not equate to freedom of consequence. In these threads (https://steamcommunity.com/app/1880470/discussions/0/4041483920922768585/ and https://steamcommunity.com/app/1880470/discussions/0/5829413623759538655/) The user, who shall not be named, is using blatantly aggressive, vulgar and insulting rhetoric to fan the flames of Christian persecution. Christian persecution is a very real occurrence:
https://www.cato.org/commentary/christianity-worlds-most-persecuted-religion-confirms-new-report
https://www2.cbn.com/news/cwn/wake-staggering-global-christian-persecution-sparks-alarm-expert-warns-storm-clouds-are
It is your forum, and I respect that you have allowed me and my brothers (and sisters) to voice their concerns about your game with respect to our Lord and Saviour. However, this matter is no longer about the game alone. It is about the persecution and hate filled rhetoric directed at Christians from individuals that wish us harm.
This absolutely cannot continue. I beseech you, take a stand and do what is right.
Humbly and respectfully,
Otsirk.
This thread has become redundant and repetitive and has devolved into nonproductive discussion and contains quite a few insults and condescending remarks. Please refrain from repeating the same arguments and attacking each other, or we will lock the thread.
The Steam Forums are also not the right place for religious conversion attempts and I would kindly ask you to accept that you disagree on this topic.
Good tidings Joevonzombie,
In the context of healthy debate, what does your statement mean exactly? Does that mean Caesar, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Herodotus, Aristotle, Buddha etc are also fictional? Respectfully, since you have made this claim, the onus is on you to provide the proof for substantiating this. May, I kindly ask that you please do this so that we can have a productive conversation.
God bless,
Otsirk
There's actually documented evidence and physical evidence to back the existence of those legitimate historical figures. Multiple sources from different civilizations these folks came into contact with. With Jesus all you have is the Bible which a is book written by people who've never met christ and has been translated and translated again so poorly there's a unicorn in the damn thing now. If you can provide me a peer reviewed source that isn't the Bible, I'll concede.
Regarding the Writings, the supposed time frame of Jesus’s life, starting at year zero, was not a period big on communication. Without the ability to print books, not to mention having no phones or the Internet, it took a while for information to be dispersed. Despite limitations, a few decades following Jesus’s supposed lifetime, mentions of him started to crop up in the writings of Jewish and Roman historians, as well as in dozens of texts by Christians. Dr. Simon Gathercole, a New Testament scholar from the University of Cambridge, notes that the letters of the apostle Paul from about AD 50-60 are the earliest texts mentioning Jesus and the doctrines of Christianity. They also contained practical instructions for the growing number of Christians on how to live according to their faith.
The first non-Christian writer to talk about Jesus was the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus , who lived around AD 47-100. He referred to Christ in his history of Judaism “Jewish Antiquities” from AD 93. In the book, Jesus comes up twice – once in a curious passage about Jesus’s supposed brother James and in another paragraph that has since been questioned in its authenticity. Historians think it has been altered by Christians several centuries later who wanted to portray Jesus in a better light. Here is that passage coming from Antiquities 18:3:3: “There was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”
Roman historians Pliny and Tacitus also wrote about Jesus Christ about 20 years after Josephus’s book. The “Annals” by Tacitus from AD 115 mentioned the Roman prefect Pontius Pilate executing Jesus, alluding to crucifixion, and placed that event within the timeframe that agrees with Christian gospels. As you can also see in this excerpt, Tacitus was not a big fan of the Christians: “Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called “Chrestians” by the populace,” wrote Tacitus.” Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.”
Pliny the Younger, who was also governor in Asia Minor, wrote letters to Emperor Trajan around AD 112 describing Christians worshipping Jesus as a God:
“They (Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food, but of an ordinary and innocent kind ,” wrote Pliny in Epistles 10.96. The oldest known manuscript fragment of the New Testament, containing a portion of the Gospel of John. 2nd century AD.
As for eyewitness testimony, J. Warner Wallace does a brilliant job of dissecting it in light of the writings. In the spirit of healthy debate, here is the source: https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/can-the-gospels-be-defended-as-eyewitness-accounts/
As for physical evidence, there are a wealth of things that have been discovered, e.g. "The Upper Room" where Christ and His disciples met, and a very good chance of the location where Jesus was tried by Pontius Pilot. You can check out https://www.youtube.com/@ExpeditionBible if you wish. He approaches things from an archelogical perspective before applying what is written in the Bible. Do not take my word for it though. Go see for yourself, if you wish.
In conclusion, there is "actually documented evidence and physical evidence to back the existence of" our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
P.S Dr. Voddie Baucham does a very clinical and academic look at these historical documents and points out the Bible is the only one that has over 6000 foundational texts it is based off. Where as, for example, the writings of Homer has less than 10. If you prefer to look at secular sources rather, kindly refer to Dr. Bart D. Erhman. Alternatively, this website gives a very good explanation on textual integrity, however in the spirit of good debate, it is only proper that I inform you it is a Christian website: https://thebible.evangel.site/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA2eKtBhDcARIsAEGTG40fQ4vtoPOjikO4m7gvH2_HHbkwbmg4brC9Dx3da0CKquGKGSWM-8QaAj0TEALw_wcB
You took all the time to write all this out and you still failed the assignment. Learn what "peer reviewed" means in the academic sense please then get back to me. No one is who understands basic research methodology is going to take you seriously posting Christian sites and YouTube videos. I read the same Wikipedia article you did. Try not to be so obvious next time.
I wanted to edit my previous post to say thank you for being polite and civil, however, I am thankful that God kept me busy and prevented me from doing so, considering the less than approachable demeanor in the above reply.
Based on your original statement the following two points were extracted:
1) All media made for entertainment based on said historical figures is based on "actually documented evidence and physical evidence to back the existence of those legitimate historical figures"; however
2) In your estimation, the product we are currently discussing, is based on a fictional character, Jesus (I respectfully disagree with this) based of a non-historical text (again, I respectfully disagree) The Bible.
I have already addressed these two points in the previous post, and showed where the errors lay in points number one and two above. Now on to your concern for a"peer reviewed" Bible. Since no definition was determined, clarified or provided, the one given by Wiley Author Services will suffice, "Peer review is designed to assess the validity, quality and often the originality of articles for publication. Its ultimate purpose is to maintain the integrity of science by filtering out invalid or poor-quality articles".
Keeping the above definition in mind, provide me with a peer-reviewed copy of The Iliad, or The Odyssey, or Ceaser's De Bello and De Bello Civili (I cite these works by Homer and Caeser as examples of "proof" for these people having existed). You can't. It is not possible to provide a "peer reviewed" copy of any of these since the original text does not survive. What you can do is provide me with a "peer reviewed" copy of these works based on what I will discuss next:
What we do have are foundational texts based of eyewitnesses "seeing" the original documents and copying it (in case of the examples mentioned, there are less than 10 for EACH. Whereas the New Testament alone has over 6000. These figures can be found in the academic works of believers like Dr. Voddie Bauchman, and Dr. William Lane Craig, and secular Biblical scholars, such as, Dr. Bart D. Erhman). If this is the case, it is perplexing that The Iliad, or The Odyssey, or Ceaser's De Bello and De Bello Civili is accepted ad hoc but The Bible is not. In cases where we do not have eyewitness "seeing" and copying original texts, we are left with eyewitness testimony. In the aforementioned, the eyewitnesses record actual events they saw and lived through. There is an ample amount of this regarding the New Testament as mentioned in my original post.
An aside, those links provided were done so in good faith so that, as the adage goes, you can "Do your own research" and see for yourself. After all, secular society is fully committed to "Seeing is believing" Regrettably, this seems to have gone unnoticed and was met with a far from welcoming demeanor. Stated differently, “No research without action, no action without research”
- Kurt Lewin
To conclude, I do not suspect the current demeanor to change and thus do not see the point of continuing to engage. There seems to be a general lack of understanding in the world regarding basic debate etiquette or technique. As such, farewell joevonzombie.
Good day and God bless