Ice Age Biome Too Powerful?

[DaCosby]

I love the new biome and biotica but as a whole it just feels "stronger" than the other biomes. I am able to complete quests so easily with this biome even with not having unlocked everything yet. You just end up with so many points in everything. This is playing on Giant Trial difficulty.

Example: I was able to unlock the "Small World" era with 4 cities on the planet and without even thinking about it.

Also, it seems weird to give Ice Age "rugged" biotica even when you can not gain rugged in that biome. Some biotica (e.g. Siberian Pine) are just bad without rugged. There have been some bugs as well that I have been submitting.

[Ares]

I haven't played enough to make a complete judgement, but so far it seems to me like the DLC overall has just made the game easier, with or without the biome. Not quite sure exactly what it is, although the shrines are for sure adding a whole lot of extra resources. Might be the new leaders as well.

[The Other Alice]

Poet is great. +50% to projects as a freebie is incredible value.

[niddhoger]

You know, I did think my last few games were waaaaay too easy. I hadn't played in months and wound up getting tier 4 on cities with incomplete bonuses and plenty of open space...

I also aced the era 3 bonuses pretty much immediately. I had already scored 3 stars with 100 eon left to play and a few projects still open. Wasn't sure if I just got hella lucky or what. I got close to 1000 prosperity on that one.

Hadn't even placed a single emblem yet.

Did the diminishing returns for prosperity go down or something making it easier to hit higher #'s?

[DaCosby]

Originally posted by niddhoger:

Did the diminishing returns for prosperity go down or something making it easier to hit higher #'s?

It might be a combination of game changes that has caused the game to be easier. I'm not really sure without knowing the behind the scenes stuff. Maybe a dev can chime in on this.

I also think the "Extinct" mechanic is super strong. The free level-up just allows you to place the same biotica again for no downsides. Steppe Buffalo has been so good at 1star and it is only 3 biodiversity. Maybe have extinct biotica increase by 1 biodiversity if they are legacy can tone them down.

It is still an enjoyable experience and a vast majority of players will probably not even notice. For now I am just going to up the difficulty to titanic or true titanic.

[dande48]

I could do a 4 cities small world without thinking about it BEFORE the DLC. (stoat, stoat, stoat).

The "Ice Age" biome is a pain when you need science, but is almost a'' must when the leaders need power. I think most biomes can find themselves "overpowered", when you know the game and your objectives.

[Kotli]

Every biome can be stupidly overpowered if you know what you are doing and that goes double if you get lucky.

Oh as for things being easier I am pretty sure that in a big part because of the temples added in the Cataclysm Update that an extra building in a city giving us bonuses.

[capoeira45]

Originally posted by Kotli:

Every biome can be stupidly overpowered if you know what you are doing and that goes double if you get lucky.

Oh as for things being easier I am pretty sure that in a big part because of the temples added in the Cataclysm Update that an extra building in a city giving us bonuses.

Oh! That's insightful. The game feels a little easier to me, but it could be just because I've played so much. The temples are really powerful though.

[Teelo]

Why does the description of Ice Ace say it has almost no Tech when its actually very Tech heavy?

[Kotli]

Originally posted by Teelo:

Why does the description of Ice Ace say it has almost no Tech when its actually very Tech heavy?

I think it actually pretty balanced with slightly more food and gold than tech.

[AbbeyAdriaan]

Originally posted by niddhoger:

You know, I did think my last few games were waaaaay too easy. I hadn't played in months and wound up getting tier 4 on cities with incomplete bonuses and plenty of open space...

I also aced the era 3 bonuses pretty much immediately. I had already scored 3 stars with 100 eon left to play and a few projects still open. Wasn't sure if I just got hella lucky or what. I got close to 1000 prosperity on that one.

Hadn't even placed a single emblem yet.

Did the diminishing returns for prosperity go down or something making it easier to hit higher #'s?

I didn't change anything that isn't on the patch notes... Maybe it's some snowballing with temples/cultural exchanges?

[AbbeyAdriaan]

Originally posted by Teelo:

Why does the description of Ice Ace say it has almost no Tech when its actually very Tech heavy?

It only has Glacier for tech, right?

[Ice5643]

Originally posted by AbbeyAdriaan:

Originally posted by Teelo:

Why does the description of Ice Ace say it has almost no Tech when its actually very Tech heavy?

It only has Glacier for tech, right?

Tarpit and arsenic synergize super well with all the legacy biotica generated by extinct. Then there is a bunch of base science non-apex biotica (Wolemi Pine, Siberian Pine) and extinct biotica like slate and primal obsidian you can put down anywhere. I think that even tar pit struggles to get the really crazy numbers that cave bear or mammoth can get but its a super solid base.

I think this is a little bit the problem with the biome, it does everything a bit too well. Science may be the weakest of the stats, but you will find yourself getting 50-60 science prosperity using just a few slots, even if you are focusing on Wealth/Food and getting those into the 100-150 range. With the other biomes you could also get overpowered combos, but you usually had more of a dump stat (wealth in rainforest, science in ocean and savanah etc.). Or like in Taiga you were forced to choose between high food options and high ruggedness.

Combine that with lots of options for biodiversity and the addition of the temples and you get this sense the game is getting easier. I think the best solution would not necessarily be to go on a nerf spree, but maybe the age requirements need to be raised to compensate.

[niddhoger]

Originally posted by Ice5643:

Originally posted by AbbeyAdriaan:

It only has Glacier for tech, right?

Tarpit and arsenic synergize super well with all the legacy biotica generated by extinct. Then there is a bunch of base science non-apex biotica (Wolemi Pine, Siberian Pine) and extinct biotica like slate and primal obsidian you can put down anywhere. I think that even tar pit struggles to get the really crazy numbers that cave bear or mammoth can get but its a super solid base.

I think this is a little bit the problem with the biome, it does everything a bit too well. Science may be the weakest of the stats, but you will find yourself getting 50-60 science prosperity using just a few slots, even if you are focusing on Wealth/Food and getting those into the 100-150 range. With the other biomes you could also get overpowered combos, but you usually had more of a dump stat (wealth in rainforest, science in ocean and savanah etc.). Or like in Taiga you were forced to choose between high food options and high ruggedness.

Combine that with lots of options for biodiversity and the addition of the temples and you get this sense the game is getting easier. I think the best solution would not necessarily be to go on a nerf spree, but maybe the age requirements need to be raised to compensate.

Starting with the miner in the ice age biome... I went Iron Age -> Enlightenment -> Space Race. While I had some difficulty with other projects on other cities, I aced every Era requirement and easily sent beavers to the moon well before running out of Eon. Getting the 50 science requirement was pretty damn easy (I was at 66), and yes, with the Glacier.

But the real kicker is that I had something like 6+ empty spots around my miner's city from all the Era 2 extinct biotica I just never bothered replacing... largely because there was no need. My ice age city had already secured all the science it needed for that Era. And with my ocean botanist swimming in science (marine institute is great!), I just had to launch a 5th city and force out some science from them to top off the global science requirements (3 cities 20+ science, total 150 on planet). Forest inventor ez mode to clinch the era.

But again, juicing science out of the tundra was the least of my problems in that regard.

And then I found artichokes. That was a hilarious combination with the glacier, as the glacier adds evolve tags to a all plants, and the artichoke gives huge bonuses to all 'evolve' biotica. Not sure if this was a bug or not, but I could place the artichoke AFTER the glacier... does "True Ice Age" only lock plants at the moment of it's placement, but doesn't block plants you unlock after that?

However, I'd already hit 3-stars for the Tundra Space Race at that point, and was just screwing around to juice score... which eventually hit 300 prosperity from the ice age miner when I replaced all the empty extinct slots. Going all-in on evolve was obscenely strong. I never even drafted the tarpit with all the extinct biotica I had placed.

So yeah, Ice Age Stronk.

[Rexnos]

The guaranteed booster for extinct seems pretty oppressive. Tier 3 biotica on a booster are generally really rare and incredibly powerful, but extinct ice age guarantees them, even if they're off color.

[OwlsOp]

The cave bear definitely does need to be nerfed, if you try for it you can make it generate more wealth than the rest of the planet has resources combined.