HOTAS/HOSAS Support when?

[ZALIAS]

It still blows my mind how a Bohemia game launched without native joystick support, and while it "works", I'm tired of having to resort to 3rd party controller translation to make my flight setup mimic the limited capability of a freaking Xbox controller just to enjoy flying in Reforger.

While we're at it, let's get some head tracking support added back in too via TrackIR & Tobii...

[Onno]

Messaggio originale di Rick James Bish:

I guess it would be nice but it is definitely not a necessity. It is quite easy to fly with the KB and mouse. Not sure if I would want my HOTAS in its typical location while I am not flying, and moving it each time I get in and out of a heli would not be convenient.

It is not a flight simulator by any means so it would not utilize hardly any of the controls I have available. If they do add it, I will definitely give it a shot to see if its worth the hassle.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. Your take that it isn't a flight simulator is rather poor, considering that past Arma titles handling of aircraft was done quite well for something which wasn't a flight sim. I mean, they even incorporated real flight dynamics in the Helicopters DLC for arma 3. Support for HOTAS setups was a key part in that as well. And the current implementation of the KBM controls feels as if it is on rails. I have a lot of difficulty transitioning to it after years of being able to use my stick in Arma and in flight sims. It feels really unnatural

[-OrLoK- Слава Україн]

yeah, HOTAS support on the PC is needed, but as we know BI tend to add "extras" like this late in development traditionally, so i bet it *will* come but perhaps not until A4

[Rick James Bish]

Messaggio originale di Onno:

Messaggio originale di Rick James Bish:

I guess it would be nice but it is definitely not a necessity. It is quite easy to fly with the KB and mouse. Not sure if I would want my HOTAS in its typical location while I am not flying, and moving it each time I get in and out of a heli would not be convenient.

It is not a flight simulator by any means so it would not utilize hardly any of the controls I have available. If they do add it, I will definitely give it a shot to see if its worth the hassle.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. Your take that it isn't a flight simulator is rather poor, considering that past Arma titles handling of aircraft was done quite well for something which wasn't a flight sim. I mean, they even incorporated real flight dynamics in the Helicopters DLC for arma 3. Support for HOTAS setups was a key part in that as well. And the current implementation of the KBM controls feels as if it is on rails. I have a lot of difficulty transitioning to it after years of being able to use my stick in Arma and in flight sims. It feels really unnatural

I have to disagree based on actual experience. I have a friend who is a pilot with the Huntington Beach PD and flew the M520N NOTAR before they replaced them with MD530F. I always have him try these out, including ARMA 3. It is a simulation by definition, in which case any game is also a simulation, even if it is done so poorly. What he and I would consider a simulation will be on the edge emulation, and its just not happening in ARMA 3 or Reforger.

[Onno]

Messaggio originale di Rick James Bish:

Messaggio originale di Onno:

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. Your take that it isn't a flight simulator is rather poor, considering that past Arma titles handling of aircraft was done quite well for something which wasn't a flight sim. I mean, they even incorporated real flight dynamics in the Helicopters DLC for arma 3. Support for HOTAS setups was a key part in that as well. And the current implementation of the KBM controls feels as if it is on rails. I have a lot of difficulty transitioning to it after years of being able to use my stick in Arma and in flight sims. It feels really unnatural

I have to disagree based on actual experience. I have a friend who is a pilot with the Huntington Beach PD and flew the M520N NOTAR before they replaced them with MD530F. I always have him try these out, including ARMA 3. It is a simulation by definition, in which case any game is also a simulation, but what he and I would consider a simulator will be on the edge emulating, and its just not happening in ARMA 3 or Reforger.

So it doesn't meet your particular expectations to call it a sim by your standards. Good for you. In the end it doesn't matter if you call it a sim, it is about control and how that is mediated through the input scheme. Arma has had fairly detailed modelling for helicopters since the Helicopters DLC in Arma 3 and the use of a stick was a key element in getting the most out of that. I want that back.

[Rick James Bish]

Messaggio originale di Onno:

So it doesn't meet your particular expectations to call it a sim by your standards. Good for you. In the end it doesn't matter if you call it a sim, it is about control and how that is mediated through the input scheme. Arma has had fairly detailed modelling for helicopters since the Helicopters DLC in Arma 3 and the use of a stick was a key element in getting the most out of that. I want that back.

So I misunderstood your post. Your expectation of a simulation is that you are able to control the aircraft with a HOTAS. Just a difference of opinion. Just like my expectation of a HOTAS goes beyond a stick and throttle that have buttons.

I will likely use my flight stick and throttle. Currently focusing on the F16 in DCS so I'm used to having the flight stick off to the right side rather than centered and I would not have to deal with moving them out of the way when I transition back to ground.

[Onno]

Some degree of realism is also expected, but it need not be 100% accurate replication of aerodynamics. DCS is also not a sim in your book.

[Rick James Bish]

Messaggio originale di Onno:

Some degree of realism is also expected, but it need not be 100% accurate replication of aerodynamics. DCS is also not a sim in your book.

DCS is the nearest you can get that focuses on multiple specific models. I have a couple of friends that use MS Flight Simulator to stay in practice and stay brushed up on instrumentation. I used it to learn to fly a glider and applied that to actually flying a glider... with Space Shuttle Commander Rick Searfoss in there to guide me.

So yes, both DCS and MS Flight Simulator are the nearest you can get to simulations in my book as they strive to emulate, and do it well.

[Onno]

it doesn't matter what DCS does. This discussion is in the context of Arma. And Arma 3 was certainly is better than your average tactical shooting game which happens to incorporate choppers, like Squad for example. And unfortunately Arma 3 was way better than Reforger is shaping up to be. And the modelling and the controls go hand in hand. You can have the most crisp modeling in the world, but if you don't have the control scheme to match so you can make proper use of it, then it doesn't matter. Controls are thge mediating factor in how the flight modelling is perceived and also how successful one can be with a given flight model. The on rails experience is jn part due to how the collective response is totally botched, but also because an analog input is lacking. And the same is pretty much true for the stick. I have no clue what I'm doing because the mouse input is totally awkward for me because the 'twitchiness' that come with choppers is not there. I am too used to a stick at this point to go back.

As for the DCS experience, I have over 1000 hours on that sim. I know all about it. (and about its deficiencies)

[Rick James Bish]

Messaggio originale di Onno:

it doesn't matter what DCS does. This discussion is in the context of Arma.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here.

Your take that it isn't a flight simulator is rather poor

Last comment then I am stepping away from this conversation.

You disagreed with my comment that Reforger, the actual topic and only game mentioned in my post, is not a heli simulation by using your belief that ARMA 3 is?

I think its more accurate that your expectations of Reforger have not matched your ARMA 3 experience seeming like a heli simulation. That does not change what Reforger is... or is not ;)

[Onno]

You said it's not a simulation and that therefore it's not necessary to have the controls that a HOTAS would offer. I disagreed with that assessment when it came to helicopters, owing to the code base that Arma 3 uses to do its helicopter FM. Since Reforger is the preparation to Arma 4, the successor to Arma 3, I expected the helicopters to be similar. I still stand by this and nothing you have tried to add has changed my mind. (because most of it was besides the point)

[-OrLoK- Слава Україн]

they're all games.

I'd like to see full peripheral support like on Arma3, however, I don't expect it for Reforger.

[stburr91]

Messaggio originale di Onno:

You said it's not a simulation and that therefore it's not necessary to have the controls that a HOTAS would offer. I disagreed with that assessment when it came to helicopters, owing to the code base that Arma 3 uses to do its helicopter FM. Since Reforger is the preparation to Arma 4, the successor to Arma 3, I expected the helicopters to be similar. I still stand by this and nothing you have tried to add has changed my mind. (because most of it was besides the point)

Well, there is no plan to add the AFM to reforger, and we have no idea if it will be added to Arma 4.

BI has said that they will add HOTAS support, they just haven't said when.

You can use 3rd party software to get a HOTAS to work in reforger, search for it on youtube.

[Onno]

Messaggio originale di stburr91:

Messaggio originale di Onno:

You said it's not a simulation and that therefore it's not necessary to have the controls that a HOTAS would offer. I disagreed with that assessment when it came to helicopters, owing to the code base that Arma 3 uses to do its helicopter FM. Since Reforger is the preparation to Arma 4, the successor to Arma 3, I expected the helicopters to be similar. I still stand by this and nothing you have tried to add has changed my mind. (because most of it was besides the point)

Well, there is no plan to add the AFM to reforger, and we have no idea if it will be added to Arma 4.

BI has said that they will add HOTAS support, they just haven't said when.
tube.

I hope it will be sooner rather than later. Also, I hope this will include an analog collective. The current collective handling is just too awkward to use.

Messaggio originale di stburr91:

You can use 3rd party software to get a HOTAS to work in reforger, search for it on youtube.

I've seen a couple of videos explaining how to do this. I don't know of any such software which will which will work on linux.

[stburr91]

Messaggio originale di Onno:

Messaggio originale di stburr91:

Well, there is no plan to add the AFM to reforger, and we have no idea if it will be added to Arma 4.

BI has said that they will add HOTAS support, they just haven't said when.
tube.

I hope it will be sooner rather than later. Also, I hope this will include an analog collective. The current collective handling is just too awkward to use.

I highly doubt reforger will ever have an analog collective. I agree with you that the collective is very awkward, and is frankly, poorly implemented.

Based on where reforger is now, and the pace of development, I have serious doubts that even Arma 4 will have the AFM.

[G0rgonP0rnstar]

Messaggio originale di stburr91:

Messaggio originale di Onno:

I hope it will be sooner rather than later. Also, I hope this will include an analog collective. The current collective handling is just too awkward to use.

I highly doubt reforger will ever have an analog collective. I agree with you that the collective is very awkward, and is frankly, poorly implemented.

Based on where reforger is now, and the pace of development, I have serious doubts that even Arma 4 will have the AFM.

It was several years after the beta that they added the afm to Arma 3.