Game needs TAA and Sharpening Graphic options

[Gerarderloper]

To solve fullscreen aliasing problems atm you have the option to render above %100, enable FSAA (perf hungry), or enable FXAA/SMAA (oddly very limited effect).

It would be nice if BIS added in FULLSCREEN TAA (not just applied to some objects) and also a Sharpening (FSR SHAPENING) slider to combat the usual TAA blur side affects.

I think TAA is a decent method when combined with sharpening, as a cost to performance method of resolving Aliasing/The Jagged Edges.

Additionally BIS may like to look into implementing FSR2.0 sometime since it works on MOST vendor hardware and brands and is better then FSR1.0.

Obviously DLSS2.3 is better again but that is a NVIDIA exclusive feature and I'd suspect requires more effort to do then just FSR2.

Thank You...

[Gerarderloper]

TAA with Sharpening does produce better results then SMAA/FXAA methods.
I've tested this countless times and don't get ghosting (120hz 4k 40" screen).

But then again maybe it is a issue at 144hz I don't know.
Anyway here I'm asking for a Toggle not forced on which BIS hasn't done with AA in the past ever so I think we're safe from that.

Unfortunately until it becomes a thing for Reforger I can't really post any comparison results to basically say told you so. :)

[GT500]

Nguyên văn bởi The_Riddick Linux:

TAA with Sharpening does produce better results then SMAA/FXAA methods.
I've tested this countless times and don't get ghosting (120hz 4k 40" screen).

But then again maybe it is a issue at 144hz I don't know.

Most LCD monitors produce ghosting as well, and higher refresh rates (144 Hz and higher, mine is 170 Hz) combined with higher frame rates help to minimize it. OLED and Quantum Dot monitors don't produce ghosting at all, so you always get nice clear visuals. You do need to turn off motion blur and TAA to take advantage of that though, otherwise the lack of ghosting may not be noticeable.

That being said, even on 60 Hz monitors you can still check for ghosting in high motion scenes by taking a screenshot.

Here's a screenshot comparison of TAA in motion vs TAA stationary:
https://imgsli.com/Nzg3OTI

As you can see, the ghosting caused by TAA is generally perceived as motion blur. Most examples of moderate to slight motion look like this one.

Now UE5 has a new temporal upsampling tech that looks even worse. Here's an example of some moderate ghosting in that The Matrix Awakens demo:
https://i.vgy.me/emKurj.png

And here's some examples of severe ghosting in The Matrix Awakens demo:
https://i.vgy.me/eEzDJR.png
https://i.vgy.me/6WmT4i.png
https://i.vgy.me/cGdMpX.png
https://i.vgy.me/cJas77.png

Nguyên văn bởi The_Riddick Linux:

Unfortunately until it becomes a thing for Reforger I can't really post any comparison results to basically say told you so. :)

I've never known a game that looked better with TAA on, so I don't think you're going to get an "I told you so" moment if they add TAA to the game. Sharpening does help when there's no motion, but I've never seen a game where you could clear up the blur of TAA enough with sharpening to look as clear as without TAA or with just plain SMAA, and usually trying to do so causes obvious oversharpening.

Games with sharpening sliders like Ghost Recon Breakpoint and The Division 2 look much better with TAA disabled than they do with TAA and sharpening, and even better still with SMAA or CMAA2 injected with ReShade. Far Cry 6 has built-in CAS, and it also looks better without TAA and without FXAA even with the CAS on.

[Jolly]

Am i the only weirdo who prefers playing wihout Aliasing? It looks so sharp and crisp without 8)

[guy in funny spot]

A good TAA implementation can look way better than FXAA or really any other post processing anti aliasing. Just a shame so many devs do a really lazy job of it and just have it blur the screen worse than fxaa does (looking at you black desert online, god your TAA looks awful)

[xXMarT1naXx]

Nguyên văn bởi lamp:

A good TAA implementation can look way better than FXAA or really any other post processing anti aliasing. Just a shame so many devs do a really lazy job of it and just have it blur the screen worse than fxaa does (looking at you black desert online, god your TAA looks awful)

Can you give us an example of a "good TAA implementation"?

[DELTA]

you are right we need TAA.

a good TAA needs a sharpening filter but works much better then everything else what si in the game now thats fact !

To time is so much movement in the picture it horrible.
And if you set SMAA to High and AA to 8x ist better but the performance is worst.

At first we nee an "TAA" + "Sharpening Filter"
At Second we need "AMD FSR 2.0"
At Third we need "DLSS 2.x"

And DLSS uses TAA as well, why the its a bit stupid to use DLSS in a Comparison as argument against TAA.

[xXMarT1naXx]

Nguyên văn bởi NelyL:

Nguyên văn bởi MartinBFFan:

Can you give us an example of a "good TAA implementation"?

The last couple of AC games, CODs, UE4 games, HITMAN, Control etc.
basically most AAA games

They still have ghosting, they're still a blurry mess, they have all the issues TAA has ever had so I still don't see your point. It's just a flawed method from the start imo. It can look good on consoles or with monitor setups where you are far from the screen, sure, but when you're sitting just normally, rather close in front of the screen, it's unbearable even with sharpening as you start seeing artifacts and it will end up looking off.

[Gerarderloper]

I've known LOADS of games that benefited from TAA with some sharpening on top. SkyrimSE for example. There is War Thunder.

Now you can use FXAA or SMAA in these titles but you end up with lots of jaggy edges.
As for ghosting issue with TAA, I've only seen it for real in Daggerfall Unity edition where it makes things look allot worse.

In saying all that, I recently moved from a 60hz TN panel to a 120hz OLED so I probably can't see the problem anymore. And my TN Panel basically ghosted by anyway since it was crap in comparison.

The issue with FXAA and SMAA like methods is they don't target the entire rendered scene and thus you only end up with some objects being smoothed out.

In ARMA Reforger I get LOADS of jaggies still with SMAA on High, it seems to almost not be applied to some objects like fences, power-lines and buildings!

[GT500]

Nguyên văn bởi The_Riddick Linux:

I've known LOADS of games that benefited from TAA with some sharpening on top. SkyrimSE for example. There is War Thunder.

Skyrim SE and Fallout 4 both look noticeably better without Anti-Aliasing than they do with TAA or FXAA. Both games using heavy sharpening on their TAA to make it look better when there's no motion, but I always disable TAA in these games because TAA is always worse.

I can't say anything about Warthunder, because I haven't played it in years. I don't think it even had TAA the last time I played it.

Nguyên văn bởi The_Riddick Linux:

In saying all that, I recently moved from a 60hz TN panel to a 120hz OLED so I probably can't see the problem anymore. And my TN Panel basically ghosted by anyway since it was crap in comparison.

Turn off motion blur and it will make the ghosting from TAA more obvious. You will see the ghosting as motion blur (it's difficult to tell any real difference). If you try games with and without TAA while motion blur is turned off, you will notice a blurring in motion with TAA enabled and you won't see it with TAA disabled, except in UE4 games which seem to always have some minor blurring in motion even with motion blur and TAA turned off (horrible engine).

Nguyên văn bởi The_Riddick Linux:

The issue with FXAA and SMAA like methods is they don't target the entire rendered scene and thus you only end up with some objects being smoothed out.

In ARMA Reforger I get LOADS of jaggies still with SMAA on High, it seems to almost not be applied to some objects like fences, power-lines and buildings!

SMAA doesn't have perfect edge detection, and will miss certain edges entirely. Most post-processing Anti-Aliasing doesn't have as good of edge detection as older forms of Anti-Aliasing, and MSAA and SSAA are far superior but the performance cost is too great (especially since modern games use deferred rendering instead of forward rendering to allow for more lights in a scene). Deferred rendering is also prone to more aliasing than forward rendering from what I've read.

My favorite post-processing Anti-Aliasing is Intel's CMAA2, however I don't know of any games that implement it, so the only way to use it is with ReShade. Sadly the CMAA2 shader by Lord of Lunacy doesn't appear to be compatible with HDR mode in games, and it couldn't be implemented in ReShade the way Intel designed it, so it's probably not as good as real CMAA2 would be. From what I've seen Intel video cards will have a driver-level CMAA option, but we don't have those yet...

BTW: TAA screws with depth in videos games, and depth based effects in ReShade will suffer from jittering while TAA is in use. There's an interesting video on YouTube that showed depth debugging in ReShade, and demonstrated how TAA effects depth detection in ReShade, however I don't remember where to find it.

[Gerarderloper]

I don't use motion blur.

[Fyne]

i would rather have horrid aliasing rather than turn on TAA

[GT500]

Nguyên văn bởi NelyL:

Didn't realize that it was cool to hate on TAA the same way it is to hate on motion blur.
People and their fads

Considering they both have similar negatives, why wouldn't it be cool?

[BRAN]

DLSS support is a MUST at least for ARMA4.

[guy in funny spot]

All these people hating on TAA because they can see one pixel of ghosting when they zoom in on the screen in a side by side comparison. Are there games with really bad TAA, yes, but most of the time it's completely unnoticeable unless you're actively looking for it. People need to stop looking for a reason to ♥♥♥♥♥ about a perfectly good AA technique.

[aK]

Nguyên văn bởi ImNotFine:

i would rather have horrid aliasing rather than turn on TAA :jcdenton:

same, hate insurgency for this. TAA in a fast paced fps game lmfao.