Crossplay Is the End of Arma

[Taka]

Arma 4 will Never Ever be close to Arma 3 if they continue with Crossplay.

[Kribmeister]

Arma reforger runs on a fkin steamdeck at completely playable framerates. Arma 4 will run completely fine with whatever hardware current gen consoles run on. Stop being so dramatic.

If it's anything "holding back" games it's that so many PC gamers have potato PCs as graphics cards are crazy expensive not consoles.

[B1GMike]

Publicado originalmente por Based_On_Cringe #FixTF2:

Publicado originalmente por Taka:

Consoles just wont be able to handle a big detailed map, with every type of military weaponry you could think of and they all have workable and usable animations.
I understand they want more players and money but i think its a HUGE sacrifice.

PS5 has computing power of an average middle tier PC. But, since it is a console, and they all are the same, Bohemia can actually optimize Reforger specifically for PS5. Unlike on PCs, where it is very hard to optimize very complex software to run, at least somewhat good, on 10.000 different possible RIGs.
And, if you say that “RTX2070 and 16 GB of RAM is not enough to run Arma Reforger”… Than you admit that Reforger is extremely poorly optimized. And that it cannot run on the majority of gaming PCs. And sucks both for studio, because less people buy and play, and more people refund the game that doesnt work on their RIG.
So much for trying to dunk on console gamers who also want to play games.

I know for a fact Reforger runs fine on a 2070 with 8 gigs of ram, so I don't think that is the argument you think it is.

The more important issue with console hardware is the inability to upgrade it. PCs are constantly being upgraded to whatever is considered the current standard and the "middle-tier" is always improving while consoles simply can't keep up. That means devs will have to keep current console standards in mind with every update even years from now if they want it to keep working on current consoles.

Yes the PS5 is a solid console right now, but how will it stand up 5 years from now? How about 8 or 10 years? That's the average gap between console releases. For example, ARMA 3 released before both the PS4 and Xbox One. Could you imagine trying to run any sort of complex mission on a large ARMA 3 map on a PS3 or Xbox 360? I certainly can't. BI damn sure wouldn't have been able to add DLCs like Prairie Fire on those systems.

The problem isn't that consoles can't handle the game right now. It's that the devs will be locked into supporting the current consoles at the expense of not being able to utilize newer hardware.

[Rick James Bish]

Cro$$play is the direct reason they had to go with the network structure they chose. This means it was necessary to have the "backend" rather than hosting through Steam because Cro$$play will not work on Steam. Their network is not as established or secure as Steam, which is why they were so easily crippled recently. It took them weeks to recover and they still are not fully recovered. It is also likely it will not be the last time.

Cro$$play also means shortcuts had to be taken in the game to cater to the lower end consoles, different controls, storage limitations, etc..

Cro$$play was chosen for one reason.. money, and damn the consequences.

[RainJar]

I'm only worried it will fall into the same hole as Hell Let Loose, where the game is clearly more of a sim, but most people are trying to play it casually resulting in completely chaotic matches that become a slaughter once one side gets people who actually cooperate

[vanvan]

I really didn't want to agree, and it's definitely not all console players but the result is a community shifting from tactical teamwork milsim to free for all red vs blue shooter ported on an arma engine, and worse. They dilute everything good with the arma franchise with everything bad(nothing inherently wrong with them but we already have Warzone and Battlefield, we dont need our niche milsim experience to turn into another warzone/battlefield copy) affecting the general playstyle etc..

[Based_On_Cringe #FixTF2]

Publicado originalmente por B1GMike:

Publicado originalmente por Based_On_Cringe #FixTF2:

PS5 has computing power of an average middle tier PC. But, since it is a console, and they all are the same, Bohemia can actually optimize Reforger specifically for PS5. Unlike on PCs, where it is very hard to optimize very complex software to run, at least somewhat good, on 10.000 different possible RIGs.
And, if you say that “RTX2070 and 16 GB of RAM is not enough to run Arma Reforger”… Than you admit that Reforger is extremely poorly optimized. And that it cannot run on the majority of gaming PCs. And sucks both for studio, because less people buy and play, and more people refund the game that doesnt work on their RIG.
So much for trying to dunk on console gamers who also want to play games.

I know for a fact Reforger runs fine on a 2070 with 8 gigs of ram, so I don't think that is the argument you think it is.

The more important issue with console hardware is the inability to upgrade it. PCs are constantly being upgraded to whatever is considered the current standard and the "middle-tier" is always improving while consoles simply can't keep up. That means devs will have to keep current console standards in mind with every update even years from now if they want it to keep working on current consoles.

Yes the PS5 is a solid console right now, but how will it stand up 5 years from now? How about 8 or 10 years? That's the average gap between console releases. For example, ARMA 3 released before both the PS4 and Xbox One. Could you imagine trying to run any sort of complex mission on a large ARMA 3 map on a PS3 or Xbox 360? I certainly can't. BI damn sure wouldn't have been able to add DLCs like Prairie Fire on those systems.

The problem isn't that consoles can't handle the game right now. It's that the devs will be locked into supporting the current consoles at the expense of not being able to utilize newer hardware.

Counter Argument: if, in fact, Bohemia will focus on PS5, as a "ground level hardware" (not priority hardware), that is actually a good idea, because that means that PC system requirenments will stay pretty much the same for the next 5 to 6 years, and you will NOT need to constantly upgrade your PC. And other people mention that Reforger actually runs okay on Steam Deck. PS6 is supposed to come out in 2027 or 2028, and it is dumb to dump Arma Reforger for PS5 immediately, because at that point, there will be around 100.000.000 PS5 sold, which is a massive purchasing pool. So, PS5 Arma Reforger will be supported, I bet, 3 years after PS6 AT MINIMUM.

You can say that "Console limit game development", but they also lower PC system requirements.

[North_Dumpling]

Publicado originalmente por Sgt. Osiris:

Publicado originalmente por Roche Rider:

it takes time to adapt stop being so reactionary

The issue is having to optimize the game for consoles. Off the top of my head, Reforger does not have automatic weapon stabilization and lacks the body stances from Arma 3 because of "performance issues." Their own servers can only handle 50-player Everon games because they know the game is not stable with more players. (Or they're too cheap to pay for better official servers kind of like their ddos protection.)

Because of crossplay servers need to be connected to BI's backend to operate. There are ways around it, but it's not as simple as other games. There's also the removal of Steam Workshop support for their Workshop. While Steam Workshop has it's issues, their Workshop is terrible with stalled, failed, and slow downloads.

I hope I and this thread are wrong and they do not consolize the game further with Arma 4.

Lets not pretend Reforger was optimized before coming to consoles.
Game performs worse with every update while not being technically or visually advanced anyway.

[Sgt. Osiris]

Publicado originalmente por North_Dumpling:

Publicado originalmente por Sgt. Osiris:

The issue is having to optimize the game for consoles. Off the top of my head, Reforger does not have automatic weapon stabilization and lacks the body stances from Arma 3 because of "performance issues." Their own servers can only handle 50-player Everon games because they know the game is not stable with more players. (Or they're too cheap to pay for better official servers kind of like their ddos protection.)

Because of crossplay servers need to be connected to BI's backend to operate. There are ways around it, but it's not as simple as other games. There's also the removal of Steam Workshop support for their Workshop. While Steam Workshop has it's issues, their Workshop is terrible with stalled, failed, and slow downloads.

I hope I and this thread are wrong and they do not consolize the game further with Arma 4.

Lets not pretend Reforger was optimized before coming to consoles.
Game performs worse with every update while not being technically or visually advanced anyway.

I have noticed worse game performance on Experimental when destruction has been added into the mix. I hope that's them not worrying about optimization for Experimental and not a sign of things getting worse.

They will never be able to optimize the game though I still think focusing on consoles will make for a "worse" game as they have "try" to optimize for consoles. We've already seen removal of features that were in Arma 3 in the name of optimization. Arma 4 is supposed to come out in 2027 and I don't think the PS6 is coming out before then. That tells me that Arma 4 will be limited by what the current generation of consoles can do.

[North_Dumpling]

Publicado originalmente por Sgt. Osiris:

Publicado originalmente por North_Dumpling:

Lets not pretend Reforger was optimized before coming to consoles.
Game performs worse with every update while not being technically or visually advanced anyway.

They will never be able to optimize the game though I still think focusing on consoles will make for a "worse" game as they have "try" to optimize for consoles. We've already seen removal of features that were in Arma 3 in the name of optimization. Arma 4 is supposed to come out in 2027 and I don't think the PS6 is coming out before then. That tells me that Arma 4 will be limited by what the current generation of consoles can do.

Well ArmA 4 actually supposed to come out in 2022 before Klamacz admitted they decided to scale it down, call it Reforger and sell tech demo for 40 bucks.

But thats understandable, modern gamedev basically

[Silverkite]

Publicado originalmente por THE GLOOSE:

Crossplay was fine until they brought in PlayStation players. Now i can barely leave spawn without getting teamkilled for my kit or having my vehicle stolen

doesn't the game have private owned servers like past games? if so you can just ban the psn and the players, if not cause they somehow integrated epig online services, try blocking eos from your server

[Hademar]

So, I feel like I should comment here since there is oodles of hate for console players... And I agree with that sentiment.

I say that being a PS5 player. A lot of console players are lacking braincells, but not all of them.

I have about 200 hours on PS5 now and my usual experiences with fellow console players is a mixed bag but not all bad. There have been times where I would pull several console players aside, in game, and go over control schemes with them. I would tell them about their iron sights, how to adjust it, what it means to adjust it, ect.

This morning I had 2 players with me running supplies for several hours. We were going over vehicle maintenance, where to place Radio SIgnals and other buildings.

Many times they are very receptive to learning.

Now, this is just me but there have only been a handful of times that other players have helped me. I've gotten the odd hint here and there but nothing substantial.

I bought the game a few days after it released on PS5 and boy was I met with a rough crowd. Not many people were keen on PS5 players joining the scene, and that is understandable. Not only do you have the foul mouthed Xbox players muddying up communications with their arguments, you've doubled that pool with PS5 players.

However, I think the maturity of the player base between Consoles and PC is another discussion entirely.

The point I'm making is, teamwork isn't just about 'Tactics and Strategies'. Team work is about helping out the other guy on your team whether or not he's a console player. You aid your team by helping those you might believe need assistance. You don't need to be condescending, just ask if they're new or general questions about things you yourself might have missed when you first started.

I'm a mediocre player at best, but when I'm in game, I I treat it as if I'm in the work place... But i enjoy this job. I do what needs to be done, as best as I can and help those who 'may' need it as I go about my business.

Lead by example and every minuscule improvement adds to the collective.

EDIT: On the graphics and foliage textures, I think that is more circumstantial then some people think. Using binoculars when scouting fields and roads is just good practice. I can't think of too many times where I found this to be an issue because, when you play enough, you kind of pick up what you're 'looking' for when scanning bushes and treelines.

This isn't to say it doesn't give PC players an advantage, it absolutely does, I just think the discussion itself is overblown and ever so slightly cherry picked.

[Sgt. Osiris]

Publicado originalmente por Hademar:

The point I'm making is, teamwork isn't just about 'Tactics and Strategies'. Team work is about helping out the other guy on your team whether or not he's a console player. You aid your team by helping those you might believe need assistance. You don't need to be condescending, just ask if they're new or general questions about things you yourself might have missed when you first started.

I'm a mediocre player at best, but when I'm in game, I I treat it as if I'm in the work place... But i enjoy this job. I do what needs to be done, as best as I can and help those who 'may' need it as I go about my business.

Lead by example and every minuscule improvement adds to the collective.

PC players can't tell who a console player is unless they open the Player Menu. We can't see the little icon that differentiates what system the player is on like console players can. I don't know why we don't have it, but it's coming in the next update. My point is that PC players can't quickly discriminate like Xbox/PS players can.

I don't believe the issue is console players. The player quality is low, yes, but that would improve in time as people learn the game. The issue is people's attitudes which you see regardless of what system players are on.

I say please, thank you, sorry, and players take it as I'm being sarcastic or snarky. I know this because they make snarky comments afterwards. I tried to explain to someone how to unload supplies from their truck on a laggy server. He mistook what I said and he told me to suck his ♥♥♥♥. I don't say it in anything in an accusing or negative tone, but because everyone thinks no one is genuine nowadays everything is assumed to be negative. So no I don't offer help to others unless they ask. I will happily change my current plans to teach someone the game if they ask.

You have to be careful to not step on people's toes with how fragile these players are.

And before someone says, "You remember the negative, but not the positive," No, the majority of people playing the game have this mentality that "I bought the game I'm going to play however I want" and want to play it like Call of Duty. This is a team-based game, people have to run supplies, build up bases, and make sure their supply kits are not a detriment to the team. I've been mistaken for an AI NPC three times because they thought the AI was capable of building bases and I have a generic name. Lead by example doesn't mean anything when these people don't want to play Arma, they want Battlefield.

[Hademar]

Publicado originalmente por Sgt. Osiris:

Publicado originalmente por Hademar:

The point I'm making is, teamwork isn't just about 'Tactics and Strategies'. Team work is about helping out the other guy on your team whether or not he's a console player. You aid your team by helping those you might believe need assistance. You don't need to be condescending, just ask if they're new or general questions about things you yourself might have missed when you first started.

I'm a mediocre player at best, but when I'm in game, I I treat it as if I'm in the work place... But i enjoy this job. I do what needs to be done, as best as I can and help those who 'may' need it as I go about my business.

Lead by example and every minuscule improvement adds to the collective.

PC players can't tell who a console player is unless they open the Player Menu. We can't see the little icon that differentiates what system the player is on like console players can. I don't know why we don't have it, but it's coming in the next update. My point is that PC players can't quickly discriminate like Xbox/PS players can.

I don't believe the issue is console players. The player quality is low, yes, but that would improve in time as people learn the game. The issue is people's attitudes which you see regardless of what system players are on.

I say please, thank you, sorry, and players take it as I'm being sarcastic or snarky. I know this because they make snarky comments afterwards. I tried to explain to someone how to unload supplies from their truck on a laggy server. He mistook what I said and he told me to suck his ♥♥♥♥. I don't say it in anything in an accusing or negative tone, but because everyone thinks no one is genuine nowadays everything is assumed to be negative. So no I don't offer help to others unless they ask. I will happily change my current plans to teach someone the game if they ask.

You have to be careful to not step on people's toes with how fragile these players are.

And before someone says, "You remember the negative, but not the positive," No, the majority of people playing the game have this mentality that "I bought the game I'm going to play however I want" and want to play it like Call of Duty. This is a team-based game, people have to run supplies, build up bases, and make sure their supply kits are not a detriment to the team. I've been mistaken for an AI NPC three times because they thought the AI was capable of building bases and I have a generic name. Lead by example doesn't mean anything when these people don't want to play Arma, they want Battlefield.

And you're well within you're right to feel this way and play as you will. You're not wrong. Simple as that.

I'm not meaning to impose myself, I'm making a firm suggestion on I or others can do that 'might' help the player base, as a whole. Me personally, if I'm going to play this game, I mind as well make the best of it.

There's a lot of negative in the community, and I'm still relatively fresh to the community. However, my own brand of poison wouldn't help matters.

You're entrenched in your views with valid justifications.

When you're with other players, you could take charge if you and the others aren't sure on a plan. I've been doing it a bit in the servers and some familiar faces whom, can be a pill sometimes, are more inclined to take the lead.

So leading by example can take numerous forms that might not be intentional. Something to consider.

Dwelling on the faulty behaviour of others does you or anyone else no favors. It's unfortunate but that's why they're often kicked.

Food for thought if nothing else.

[DrakanFred]

Publicado originalmente por Roche Rider:

why

american sjw's are ruining Arma, like they do with anything they touch.

[sigina ✝]

I disagree