The farther i get, the more the game is losing me :/

[MaChao]

The spell card system just isn't working out...
In later parts of the game, it simply can't keep up with the amount of enemies the game throws at you, or how utterly bizarre their healthpools are.
This sadly turns an incredibly fun game into an absolute chore to play.

Around "The Fridge" (to keep it as spoiler free as possible), when the first green swarm enemy shows up the first time i considered dropping the game for good.
It's not challenging, it's just tedious and annoying.

As many, me included, already said during the first demo:
The spell card system really is this games worst enemy.
I love the variety in skills, and many of them are fantastic and synergize well with each other, but due to two layers of RNG, the system is a bigger hindrance than help.
Coupled with the fact that your main weapon simply doesn't keep up with enemies, later encounters often break down to fishing for MP and hoping cards pop up that can end the encounter.

Imho, there would have been several solutions to the MP situation:
-Have a general cooldown. Different cards put you on different cooldown times.
That way, you can't rapidfire you cards, but you always have a relyable arsenal, independent from drops and positioning.
-A basic "charge by damage dealt", removing the random drops entirely, making the whole system much more relyable and, again, less dependant on collecting stuff in the heat of battle, where patterns won't allow you to freely move about.

I really, really really tried to love The Knight Witch.
Well, it's why i'm writing all of this, because it technically is two of my favorite things.
But i'm just heartbroken that i just don't enjoy it as much as i did early to mid game.

[Arlyeon [Crit Hit]]

I think, honestly- it would have been nice to be able to unlock a 4th spell slot- especially as you start to glut up your deck a bit more.

[Truguers]

So sorry to hear that!
The card randomization is pretty core to the combat design, it's there to make you adapt and improvise and keep things interesting. We could have had a static ability system with cooldowns, of course, but we wanted to try something new and unique and we feel that it works nicely with the genre!

If your experience is being frustrating, though, maybe I can share some tips that might help:
One of them would be to customise your deck to include mostly weapon cards. You won't need to worry about which card you choose, since all of them will be powerups that upgrade your basic gun! You could also simply stack many low cost cards like shockwave and seeking swords that don't require too much timing and are good in every situation.
There's also a card called "Garbage collector" that costs 0 and absorbs all the mana drops around you.

In any case, if you are really frustrated with the card system... feel free to use cheats! We included cheats as an alternative to "easy, medium, hard" modes. They allow you to fine tune your experience. You might have more fun if you have infinite mana so you can go ballistic with the spells!

[MaChao]

Originally posted by Truguers:

snip

Thank you very much for your reply, but no, cheats won't solve the problem i'm having.
I'm a shmup player myself, i do love a good challenge, so "going ballistic" would actually make it worse :D

Like i mentioned, i'm not frustrated because it's difficult i'm frustrated because it's tedious.
I'm at a point where i burn through hearts just to skip rooms because of how long they take to clear.
Because of enemies that require spell cards (like the aforementioned swarm enemy), meaning i have to sit there, farm mana and burn cards until the one pops up that can defeat this enemy. And due to the fact that deck adjustment is checkpoint only, specialising decks isn't really an option either.
And sure, i could stack my deck full of "Hand Cannon"'s and unga bunga my way through the game. But i don't think i'd call that "fun" either.
I love your card selection. There are some brilliantly creative choices in there, so i'm trying to make the best of it...the game just won't really let me.

What broke the camels back for me was the contrast to early game.
Your base weapon was always a valid choice, with spell cards being "the better/faster option". They were a "nice to have" deal, which played well into the whole, unrelyable system. You took the advantages that presented themselves.

It was the scaling of enemy HP compared to the lack of scaling of your own power.
Now, dispatching anything other than flies with your base weapon takes ages, turning cards from a nice to have into a necessity. And for that, the system simpyl isn't relyable enough.
It also makes the attack level ups feel utterly pointless, as the damage increase is barely noticeable.

I might eventually try a pure magic build and see if this makes the mid to endgame more tolerable.
For the first playthrough, i went with a balanced one and sadly, it's not fun at all anymore.

[Arlyeon [Crit Hit]]

Play all cards for 0 + Every card played shoots Homing swords- is peak hilarity.

Sadly, as rad a combo as that sounds- it really doesn't measure up to just shooting people

[Traumaturgy]

Another topic about card system. I see clear arguments against it (random, unreliable, distracting) and no arguments for it, except 'some people like it'.

[MaChao]

Originally posted by Traumaturgy:

Another topic about card system. I see clear arguments against it (random, unreliable, distracting) and no arguments for it, except 'some people like it'.

Arguments for it are that the cards themselves, or rather the abilities, are genuinely great.
If you maybe played "Mega Man Battle Network", they feel a lot like that.
And they really do what they're supposed to: Mixing up your playstyle based on your hand rather than constantly relying on tried and true methods.

But i really wish it was implemented differently.
As mentioned above, i think a general cooldown system (not unlike the aforementioned Battle Network's Custom Gauge) would have done wonders to the systems relyability and pace.

Boss encounters usually are fine, as you are mainly peppering one target with shots, a.e generating enough mana pickups.
But random enemies, especially during ambushes, are just a chore to fight.
Too many, too bulky, and the random mana drops simpyl don't feed a stream of attacks fast enough to keep up the pace.

[TemmieNeko]

Originally posted by Truguers:

So sorry to hear that!
The card randomization is pretty core to the combat design, it's there to make you adapt and improvise and keep things interesting. We could have had a static ability system with cooldowns, of course, but we wanted to try something new and unique and we feel that it works nicely with the genre!

If your experience is being frustrating, though, maybe I can share some tips that might help:
One of them would be to customise your deck to include mostly weapon cards. You won't need to worry about which card you choose, since all of them will be powerups that upgrade your basic gun! You could also simply stack many low cost cards like shockwave and seeking swords that don't require too much timing and are good in every situation.
There's also a card called "Garbage collector" that costs 0 and absorbs all the mana drops around you.

In any case, if you are really frustrated with the card system... feel free to use cheats! We included cheats as an alternative to "easy, medium, hard" modes. They allow you to fine tune your experience. You might have more fun if you have infinite mana so you can go ballistic with the spells!

i agree with OP here, it's very simialr to One Step From Eden, where youre building a larger deck to rapdily burn through them all, and hope to god you're aiming int he right spot for the card to have an effect.
I feel liekwith randomizing the spell cards here, i often just spam the buttons, hoping for somehting good - or i just don't use em.

also adding to this ( and is present int he demo ) the boss you fight as Robyn showcases an issue sas well, YOUR own bullets are so bright and distracting sometimes, it often makes oyu lose any ability to parse what is on screen.

and I have only beatn a single boss as Rayne -
also one real issue I have here - Why did you introduce a dash dodge move, and then decide to not give it to Rayne?
The move made thebullet hell slightly manageable, but it's borderline insane to have someone do this introducition + a boss fight without a dodge, a core mechanic you introduce in the demo.

IM an offical Knight witch now, and i literally still don't have a basic dodge.

that's a real problem

[MaChao]

Originally posted by TemmieNeko:

also one real issue I have here - Why did you introduce a dash dodge move, and then decide to not give it to Rayne?
The move made thebullet hell slightly manageable, but it's borderline insane to have someone do this introducition + a boss fight without a dodge, a core mechanic you introduce in the demo.

IM an offical Knight witch now, and i literally still don't have a basic dodge.

that's a real problem

I said it in a different thread already:
Imho, it would have been better to give the player a basic dodge move from the start that just allows them to move quickly and then upgrade it to the teleport that phases through barriers and bullets later on.
It would have made the early game much smoother.

[TemmieNeko]

Originally posted by MaChao:

Originally posted by TemmieNeko:

also one real issue I have here - Why did you introduce a dash dodge move, and then decide to not give it to Rayne?
The move made thebullet hell slightly manageable, but it's borderline insane to have someone do this introducition + a boss fight without a dodge, a core mechanic you introduce in the demo.

IM an offical Knight witch now, and i literally still don't have a basic dodge.

that's a real problem

I said it in a different thread already:
Imho, it would have been better to give the player a basic dodge move from the start that just allows them to move quickly and then upgrade it to the teleport that phases through barriers and bullets later on.
It would have made the early game much smoother.

yeah , I think that would work, or they could push the dash through stuff obstacles to way sooner, which is what 99.99% of games that allow dodging through hazards,
ETG is a great example of this, they MAKE you dodge through bullets to show you that you can

[Bozeman]

Another voice for "the cards are kinda pointless" here. There's a lot of variety, which is awesome, but there's way too many drawbacks to this system to make it worth the effort in using them regularly. A few things I've noticed:

-Not enough mana/mana drops; I end up not being able to use cards for long stretches, and they become pointless unless I need a big hit (which isn't often)

-The RNG system for the cards feels like it's been bolted on late in development. I often don't have time to look down and figure out which card is randomly attached to which button, in fact, it's incredibly annoying to have to do so, especially given they're only (sometimes vague) icons. I understand that you wanted 'chaos' in the gameplay design to be a thing, but it's just not very fun in this instance, and there's not enough mana to spam them anyways, so what's the point? They feel like something put in to add more variety to the gameplay without fully thinking how they would fit in.

I agree with earlier posters that a cooldown system instead of mana might help, but with only 3 card buttons, I'm not really sure if it would even do anything. I appreciate the trying something different, but it kind of feels like cards were chosen because it's a 'popular' game mechanic right now. If you're telling your players to 'choose only the cards that upgrade the basic gun' in a serious tone, it might be time to re-examine this mechanic. (Also, telling people to use cheats because of gameplay frustration...ergh....)

-Also fully agree with the poster above talking about bullet visibility. As someone who is red/green color deficient, I'm not sure I will be able to get very far in the game without accessibility options. I finally gave up last night after the umpteenth death, as I just can't see the things that are hitting me, and my own bullets just add way too much junk on top of all of the clutter that's already there. This game is gorgeous, but sometimes all that detail and brightness get in the way of gameplay as well.

[Mumrah]

Originally posted by Traumaturgy:

Another topic about card system. I see clear arguments against it (random, unreliable, distracting) and no arguments for it, except 'some people like it'.

I agree that the randomization is a distraction where you're mostly concentrating on dodging and dealing damage with your main attack.

I said in my feedback thread that the Card UI is not good and makes it even worse to use them and play the game. I suggested that there should be mini cards floating next to Rayne and show the amount of mana above her head. I feel this will keep the players eyes on the action and quickly be able to see what cards are queued up, even if they are random.

I honestly would rather have a loadout of 3 cards with a fixed location on which button is used to activate them.

Or have card categories: Ranged attack, melee attack, and character power. Each category would correspond to a button. One then can add a couple of cards in each category and they can fill in the order the player put the cards in. I feel with some consistency the player will still need to adapt on some level with the use of the cards.

The dev argument that they want it random so the player can adapt is more distracting and confusing where the player will forgo using the cards entirely. Coupled with the current UI, the cards are not good at all. If players force themselves to use cards, they will most likely just push buttons and hope for the best, or just choose cards that do essentially the same thing to have some form of consistency.

[TemmieNeko]

Originally posted by Mumrah:

Originally posted by Traumaturgy:

Another topic about card system. I see clear arguments against it (random, unreliable, distracting) and no arguments for it, except 'some people like it'.

I agree that the randomization is a distraction where you're mostly concentrating on dodging and dealing damage with your main attack.

I said in my feedback thread that the Card UI is not good and makes it even worse to use them and play the game. I suggested that there should be mini cards floating next to Rayne and show the amount of mana above her head. I feel this will keep the players eyes on the action and quickly be able to see what cards are queued up, even if they are random.

I honestly would rather have a loadout of 3 cards with a fixed location on which button is used to activate them.

Or have card categories: Ranged attack, melee attack, and character power. Each category would correspond to a button. One then can add a couple of cards in each category and they can fill in the order the player put the cards in. I feel with some consistency the player will still need to adapt on some level with the use of the cards.

The dev argument that they want it random so the player can adapt is more distracting and confusing where the player will forgo using the cards entirely. Coupled with the current UI, the cards are not good at all. If players force themselves to use cards, they will most likely just push buttons and hope for the best, or just choose cards that do essentially the same thing to have some form of consistency.

just as you said have the spells near her head, I thought about how another game does that to visualize cooldowns for your attacks, and it works amazingly. since you always focus on the character, you will see what spells are up next.
however, there's a LOT of spells, and i don't thik a simple icon can cover all that's goin on


edit - Why do I feel liek these are conversaitons the dev team had with the design team and coders
lol

[LadyRamkin]

I just got to the first ambush after you get the cat.
And i just can't be bothered anymore.
Game isn't actually fun.

The arenas are too cramped, with too many gimmicks, with too much visual clutter.
Your offensive options ALL suck.
Your defence doesn't exist.

I don't really play a lot of bullet hells, but I really liked Furi and I assumed this would be as satisfying.
It's not.

It literally only feels like I can move past encounters if I get good RNG.

And it's not even a good Metroidvania.
Unless I am secretly still in the tutorial or something.
Aside from secrets, progression is entirely linear, and you only get one traversal option, which is the terribly short dash.

I bought it twice so the devs can't complain.
But damn... this had so much potential.

[Arlyeon [Crit Hit]]

I think out of everything that irked me- the lack of efficient fast travel was probably the biggest one. And don't give me the 'You can fast travel areas'. That's pretty poor consolation when you're backtracking to the start of the game in search of secrets. Or back again, when you don't have the option of recalling from beacons.

[soiberi1]

Originally posted by Truguers:

So sorry to hear that!
The card randomization is pretty core to the combat design, it's there to make you adapt and improvise and keep things interesting. We could have had a static ability system with cooldowns, of course, but we wanted to try something new and unique and we feel that it works nicely with the genre!

If your experience is being frustrating, though, maybe I can share some tips that might help:
One of them would be to customise your deck to include mostly weapon cards. You won't need to worry about which card you choose, since all of them will be powerups that upgrade your basic gun! You could also simply stack many low cost cards like shockwave and seeking swords that don't require too much timing and are good in every situation.
There's also a card called "Garbage collector" that costs 0 and absorbs all the mana drops around you.

In any case, if you are really frustrated with the card system... feel free to use cheats! We included cheats as an alternative to "easy, medium, hard" modes. They allow you to fine tune your experience. You might have more fun if you have infinite mana so you can go ballistic with the spells!

Btw dev,. The visual is also very bad. So you put 1 2 3 for spell cards and then you put them the number for their power. MAKING THEM VERY CONFUSING. If player like me play alot of FPS and only looking at them 1st glance. I thought they are FOR EXAMPLE

I see a NUMBER 3. But instead they are power 3 not number 3. They are Number 1 , power 3. Making me press 3 instead of 1

Also the 1 2 3 IS VERY VERY BAAD ,because I have to move WASD movement instead of using mouse. Making presssing WASD+ 123 Combo is extremely awkward. And the CARD SYSTEM SUCKS. BEcause it is TOO RNG. No synergy