People crying over DRM for no reason

[Rōnin]

It's not like the game is demanding enough where the small margins of performance lost to DRM will make a difference. Literally crying for no reason other than the fact they wouldn't be able to pirate the game.

[󠀡󠀡]

Nguyên văn bởi Rōnin:

the fact they wouldn't be able to pirate the game.

Hmm...[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com]

[I like Chop Goblins.]

There's plenty of material you can read to understand why people take principled positions against DRM. No need to troll with a strawman:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/opposing-drm.en.html

[Cyber Moduled]

Nobody's crying over a DRM layer when there are two emulator (soon to be three once the Switch ISOs of this game inevitably release a few days before the actual game's release) options that have been available for years to play EO on.

People are just annoyed at its existence because it's another modern day inconvenience that doesn't do much when most consumers lack the knowledge on what a "torrent" or "repack" is to begin with thanks to Steam being extremely convenient for digital games as a service. I'm willing to imagine there would've been some EO fans who wanted to buy these versions despite the price point but the extra DRM on decade old DS games is being interpreted as understandably stupid.

[Kinshorin]

This collection has a Switch version. Any concerns over piracy are pointless at that point since Switch emulation and piracy already happens, not to mention people HAVE been pirating these games for years via the original DS versions.
Adding DRM to the PC version is the most pointless and tone deaf choice imaginable and is just the crap cherry on top of the awful $80 price tag.

[[Z.E.] Gri-49]

The problem ain't the potential performance issue, it's the possibility of losing access to a game you should own. I know you don't own it 100% when buying digital version, but Denuvo take this to another level. It requires connection to the Denuvo server, which if they are down for any reason, you cannot play your game that you have bought as a legit user. There's also a part of the EULA that says "may limit the number of installation", meaning there's an additional limitation that isn't there usually on digital game. These limitation are just unnecessary and can potentially screw legit user of the game. The worst for these games in particular: the games are already hacked (not these version in particular, but the originals are).

So, in short, Sega-Atlus are paying money for unnecessary and restrictive DRM protection that can screw-up legit user of the game. This is what people are upset about.

[Sammy]

I'm no fan of DRM, but I don't think it's ever been conclusively proven that Denuvo impacts performance.

[Melodia]

Nguyên văn bởi Sammy:

I'm no fan of DRM, but I don't think it's ever been conclusively proven that Denuvo impacts performance.

So here's what I've gathered from looking at a lot of things and not just parroting sensational YouTubers.

Effectively Denuvo has to be programmed in by the developers. It's like just something they drop and it works, it's integrated into the exe (and it's well known that Denuvo inflates the size of an exe by a LOT, though it's still pretty small compared to the size of most games).
So what happens is that -- like any PC program, it can cause issues. NOT inherently "because denuvo" but simply that it's not optimized correctly.
It can be furhter exacerbated when other DRM comes into play -- such as what happened with Resident Evil Village that anti-Denuvo pundits just love to bring up.

In other words, it's not that Denuvo impacts performance, specifically by existing. Just that devs need to actually implement it correctly, just like anything else they need to do when programming a video game to work correctly.

[Toyosatomimi no Miko]

Nguyên văn bởi Melodia:

Nguyên văn bởi Sammy:

I'm no fan of DRM, but I don't think it's ever been conclusively proven that Denuvo impacts performance.

So here's what I've gathered from looking at a lot of things and not just parroting sensational YouTubers.

Effectively Denuvo has to be programmed in by the developers. It's like just something they drop and it works, it's integrated into the exe (and it's well known that Denuvo inflates the size of an exe by a LOT, though it's still pretty small compared to the size of most games).
So what happens is that -- like any PC program, it can cause issues. NOT inherently "because denuvo" but simply that it's not optimized correctly.
It can be furhter exacerbated when other DRM comes into play -- such as what happened with Resident Evil Village that anti-Denuvo pundits just love to bring up.

In other words, it's not that Denuvo impacts performance, specifically by existing. Just that devs need to actually implement it correctly, just like anything else they need to do when programming a video game to work correctly.

If I put feces in some soup i was serving you, but the soup was made from high quality ingredients still and it didn't affect the taste, would you still eat the soup?

Performance isn't the main issue my guy, it's the fact that I don't own my own damn game and can get locked out of it through no fault of my own despite paying for the product while Pirate McCopy over there gets to play the damn game any time, anywhere, and can install it as many times as he wants on as many different PCs as he wants, all without having to pay for it.

[Melodia]

Nguyên văn bởi Toyosatomimi no Miko:

It's the fact that I don't own my own damn game

DRM does not change your ownership of a game

Nguyên văn bởi Toyosatomimi no Miko:

and can get locked out of it through no fault of my own

True. And absolutely the biggest issue with Denuvo.

Nguyên văn bởi Toyosatomimi no Miko:

despite paying for the product while Pirate McCopy over there gets to play the damn game any time, anywhere, and can install it as many times as he wants on as many different PCs as he wants, all without having to pay for it.

Good luck finding a cracked version of this game while it still has Denuvo. It's probably not going to happen, at least not for many months (now the Switch version might work on emulator but that comes with its own potential issues)

[[Z.E.] Gri-49]

Quick-post

Copied from EO3's EULA (search for Denuvo using Ctrl+F)

"the Denuvo Anti-Tamper Technology may limit the number of installations of the Product". That's one limitation of ownership that very easy to prove ("may" means the number of installation could be 1,2,3,5, infinite. No way to know until it's too late)

Also, the DS versions are already cracked. If the only difference is Auto-Map + Running, I don't think people looking to get the game free will care.

[Melodia]

Nguyên văn bởi Z.E. Gri-49:

"the Denuvo Anti-Tamper Technology may limit the number of installations of the Product". That's one limitation of ownership that very easy to prove ("may" means the number of installation could be 1,2,3,5, infinite. No way to know until it's too late)

Yes, and? Just because they program something a certain way doesn't change your rights.
Here's a good thread that discusses a lot of the nuance. https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/vw4s1a/do_you_own_your_pc_games/

In general just because a company CAN do something to restrict you doesn't mean it's even legal, and even if it is it doesn't change they fact that they could with other methods. As noted, even physical copies of games since the PS3 eta could theoretically be rendered unplayable depending on if they need extra downloads to work or not.

[[Z.E.] Gri-49]

Even if it isn't "legal", it is clearly written they can do it, and if they do it, then you have to waste time and money taking legal measures against the company for a 40$ game. Who would do that? A jobless rich who has nothing better to do? (Update: Yeah, forget about that part. This could happen with or without EULA)

Besides, my main point here is that digital game have been doing fine way before Denuvo existed. People got their game easily, publishers got their money. Downloading cracked games always comes with a security risk, which I am sure is enough to prevent lots of People from downloading pirated games (none of my friends want to take that kind of risks). Also, Steam already act as a DRM (you can't download from Steam without Steam saying you bought the game), so Denuvo DRM is redundant and useless.

Denuvo Anti-Tamper wouldn't be a problem if it only prevent crack of the game, without restricting the user to install/play the game however they want (requirements about the internet connection are all over the place. Some says 1st time only, some says every time it launch, others says it is at an interval. And that "limited number of installation" is odd because on Denuvo's web site, they say they don't limit the number of installation: "Anti-Tamper is completely transparent to legitimate game buyers and does not in any way impose activation limits, install drivers, or require a gamer to be “always on.” https://irdeto.com/denuvo/anti-tamper/ ).

[󠀡󠀡]

Nguyên văn bởi Z.E. Gri-49:

"Anti-Tamper is completely transparent to legitimate game buyers and does not in any way impose activation limits, install drivers, or require a gamer to be “always on.” https://irdeto.com/denuvo/anti-tamper/ ).

This is hilarious considering Denuvo does have activation limits and installs kernel-mode drivers.

Basically anything wanting to give itself kernel access on your computer should be a big no-no by default.

[[Z.E.] Gri-49]

Nguyên văn bởi .:

Nguyên văn bởi Z.E. Gri-49:

"Anti-Tamper is completely transparent to legitimate game buyers and does not in any way impose activation limits, install drivers, or require a gamer to be “always on.” https://irdeto.com/denuvo/anti-tamper/ ).

This is hilarious considering Denuvo does have activation limits and installs kernel-mode drivers.

Basically anything wanting to give itself kernel access on your computer should be a big no-no by default.

Apparently, it is Denuvo Anti-Cheat, not Denuvo Anti-Tamper, that does that.

[󠀡󠀡]

Nguyên văn bởi Z.E. Gri-49:

Nguyên văn bởi .:

This is hilarious considering Denuvo does have activation limits and installs kernel-mode drivers.

Basically anything wanting to give itself kernel access on your computer should be a big no-no by default.

Apparently, it is Denuvo Anti-Cheat, not Denuvo Anti-Tamper, that does that.

Denuvo Anti-Tamper can absolutely do activation limits, check the Steam store page for Monster Hunter Rise for exemple.