Let's try to be constructive

[Card N'FoRcE]

Ok I know everyone is (legitimately) angry with what is going on, but i want to try and honestly give reasons to the complaints, hoping Atlus would actually listen to them.

Some updates after the Atlus's stream: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1868180/discussions/0/3763356482604822143/#c3763356482606079240

The UI Font: I hope the font used in the trailer is a placeholder. The old localization team chose a very specific serif font (Neuton) to match the storytelling tone of the game. Using a sans serif font not only is a bad idea for that specific reason, but it's also making the game look like a cheap mobile knockoff. The trailer for the Japanese edition doesn't seem to include this change, which makes it even more confusing and frustrating.

The Quality of Life improvements: there needs to be more clarity about what has been done. Etrian Odyssey I and II are notorious for having balance issues and a somewhat clunky UI, has something been done about those? Have some features been backported from the 3DS games, like fast walking and the skilltrees (instead of the old skill lists)?

The mapping: it's not really clear in the trailer, so I'll just say that I hope controller-only play has been accounted for, because playing on a PC doesn't mean using only mouse and keyboard. This would apply also for Switch players playing in docked mode. My first though was that automapping would need to also map for an extra two squares of floors and walls around you to make the experience less frustrating.

Denuvo: I mean, it's your right to include it if you really want to, but you have to understand that this is a very niche franchise. I believe a significant part of the playerbase, when compared to other IPs like Persona, is tech-savvy enough to hate Denuvo's inclusion to the point of actually refusing to buy the games altogether.

The pricing: leaving aside the insane price point, the main problem is actually the bundle format. The bundle only makes it reasonable for long time fans to buy the three games because they know what they're getting into, but it makes incredibly hard to recommend buying the first game to a newcomer. If a newcomer buys only the first game and decides to later buy the other two, the bundle discount will apply only to the other two games, basically wasting 13,30€/$. How am i supposed to convince any friend into buying this?

The lack of 3D models: this would not be a relevant problem if not for the price. Looking at the situation i have the impression that the reason we don't have the 3D models from the 3DS games is that Etrian Odyssey III didn't get the Untold treeatment, so there's no models to recycle. Again, this would not be a problem if the price was fair, but if you're asking for 40$/€ you can at least try and not have two games' worth of models go to waste and actually add what's needed for Etrian Odyssey III.

In this sea of problems at least there seems to be one good news: multilanguage support. I noticed this in the store page for all three games and it's actually a pretty big improvement if true.

For a comparison, just look at Yggdra Union on Steam. It's a port of a 2006 GBA/PSP game that launched in Early Access two days ago at a way more reasonable price (19.50€). The intention behind the Early Access is to have some time to listen to player feedback and fix bugs. Also the description details what features are being added compared to the older console releases, giving older fans reasons to consider buying it. This looks way more reasonable and it didn't seem to me that people were complaing about the price, or in general showing such a huge backlash like what's happening here.

I've been playing these games since 2008, I don't really want to sour my love for the franchise by actually wishing for it to die instead of seeing it go down this path. I'm hoping in the slim chance someone involved notices we're not just whining because we're spoiled brats. I believe old time fans just want a fair price for a product that they like without it being unreasonably messed up.

Sorry for the long post, i usually never write anything but I needed to vent a bit and felt this time was more important than ever for me.

[Melodia]

And I'll be contructive and just comment: Great post, well said.

[Dotty (Deity)]

Very good points.

The pricing is mainly the thing that gets me, I've bought the first 2 ds games back then and it's pretty much 1 for 1. But paying the olden retail price today for a DS version when the 3DS version would have at least felt a little better considering that it came with the added story mode for the first 2 games would have felt a little better.

Not saying I'd have enjoyed paying 40 usd for untold HD, but 24.99 usd would feel around the better price range for an EO:U1, EO:U2, and maybe 14-19.99 for EO3. (Never got EO3 so I can't say if it's upper or lower.)

Edit: Also now thinking about. = o More recently games like these have been sold with their sequels (and prequels/sidestories) all together in a Single game format where you can select which to play. IE: Castlevania (Advance, and Anniversary), Megaman (X leg, Z leg, and Battle), DMC, Halo, Uncharted, and more. So that honestly even more raises a red flag for me on the price and way this was handled.

Although when the game officially releases we'll be better able to gauge the appropriate cost to effort value. I'm currently only going on just the nintendo direct info and the store page and cannot see a reason for the price point.

[Shylaar]

Your intentions are good OP but Atlus have made it quite clear over the years that they really don't give a damn about listening to what the PC userbase actually wants. They will give us scraps and they will expect us to buy it, and that's all Atlus cares to do here.

[Card N'FoRcE]

I've tried to watch the 2 hours stream Atlus made for the remasters. Link of the stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHmzgqvSxGk
I can only undestand very basic amounts of japanese, but from what they've shown i can provide some more information.

As seen in the trailer, the fonts for the japanese version are definitely the same used in the 3DS games. Everything looks fine there.

Character creation has no color customization. They didn't mention it in the trailer and i believe noone expected the feature, but i think it's still worth mentioning.

The bestiary seems to be updated, showing the list of weaknesses/resistances, as in newer games. From the screen they showed, it looks like it can be recalled in battle.

The map tools have been updated with all the new icons added in the newer games, maybe even more because i didn't recognise a few icons. The mapping seems to work with both controller and touch inputs, they even include a stylus in the japanese physical release. There is an option for right and left handers. There seem to be an option related to the cursor position, but i wasn't able to understand what it is. Mapping with the controller doesn't look very smooth, but I wouldn't hold that against them.

The rest of the option menu doesn't differ much from the 3DS games.

The skill list has been updated to some kind of tree. It's different from the 3DS games, but i think it's because they kept the skill dependencies closer to the original games. Some weird usage of arrows here and there, but definitely an improvement. Can't say if they've been rebalanced or backported from Untold, but at this point it seems likely.

I didn't see them fast walk in the stream, but i wasn't focusing on it so there's a small chance i missed it if they did.

Unfortunately B01F from the first game is exactly the same in Untold, so i can't say if they're using the old maps or the ones from Untold. It's the only floor they've shown.

In the end, it looks like there are indeed some more updates than it seemed initially.

Originally posted by Shylaar:

Your intentions are good OP but Atlus have made it quite clear over the years that they really don't give a damn about listening to what the PC userbase actually wants. They will give us scraps and they will expect us to buy it, and that's all Atlus cares to do here.

Yeah i know. The main reason i posted is to be at ease with myself. If I don't like a product I just won't buy it and I still have all the original releases on my cartridges, but I'm sad mostly because I don't even feel good recommending the games to my friends, unless they get a big discount.

[RegalStar]

To me, the biggest thing I'm getting out of this release is that Atlus hasn't just shelved the franchise as the past years of radio silence have suggested. This means I can actually look forward to potential releases of EO6 and 3U with some hope again.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Card N'FoRcE:

. Mapping with the controller doesn't look very smooth, but I wouldn't hold that against them..

I've played these a bit on emulator (maybe 10 hours total between the whole series) and using a controller/mouse hybrid play style works pretty well.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by RegalStar:

To me, the biggest thing I'm getting out of this release is that Atlus hasn't just shelved the franchise as the past years of radio silence have suggested. This means I can actually look forward to potential releases of EO6 and 3U with some hope again.

Well, Nexus is effectively EO6....

But yeah, I recently played Labirynth of Refrain and it REALLY scratched my itch for the genre so I was so happy to see these. I'd only really played about half of EO IV and maybe a few hours of EOU1 back in the day and while sure emulators are a thing, these days I pretty much stick to playing officially on Steam.

[tcassat]

Originally posted by Card N'FoRcE:

Denuvo: I mean, it's your right to include it if you really want to, but you have to understand that this is a very niche franchise.

I think the point is precisely to try to exploit the niche of fans who are willing to pay very high prices for a product whose real value (i.e. the average value the consumer is willing to pay) is almost zero.

Denuvo is only there to further restrict the options and force the niche of fans to accept the abusive price of the product.

This kind of business is well spread in Japan and Atlus/Sega think they can try to implement it in the rest of the world, which obviously won't work, especially when Westerners have a widespread emulation culture (something that Japanese companies hate with all their might because it reduces their ability to take advantage of the consumer).

[Cynicade]

They have a lot of convincing to do here. Denuvo on top of the high price makes this a really unattractive purchase.

Been waiting for years on the next EO entry and they come out with an option worse than playing the ones I already own. Hell I could just emulate them all on a single system and get a better experience.

[Fenlix]

"The bundle only makes it reasonable for long time fans to buy the three games because they know what they're getting into,"

I think even long time fans know the price is absurd XD

[internisus]

Yuzo Koshiro posted about the collection on Twitter. It's interesting and candid; he comes across as a big fan of the series who just happens to compose its music. Seems he is totally in the dark as to the status of EO6.

Anyway, two items I wanted to point out: 1) In the remaster of EO 3, he is giving the sixth stratum a new battle theme, which has often been requested by fans. And 2) he re-recorded his original PC-88 samples for these games, which suggests to me that their soundtracks (or at least one option for them?) will more faithfully retain their intended character than even the original DS releases did since modern hardware should have no difficulty simply playing those recordings, compared to the limited DS soundchip trying (admirably, but still) to approximate them.

Also, as an aside, I want to say that, while I agree with much of what's in the top post, I am glad we are not getting 3D enemy models. I never felt that the 3D models on the 3DS were a straightforward upgrade to the older 2D sprites. They are just two different, equally valid art styles, and in most cases I preferred the simplicity of the older approach. To me, this collection serves to preserve these games in as strong a form as possible, and erasing the existence of the 2D sprites would have betrayed them.

I still have misgivings about these remasters (mainly the font, tbh, although the art and UI also look off and, yes, mobile-like in their new high-res form without the warm filter of my DS XL's scanlines—an impression that reminds me of the Ace Attorney remasters), but between the info from Koshiro and what you have gleaned from the Japanese livestream (thanks very much for that!) I am starting to feel better about them. It was only a few months ago that I last looked for a hack (there isn't one) that rebalanced EO1's busted skills—shifting defense from the medic's ridiculous immunize to the protector's more appropriate hands, at the very least. If we could get a truly definitive version of even just that beloved first game here, fixing its myriad issues, I would be thrilled.

I hope we receive some definitive answers especially regarding control scheme (I would also love to know if the Steam Deck's touch screen is going to be supported like the Switch's touch screen is) before release since pre-ordering is an issue due to the incentive portraits.

[Shylaar]

Originally posted by internisus:

Yuzo Koshiro posted about the collection on Twitter. It's interesting and candid; he comes across as a big fan of the series who just happens to compose its music. Seems he is totally in the dark as to the status of EO6.

Damn, you're right. At the end of it he says "It would be cool if they created a brand new Etrian Odyssey which was already announced many years ago and we haven't heard anything from it for a while... I'm not sure if it's suspended, but I hope it will be released earlier..."
A person who commented on it said they hoped Komori would give more info on the new game soon and Koshiro replied to it saying he hoped so too.

Also, as an aside, I want to say that, while I agree with much of what's in the top post, I am glad we are not getting 3D enemy models. I never felt that the 3D models on the 3DS were a straightforward upgrade to the older 2D sprites. They are just two different, equally valid art styles, and in most cases I preferred the simplicity of the older approach. To me, this collection serves to preserve these games in as strong a form as possible, and erasing the existence of the 2D sprites would have betrayed them.

Yeah, I always thought the artwork of the earlier games looked a lot better than the 3D models of the later games. Having animation is nice and all but the designs really took a hit, the artwork had a strong style with heavy contrast whereas the models are brightly lit and they end up looking very non-threatening, and the crazier monstrosity designs of certain enemies couldn't translate to 3D well at all.

[Card N'FoRcE]

Originally posted by internisus:

1) In the remaster of EO 3, he is giving the sixth stratum a new battle theme, which has often been requested by fans. And 2) he re-recorded his original PC-88 samples for these games, which suggests to me that their soundtracks (or at least one option for them?) will more faithfully retain their intended character than even the original DS releases did since modern hardware should have no difficulty simply playing those recordings, compared to the limited DS soundchip trying (admirably, but still) to approximate them.

Now this is interesting to know. I remember that the lack of a dedicated battle theme for the 6th stratum has always been a minor disappointment, so it shows that they actually care, development-side.

Originally posted by internisus:

I want to say that, while I agree with much of what's in the top post, I am glad we are not getting 3D enemy models. I never felt that the 3D models on the 3DS were a straightforward upgrade to the older 2D sprites.

Originally posted by Shylaar:

Yeah, I always thought the artwork of the earlier games looked a lot better than the 3D models of the later games. Having animation is nice and all but the designs really took a hit, the artwork had a strong style with heavy contrast whereas the models are brightly lit and they end up looking very non-threatening, and the crazier monstrosity designs of certain enemies couldn't translate to 3D well at all.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm perfectly fine with the 2D sprites, I've always been. My main point in the opening is that not only they're not implementing a lot of material they already have because they would need to add some work to compensate for one game in the collection, but they're even asking basically full price as if they did. This wouldn't even be a point of discussion if not for the price, in my eyes. Basically, I'm fine paying more if i get more.

Originally posted by Fenlix:

"The bundle only makes it reasonable for long time fans to buy the three games because they know what they're getting into,"
I think even long time fans know the price is absurd XD

That's a given, the point i was making is that the bundle is way harder to sell to a newcomer. Leaving the price aside, it's basically "pay two games, get one free", but a newcomer who wants to see if they like the games will not get this deal once they buy the first one.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Card N'FoRcE:

. Leaving the price aside, it's basically "pay two games, get one free", but a newcomer who wants to see if they like the games will not get this deal once they buy the first one.

You still get the 33% discount for the remaining two games, so it ends up being about $10 more total.

[LordApollo474]

I actually really like this post, good job putting everything together! I can definitely see where you're coming from!