Etrian Odyssey HD

Etrian Odyssey HD

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Thalq 8 févr. 2023 à 15h32
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Denuvo, prohibitive prices, no untold content... Are you serious?
Etrian Odyssey is my favorite game series, you have no idea how happy I was, finally seeing a sign of life after so many years in this Direct.

I was ready to accept the sloppy integration of Yuji Himukai's amazing artwork, the barely touched labyrinth tile models and textures from Untold, the lack of additional content aside from the new character sprites to justify playing the remasters over the originals...

But this is way too much, Atlus. Why would you do this, when the base games and even the 3DS ones were not even as expensive as these remasters on their own release date? And don't give me any of this inflation/recess crap.

We all know what will happen now. With a price like this, you will not break even, barely anyone will buy this collection when emulation is so widespread these days.
And then your execs will see how much of a failure this release has been, deem the series not profitable enough, and kill it.

I hope I am being too pessimistic and melodramatic here. I hope this is just a doompost. You can't do this to us, Atlus. If my prediction ends up being correct, you've lost a lifelong fan.

It really sucks being an EO lover.
Dernière modification de Thalq; 8 févr. 2023 à 18h20
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Affichage des commentaires 61 à 75 sur 137
Well not that it really matters but I have been voicing the same complaint (use of Denuvo and the prohibitive pricing) in every video ATLUS has released so far for the new sprites.

I would honestly accept the games at $30 and the bundle at $60, I may still feel its too high but I would have still caved and bought it, but the current offers are just a big no, ill wait for the obvious sale that will happen a month after release
Bundle at $60 + discount on 3rd party sites I absolutely would have pre-ordered already despite the fact I'll be very busy when the games drop.
WhiteLezard a écrit :
If you truly loved EO you would pay the money, no questions asked.

If you truly loved EO you would no accept rip offs, because that means they can do like Game Freak and release next EO as badly as possible.
I find that 40 the game and 80 the 3 games is not so bad after all you have to keep in mind that the studio is doing its remasters on pc to find out if the franchise is still working and therefore if they can invest in an etrian odyssey with a lot more ambition for it you need money so instead of swinging a patreon or they'll tell you give us some money they're giving us 3 "classic" remasters to see if the community is ready to follow them in step up me for my part I bought the pack at 80 and I clearly do not regret it
Déchu21 a écrit :
I find that 40 the game and 80 the 3 games is not so bad after all you have to keep in mind that the studio is doing its remasters on pc to find out if the franchise is still working and therefore if they can invest in an etrian odyssey with a lot more ambition for it you need money so instead of swinging a patreon or they'll tell you give us some money they're giving us 3 "classic" remasters to see if the community is ready to follow them in step up me for my part I bought the pack at 80 and I clearly do not regret it

Message copy pasted from other discussions.
. 17 mars 2023 à 12h21 
WhiteLezard a écrit :
Thalq a écrit :

That's the problem I have. My concern is not about buying it or not for myself, but rather what it means for the franchise.
If this flops, we might never see another new EO again, and I want my Yuzo Koshiro dungeon crawler injection.

Well, why would Atlus bother making new EO games when people aren't willing to pay more than $10 (and want them to be piracy-enabled so they don't have to pay at all) for a game that can easily last 50 hours?

Because Denuvo is proven not to prevent piracy, and acts detrimental to the health of one's overall computer and the game performance.
Garbage a écrit :
Because Denuvo is proven not to prevent piracy, and acts detrimental to the health of one's overall computer and the game performance.


I'll just link this again:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/8xpe9q/pc_port_denuvo_misconceptions
Melodia a écrit :
Garbage a écrit :
Because Denuvo is proven not to prevent piracy, and acts detrimental to the health of one's overall computer and the game performance.


I'll just link this again:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/8xpe9q/pc_port_denuvo_misconceptions
It's sad that people's opinions on DRM can change when they see studies proving it does nothing to hurt their computer, as if that is the crux of the problem with DRM. DRM is an utter moral failing of society. It could improve performance and it would still be immoral. Even the negatives listed in this reddit post, that are obviously being downplayed, are far too great to be acceptable. The unwashed masses read that and think "oh, a 5 machine per day install limit, that will never hurt me!" unable to understand, that outside of what their mind can conceive, the harm limiting installs can cause.

That's what's so frustrating about Denuvo apologists. Their mission of spreading statistics and studies and the truth ultimately makes the world a worse place. Perhaps their minds can't conceive of the harm they cause, blinded by this idea of the "truth". I do hope that the spreading of truths about denuvo and DRM will lead to people recognizing the real problems with DRM. But apologists are still apologists.
. 17 mars 2023 à 14h06 
Melodia a écrit :
Garbage a écrit :
Because Denuvo is proven not to prevent piracy, and acts detrimental to the health of one's overall computer and the game performance.


I'll just link this again:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/8xpe9q/pc_port_denuvo_misconceptions

This doesn't take into account a multitude of samples of which can be performed in a controlled environment, and instead is the posting of a rambling Denuvo apologist, working on the behalf of making the environment for PC gaming an overall worse place.

It doesn't negate the statement either that there are no statistics shown to prove that Denuvo lowers piracy rates, or increases sales numbers.
Garbage a écrit :

It doesn't negate the statement either that there are no statistics shown to prove that Denuvo lowers piracy rates, or increases sales numbers.

There are no statistics to prove it hurts your computer either.

As for game performance, what I linked summarizes it quite nicely.
tcassat 17 mars 2023 à 19h34 
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Melodia a écrit :
Garbage a écrit :

It doesn't negate the statement either that there are no statistics shown to prove that Denuvo lowers piracy rates, or increases sales numbers.

There are no statistics to prove it hurts your computer either.

As for game performance, what I linked summarizes it quite nicely.

It depends on the game.

https://youtu.be/UXZGCwAJpbM

Anyway, the problem with Denuvo goes far beyond performance.

Denuvo is anti-consumer, like all very strong DRM. Digital games are really just licenses that you pay to use the game in certain cases, so you don't own anything. But, in practice it doesn't make any difference, because the contracts you sign when you buy a digital game are often useless, nobody can really enforce much of that. Yes, they make you sign a contract full of crap, but they know deep down that you don't have to follow it. In practice, you own your game and can play it the way you want, the most the softhouses can do is try to ban you from online services, which in single player games is the same as nothing in most cases.

With strong DRM, things change completely. Now the company is no longer relying on our good faith, they have powerful tools in their hands to control our access to the games. Yes, they still have to be careful not to violate some law in some country where the consequences can be severe, but the idea that we "own" the digital games for all practical purposes no longer makes sense when there is DRM, especially strong DRM that sometimes no one can break.

It's worth noting that games integrated with Steamworks have a standard Steam DRM, but Steam itself doesn't consider this a true anti-piracy solution because it's a basic system that's easily bypassed. This kind of weak DRM, while not ideal, is not a real problem for consumers. The problem is when DRMs start getting so strong that you have no option but to put in the hands of the softhouse the decision whether or not you can play the game you bought.

You don't need to be a genius to notice that in this scenario the consumer loses all the advantage he had. Now softhouses are kings and you bow down to them, rather than the opposite which is expected in a market where corporations compete to please consumers. Not surprisingly the corporations that opt for Denuvo are often the ones that choose the most predatory attitudes, the most abusive prices and see fans as suckers to be exploited. It is in my opinion the perfect description of ATLUS/SEGA.
Gotta love people ALWAYS bringing up RE Village. It never fails. It's pretty hilarious.
Melodia a écrit :
I'll just link this again:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/8xpe9q/pc_port_denuvo_misconceptions

There's an line there that states
Does Denuvo excessively write to your SSD/HDD/will my SSD get mega ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with Denuvo? Denuvo themselves state the answer is no.

But there's also something along the lines of
Denuvo themselves state the there's no installation limit.

Yet there's a big disclaimer on store pages stating that there IS a 5 machine installation limit, with the definition of "machine"(if I switch out a RAM stick, is it a new machine? No? How bout GPU? Yes? MBoard? Maybe? CPU? Maybe? SSD? Maybe?) being vague.

Companies can say and promise you the world, the meaning of life, the universe and everything within, but do you actually trust them? There's little ways to verify their words to be truthful unless you do it yourself.

And the Village example is one of those where people have done it themselves.

There's literally a counter-argument post as well in your link[everythingdenuvo.wordpress.com]

With this fun addition to the Village example:
SEGA did a major slip-up writing a FAQ section following the massive backlash from them putting Denuvo on Sonic Mania, openly admitting that there was indeed a performance loss from Denuvo and that they had to specifically go out of their way to deal with this
Dernière modification de Stalker Fairy; 18 mars 2023 à 1h46
Melodia a écrit :
Gotta love people ALWAYS bringing up RE Village. It never fails. It's pretty hilarious.

Yes, it's hilarious! I keep laughing every time people use an example of performance being eroded by a strong anti-consumer DRM that transfers the decision of whether the game can be run from the owner of it to the corporation that sold it. It's so hilarious that I can only laugh and remember that meme that says we'll have nothing and be happy. Now please keep breaking down misconceptions people have of Denuvo, because this is definitely something super important you do and will help a lot of consumers be happy and laugh when they notice they don't own their games!
. 19 mars 2023 à 16h16 
I'm convinced Melodia is an Irdeto employee with how hard he's defending this particular hill.
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