Feedback: [spoilers]Second John Watson Fight[/spoilers]

[Flat Duck Fridays]

The second John Watson fight is 80% longer than it needs to be. And it blows goats.

I just exited a forced stealth mission, and then you spring this forced fight on me, so I'm already a bit irritated. But fine, this game doesn't let you do anything without a boss fight.

I am expected to drag three homing missiles into him, which is fine. That's a standard game trope.

In between each missile is 4-5 extra moves that you have to dodge, that's expected. It definitely gets old, but it's not a huge issue if you only have to do it a few times.

Then, you add in the need to baseball bat the missiles into him, which is cool once or twice. I wish Dave faced the mouse when I wind up the melee strikes, but I can work around that.

The missiles have an insane drop when you hit them with the bat, and every time you miss, you have to go through the dodges again. That's so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ irritating, it is just adding all this extra time in for no reason. You have to be way above him, and you try to lure him down all the time to compensate, but sometimes he dodges up to the top, then launches the missile, and you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Every miss requires yet another round of filler nonsense.

I did at least 3-4 more hits on him by batting bombs into him, and missed a few times, so I'm at like 7-9 rounds of dodging his attacks and waiting for missiles.

I got to the point where he was also throwing mines if that helps.

On my 8th-10th round of this garbage I just gave up, I was so sick of this fight that I just let him hit me until I was dead, and then I alt-f4'd. I imagine I was close to the end of the fight, but I just can't care anymore.

That fight is hot garbage, and I'm going to go play something that is fun now. Maybe I'll try again, but maybe not.

[FuryLeika]

This fight made me extremely angry too. For what it's worth though, if you wind up the baseball bat by holding the melee key, Dave will hit it back sharply without that stupid dropoff.

But , I too really hated this fight and it almost made me put the game down.

[ringod123]

Funny, the John Watson fight that happens outside the control room door just made me quit and uninstall. Well the bit right after when the ancient alligator looking thing fights you. It moves faster than you, spins on the spot, has un-dodgeable fire attacks etc etc and the weapon you're supposed to use from john watsons destroyed sub is just awful, tried 15 times but had a large amount of stuff on me, eventually chose back to boat option and it took all my catch off me without telling it me would or letting me change my mind. Got salty, rage quit and uninstalled, just doesnt fit with what the rest of the game is trying to be, Its dave the diver not dark souls.

[Freeman]

OP, if you charge your bat fully dave will smack missile into watson 100%, no dropoff. No point doing anything else.

[Zeph]

You know you can smack the mines into him too right lol

[Jeff]

Protip: Fight closer to him, and let the bomb pass and circle around the bomb. When the bomb slows down and starts to beep, that is a good time to get in position and hit it. This way you don't have to hit a fastball. It's more like playing Tee-ball than baseball.

[Ignosius]

Full power bat swing knocks his bombs directly back at him. It's like the easiest part of the fight.

[Rennec Bibo]

If the bombs exploded when you hit him with them that would help. But the only way I can make him take damage is if he's standing on the sea floor when he shoots his little explosive baseball. Meaning I need to position myself needlessly dangerous (seeing as I really can't doge worth ♥♥♥♥ having no gear). At least give me the option to reload and try to gear up. (even though that means taking the long ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ way down to the sea people village) But I don't know where I'll end up if I kill the process.
This is a really badly designed and really poorly implemented boss fight almost matching the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fest that was Deus Ex.

[x42bn6]

I found this hard too, but I managed to beat it eventually. Some hints:

- Avoid being level, vertically with him. When he starts performing that annoying charge attack, dodge vertically in the opposite direction the moment he starts that charge (the Octopus Bracelet is very useful here). So if you were below him, dodge up; if you were above him, dodge down. If you're level-ish, you won't know which way to go, so it's a 50-50.
- You can lure the missiles back to him. However, this requires you to be close to him. Being close to him means you can be hit by his grappling attack, and it's harder to dodge his charge attack.
- Alternatively, you can charge the baseball bat (chest at the bottom) and smack the missile back at him. This is the best approach. However, you will first need to get the baseball bat. Therefore on the first missile, stay close-ish, steer the missile into him, and the moment it's on course, grab the baseball bat. You can technically get the baseball bat at any time, but he gets faster over time, so it's easiest on the first missile.

As for feedback, I think this boss is fine, but the developers could probably cut out two hits. It would have also been nice if it was, say, a quest where the player always had the option to change their equipment beforehand, since the Octopus Bracelet is so good here.

[Vardis]

How many of you are using the octopus charm? I use that constantly, and it makes positioning in the fight trivial. I'm just wondering if not having it active is why others are running into trouble with him.

[Zeph]

Originally posted by Vardis:

How many of you are using the octopus charm? I use that constantly, and it makes positioning in the fight trivial. I'm just wondering if not having it active is why others are running into trouble with him.

I dont think Ive ever removed it. I got that and the dolphin charm permanently equipped

[Myth]

Originally posted by Jeff:

Protip: Fight closer to him, and let the bomb pass and circle around the bomb. When the bomb slows down and starts to beep, that is a good time to get in position and hit it. This way you don't have to hit a fastball. It's more like playing Tee-ball than baseball.

*NODS* I took him down this way myself. Initially it was tricky kiting JW's homing missiles back onto him: They would go off just short of JW. It took a bit of experimentation to perfect the technique. After that JW was pretty easy to beat.

I wasn't even aware you could use bat to hit them back at him..

[zab]

Devs have to rethink many of these boss fights. Swimming and dodging for 1 shot at 1 long shot hit, with only a few lifelines (o2 refills) available that you're usually killed when you're trying to use. John Watson, Crab, and 1 other one have made me want to uninstall. Also the lack of feedback - have my hits done any damage, how much more health does the Boss have.
Look at your logs, if folks fail 4-5 times in a row after 10 minutes each, you've done it wrong.

[Silly Megalodon]

unless they changed how the fight works in a patch, the easiest way to take him down is to position yourself near him when he fires the missiles, then around him to make the missile hit him in its attempt to get to you. FAR easier than finnagling with the baseball bat and positioning.

[Myth]

Originally posted by zab:

Devs have to rethink many of these boss fights. Swimming and dodging for 1 shot at 1 long shot hit, with only a few lifelines (o2 refills) available that you're usually killed when you're trying to use. John Watson, Crab, and 1 other one have made me want to uninstall. Also the lack of feedback - have my hits done any damage, how much more health does the Boss have.
Look at your logs, if folks fail 4-5 times in a row after 10 minutes each, you've done it wrong.

I disagree.

All of the bosses come down to gear, tactics and skill. The devs have pitched these requirements so that everyone reading this can, with practice, beat any boss in the game. Boss difficulty generally increases as the game progresses. Dave's equipment should be geared up to compensate for those increases.

General tips for all bosses:
- Make sure Dave has enough health (O2).
- It's a good idea to take extra O2 cylinder(s) for additional healing.
- Wear the most useful trinkets that you have (ones that improve speed and survivability).
- Make sure you select the right weapon for a given encounter: If a boss kills Dave with two hits then maybe use a long range weapon, giving you more time react to incoming attacks.
- The right weapon at level 1 is often better than the wrong one at higher level.
- If you have the wrong weapon, you can always obtain a more appropriate one from the bosses own weapon chest - although you may need to retry the encounter until RNG offers it up.
- Learn the encounter. Boss attacks are proceeded by a "tell". Some bosses need a bit of practice.
- If you keep getting hit, then you probably need to work on your kiting skills. A scooter helps so pick one up before entered the encounter.
- Be aware that vortex bosses are optional. They will re-spawn every time weather conditions are right, until Dave dispatches them. I.E. You have as much time as you need to prepare for them.
- Remember, you get infinite, penalty-free retries. AFAIK you only lose loot if you give up and leave a boss encounter without winning it.
- Don't take loot you can't bear to lose to a boss encounter. Find what you need (weapon, O2, scooter, weapon upgrade cards etc) then head straight to the boss. Gathering resources can always be done afterwards.

[GIRL-mintmind32]

yeah please spoiler me IN the title - genius