Explanation for tsumego problems

[Siilk]

I'm a below average go player so using this game as a learning tool is very useful for me. However, while I find tsumego section useful even as is, I often find myself struggling not only with finding a solution for the problem but also with understanding why and how the solving moves work. Eespecially so for problems which I failed to solve myself and had to pick several moves at random to see the solution.

So I think tsumego problems should have explanation for the winning move. At the very least, an automatic playthrough till the obvious resolution(cut/kill/unconditional life etc) of the problem. Ideally, there should also be a textual explanation of the reasoning behind the solution. I think this will be very helpful for beginners and low skill players like me.

[LudoTech]

I agree. it would be nice not only for the ones you failed to solve, but also for the ones you're not sure if your choice is the correct answer since if is, the problem just desappears without showing you why you were right. Kind of frustrating ^^

[NickG]

Tsumego doesnt has explanation because two reasons:
"The problems come without solutions for two reasons: first, one can learn more by reading out all the paths and solving the problems oneself; second, the solutions are copyrighted"

[Slain]

I had no idea that the Tsumego problems were copyright. Is it possible to copyright board positions?

[Siilk]

Originally posted by Garzant:

Tsumego doesnt has explanation because two reasons:
"The problems come without solutions for two reasons: first, one can learn more by reading out all the paths and solving the problems oneself; second, the solutions are copyrighted"

Is that a quote from a dev post? Can you add a link to the source?

[Angry Bear]

How do you even access tsumego within the game? Do you try to take over the historical matches or is there another menu which I am just oblivious to? Or are they the sample problems which come up during tutorial?
PS very new to go...

[Acer]

Originally posted by Angry Bear:

How do you even access tsumego within the game?

They're under Career Mode -> Training.

To the OP's question, I've found that clicking the hand icon in the bottom right swaps it to "Try Play" mode, which lets you place pieces freely without actually submitting. Or you can enter a couple incorrect moves somewhere else on the board to get into Try Play mode.

This lets you try playing out responses to the correct or incorrect answers, so you can learn why a move works/doesn't work. Right-click undoes the last move so you can quickly try different things.

Unfortunately there's no AI to show you the opponent responses though, so it does require some effort on your part to try different approaches and see why they work. I can see where that'd be hard for complete beginners.

[NickG]

Originally posted by Siilk:

Originally posted by Garzant:

Tsumego doesnt has explanation because two reasons:
"The problems come without solutions for two reasons: first, one can learn more by reading out all the paths and solving the problems oneself; second, the solutions are copyrighted"

Is that a quote from a dev post? Can you add a link to the source?

Nope, this is a phrase that comes from a source that selected the best tsumego problems, probably the official source of all the mods and game modes that uses them (because some old and non-selected tsumego problems are believed to be impossible)

This is the document where that phrase comes from, and the source https://tsumego.tasuki.org/books/cho-1-elementary-mobile.pdf

[NickG]

The fact that you need to put the white stones yourself (play with yourself) is a way of learning faster, since you interiorize better how would you react to certain plays. I prefer to solve tsumegos in a real board to be honest, but it is fun anyway in digital.

[Siilk]

Originally posted by Acer:

To the OP's question, I've found that clicking the hand icon in the bottom right swaps it to "Try Play" mode, which lets you place pieces freely without actually submitting. Or you can enter a couple incorrect moves somewhere else on the board to get into Try Play mode.

This lets you try playing out responses to the correct or incorrect answers, so you can learn why a move works/doesn't work. Right-click undoes the last move so you can quickly try different things.

Unfortunately there's no AI to show you the opponent responses though, so it does require some effort on your part to try different approaches and see why they work. I can see where that'd be hard for complete beginners.

Yeah, that what I do as well. The problem is, as I'm a low skill player, I may very easy miss a good move when trying to play out the "resolution" of a tsumego and there's no solution available to point out what I was missing. I never sure if my understanding of why the correct move is the only or the best possible move for a particular board configuration.

So while I can usually find the solution quickly enough, I don't always get a proper understanding of the reasoning behind it or a good grip on how it should properly play out. And I'm not even too far into the tsumego so I expect them to become even harder to fully understand for me.

It's rather unfortunate that tsumego solutions seem to be unlikely to appear. judging by what Garzant is posted about them being copyrighted. :/

[matteste]

While I understood it for the most part, challenges 21 to around 36 I believe it was I struggle to see the logic of.

They ended up being very much trial and error to beat.

[Slain]

Sometimes a solution can seem correct, but if it ends up as seki or ko, there probably was a better solution. Or sometimes the problems are asking you to make a compromise, either by making seki or ko, or choosing what pieces you should give up.

[uniko]

Originally posted by Slain:

I had no idea that the Tsumego problems were copyright. Is it possible to copyright board positions?

I don't know about other territories, but Japanese copyright law is specially strict and does allow copyrighting the solution to tsumego.

[matteste]

Originally posted by Slain:

I had no idea that the Tsumego problems were copyright. Is it possible to copyright board positions?

You'd be surprised at just how stupid and draconian copyright law can be.

[OrangeMammut]

https://online-go.com/puzzle/2625

Here is a collection of go puzzles with explanations that I found very helpful for learning how to reason about these problems.

[StarLight]

Originally posted by OrangeMammut:

https://online-go.com/puzzle/2625

Here is a collection of go puzzles with explanations that I found very helpful for learning how to reason about these problems.

Totally agree this is a great list of Tsumego Problems!