Reactor is bad game design

[>//The_FALCON]

People pick focused fixing specifically because they don't want to deal with a 10 second fuse while they're trying to figure out the new thing. In focused fixing mode, it should be extra sensitive to mistakes instead of being a timebomb.

Also bad game design is kicking the player aaaaaaaaaall the way back to the beginning if they didn't manage to stabilize it. A hallmark of roguelikes is that the player can immediately go back and start again. Maybe the first time the player encounters a reactor, the game should stop time or something.

I'm at the point where I actively avoid any contract with a reactor in it, so I can actually play the game. At least the time bombs have a fair and balanced 100 seconds time limit and a single venn diagram to look at.

Also, please add a first rent skip upgrade. It's tedious to go through the first few days of low paying contracts again and again. I feel like at this point I can do these blind...

[Yuzu]

for me, "good game design" means the game aligns the narrative it's trying to express with its mechanics in a way that is fun, fair, and engaging. i think the reactor does a good job of being a high stakes wall. its narrative of servicing a dangerous part of the ship is enhanced by the mechanical side of requiring the service to be fast, precise, and having it be easy to screw up. everything's there for you in the manual (except the dumb agreement screen, which should be changed). it's just a matter of execution. it's not that fun, but it is fair, and it's very engaging. so yeah, as far as my report card for "good game design" goes, i'd say it gets a "good".

all in all, i don't see it as that different from stuff in other roguelikes. multiple things in every level of Spleunky can kill you in the blink of an eye. i don't know that you could beat the final boss of Slay the Spire without a few deaths and several runs just to unlock cards. OG roguelikes like NetHack have things like cockatrices, which kill you if they touch you within a few turns. a big part of the satisfaction in roguelikes comes from seeing an old nemesis and completely destroying them with your improved skill and knowledge. this game is no exception.

i set aside a few runs to learn the reactor and took it every chance i could get expecting to die. i had it figured out in 3 tries, and it still makes my heart race even after doing it successfully 5-6 times now.

[>//The_FALCON]

Originally posted by Yuzu:

for me, "good game design" means the game aligns the narrative it's trying to express with its mechanics in a way that is fun, fair, and engaging. i think the reactor does a good job of being a high stakes wall. its narrative of servicing a dangerous part of the ship is enhanced by the mechanical side of requiring the service to be fast, precise, and having it be easy to screw up. everything's there for you in the manual (except the dumb agreement screen, which should be changed). it's just a matter of execution. it's not that fun, but it is fair, and it's very engaging. so yeah, as far as my report card for "good game design" goes, i'd say it gets a "good".

all in all, i don't see it as that different from stuff in other roguelikes. multiple things in every level of Spleunky can kill you in the blink of an eye. i don't know that you could beat the final boss of Slay the Spire without a few deaths and several runs just to unlock cards. OG roguelikes like NetHack have things like cockatrices, which kill you if they touch you within a few turns. a big part of the satisfaction in roguelikes comes from seeing an old nemesis and completely destroying them with your improved skill and knowledge. this game is no exception.

i set aside a few runs to learn the reactor and took it every chance i could get expecting to die. i had it figured out in 3 tries, and it still makes my heart race even after doing it successfully 5-6 times now.

reactors aren't fair. the game consented to no timers when i picked focus mode, and then it just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ backstabs me with a 10 second fuse, which leaves NO time for beginners.

[Daff]

Sounds to me that you just refuse to learn how to do reactors because you feel personally betrayed that you were put under time pressure. youre under this impression that its this impossible to overcome monolith of a task because having to do it before anything else is a crime even though the threat of the time limit is effectively non-existant once you know just how basic the module really is.

[shanaqui]

Originally posted by >//The_FALCON:

reactors aren't fair. the game consented to no timers when i picked focus mode, and then it just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ backstabs me with a 10 second fuse, which leaves NO time for beginners.

I did just double-check this myself because I thought I remembered it saying there are no time-limits, too. Focused actually fixing says "No day time limit" versus frantic fixing's "time limit to days". It doesn't say "there will be no mechanics with time limits".

It would be nice if it also explicitly stated "some mechanics will still have time limits", but it doesn't ever promise "no time limits at all". So I don't think it's quite fair to say that the game said there would be no timers, because it didn't, even if that's what I felt was implied when I read it initially. I was wrong, it just doesn't say that.

But I think the point of reactors anyway probably is that they deliberately don't leave much time for beginners. It's a roguelite, so encountering a mechanic you don't know yet and having it explode in your face to teach you to do XYZ first next time (in this case, read the manual) is a pretty standard staple of the genre. Here it's because there's a time limit, in other games it might be due to difficulty level (unupgraded gear or skills, for instance), but all of it's pretty much to be expected. You're not meant to be able to finish it without ever dying and getting sent back to the start.

Anyway, I avoided reactors for a while too, but there really is a dead simple way of handling them each and every time, if you feel flustered by them. It will work regardless of what else you might need to do in order to fix the ship, and there is always enough time to do this as long as you go to the reactor straight away.

- Open reactor compartment
- Hit green button to accept and open it
- Flip the fuel switch so it's off and move the cooler slider all the way down
- Undo the three bolts, with the top one last
- Undo the clips
- Take out the reactor

The time limit is now completely gone until you want to put the reactor back in. You can fix all modules, or just fix the cooler and the fuel if necessary first, and then all you need to do to finish up with the reactor is reverse your actions:

- Open reactor compartment
- Hit green button
- Put the reactor in
- Apply the three clips
- Tighten the three bolts, top one first
- Flip the fuel switch to "on" and drag the cooler slider up
- The reactor is already stabilising
- Make sure the coolant level is pretty much equal to the fuel level to finish

You're now out of danger permanently.

[>//The_FALCON]

Originally posted by Daff:

Sounds to me that you just refuse to learn how to do reactors because you feel personally betrayed that you were put under time pressure. youre under this impression that its this impossible to overcome monolith of a task because having to do it before anything else is a crime even though the threat of the time limit is effectively non-existant once you know just how basic the module really is.

the only other module with a timer has 100 seconds, one page, and at most 5 interactable things that aren't hidden behind other things. this is easy to learn

what is not easy to learn is to guess the correct captcha because the book doesn't even tell you and the text isnt even in english, then flip a switch (which isnt even labeled), pull a fader, pull out the wrench, take out all 3 bolts, click the 3 clips and pull out the reactor IN UNDER TEN SECONDS ON YOUR FIRST TRY or else get sent back to the beginning and spend hours without seeing that again

the game tries EVERYTHING to make you fail the reactor

there is good game design, then there's the reactor.

[Daff]

first of all, its not even a captcha, yes its confusing as to why it exists which is the only poorly designed thing about it, but anyone with even a little bit of willingness to *try* will find out that hitting the green button opens the module every single time without fail.

second,. The switch is labelled in the grimoire. i am once again imploring you to read it. this entire game hinges on reading the grimoire it is not the games fault if you refuse to.

third, i find it hilarious you cant do that in under 10 seconds, but more importantly you have longer than ten seconds. even without fuel. After shutting off a reactors fuel pump and turning off the coolant it took over 100 in-game seconds to get halfway destabilized from full. which may be impacted by the level of reactant left but point being, you have an extremely generous amount of time to do it if you actually know what youre doing.

[>//The_FALCON]

Originally posted by Daff:

you have an extremely generous amount of time to do it if you actually know what youre doing.

which is what being new to a mechanic is the exact opposite to. don't pretend like you didn't have a first time with it

[Daff]

I did have a first time with it. and then i read the grimoire and havent ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up since. which is what ive been saying from the beginning.

its almost like this game is a roguelite or something.

[>//The_FALCON]

Originally posted by Daff:

I did have a first time with it. and then i read the grimoire and havent ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up since. which is what ive been saying from the beginning.

its almost like this game is a roguelite or something.

bad. game. design.

[Armored Chocobo]

The tag says "Fatal", it directly tells you the module can end your run.

If you're not up to the challenge (it doesn't pay all that well anyway), you don't HAVE to do it.

Hell, I haven't done a single FTL or Cockpit (that only come with Reactors) and I 100% the game's endings.

[Ultimoron]

Grimoire only says to turn the switch off... but if there is no fuel you have no indication if the switch is on or off, until you know it. Because ther eis no indication for that switch in that Book that Up means off....

yes, that thing is definitly designed for the player to fail....
i am not even mad about it,.. its a rouge light, we are at somepoint supposed to fail and in my first run i was wondering why there are so little obstacles.

its not entirly difficult until you know your way around it....

the game teaches you to call in a ship. look in the book and figure out how it works...
thats not how it works for the reactor... you don get the time todo this.

yes the tag says Fatal,... what ever should i know those tag that descripe the mood of the pilot have any meaning for anything in FOCUS mode...

its poorly communicated. that is what makes it bad, atleast in my point of view.

its like the venn diagram for the pipebomb, that think hurts my brain... :D

or like the ant-tamper module i still dont know what this thing is supposed todo, does is protect the safe? or every module? some aspects of the game are just irritating... :D

[shanaqui]

Originally posted by Ultimoron:

or like the ant-tamper module i still dont know what this thing is supposed todo, does is protect the safe? or every module? some aspects of the game are just irritating... :D

If you fail on a safe that doesn't have an anti-tamper module, you've just failed the safe and there's no consequence.

If you fail on a safe that does have an anti-tamper module, an alarm goes off and IIRC the ship then leaves in whatever state you've got it to at that point.

[Daff]

Originally posted by shanaqui:

Originally posted by Ultimoron:

or like the ant-tamper module i still dont know what this thing is supposed todo, does is protect the safe? or every module? some aspects of the game are just irritating... :D

If you fail on a safe that doesn't have an anti-tamper module, you've just failed the safe and there's no consequence.

If you fail on a safe that does have an anti-tamper module, an alarm goes off and IIRC the ship then leaves in whatever state you've got it to at that point.

theres an enormous money penalty

[shanaqui]

That too!

[Kito Ballard]

The biggest thing I found annoying with this thing is the fuel switch, as it doesn't state which way is "off". That and the fact that the whole thing seems to feel like it shouldn't be mitigated by just yoinking the bloody thing. It makes it sound like you should still keep pushing to solve all the issues at hand to fix the reactor. While I now know what it so, I still rather do 5 ships of pipebombs over this damn thing.