Is the grip level more realistic than DR2

[Pringles]

Noticed I had a lot easier time with the Group B RWD than DR2, where I slid off the track constantly but now Group B RWD is super easy to control, wondering if that's how grip level is more real?

[Wallu]

At least the stages are more realistic. In DR 2.0. Finland and Australia seemed like a rollercoaster rides more than real roads. At least in VR.

As for the driving, I'm no expert, but somehow it does seem more realistic too. Not necessarily more fun yet, but still more realistic.

I like this game a lot better and I loved DR 2.0 too.

[stburr91]

Wallu eredeti hozzászólása:

At least the stages are more realistic. In DR 2.0. Finland and Australia seemed like a rollercoaster rides more than real roads. At least in VR.

As for the driving, I'm no expert, but somehow it does seem more realistic too. Not necessarily more fun yet, but still more realistic.

I like this game a lot better and I loved DR 2.0 too.

Interesting, I find Finland in DR2 to be substantially better than in this game. Finland in this game seems so flat, bland and lifeless. Also, the grip levels are insanely high.

It's strange to me that someone would say stages that seem like "rollercoaster rides" in a rally game, is a bad thing.

Fun, exhilarating, visceral, and challenging are what I'm looking for in rally stages. Stages being "real" means nothing to me personally.

Oh well, people all have their own preferences.

[[RXS] da| reeZe ^.-]

stburr91 eredeti hozzászólása:

Wallu eredeti hozzászólása:

At least the stages are more realistic. In DR 2.0. Finland and Australia seemed like a rollercoaster rides more than real roads. At least in VR.

As for the driving, I'm no expert, but somehow it does seem more realistic too. Not necessarily more fun yet, but still more realistic.

I like this game a lot better and I loved DR 2.0 too.

Interesting, I find Finland in DR2 to be substantially better than in this game. Finland in this game seems so flat, bland and lifeless. Also, the grip levels are insanely high.

It's strange to me that someone would say stages that seem like "rollercoaster rides" in a rally game, is a bad thing.

Fun, exhilarating, visceral, and challenging are what I'm looking for in rally stages. Stages being "real" means nothing to me personally.

Oh well, people all have their own preferences.

For me: As more real the stage is as more happy i am.
I mean, would you buy a F1 title which says Nürburgring contains and then it is any micky mouse circuit instead of Nürburgring itself?
Beside of that, i have a driving license, but by law im not allowed to drive roads next to me unlimited. So im pretty happy if i can do it in anyway simulated. To protect other people and myself. Also to reduce costs. Who wanna do sports need a sports utility.
Espacially when a developer have the license to creat the real ones, why they shouldnt do it.
Rather to pick up the topic with Finland itself. To be honest, for me it feels 1000% more real in EA WRC just already because of the vegitation. But which NOT means that it was sh*t or in any kind unrealistic in DR2.0.
It was also good stages, but i feel the point with the rollercoaster what he meant.
It is more like a jumping highspeed run, beside of any "real" technical driving. On some jumps it is more luck then mind to survive. Espacially when you try to contest World-Leaderboards.
BUT you are absolutly right, everybody have their own preferences.

[Viking2121]

I don't think so, you grip to much in some area's, but DR2 it feels like your on ice, I don't think either is more realistic than the other. But I got no experience with a rally car, but have taken a number of scrap car off gravel roads in North Dakota at some speed in my younger days, I remember we took a 88 5.7 corvette off on gravel and that car did really well aside from the miss fire and other issues it had, In no way did it feel like DR2's low HP rear wheel drives and that vette had street tires. We ended up blowing the trans up, lost 1st gear, was fun getting it home as my buddies did not break tow rope, and the auto trans did not like taking off in 2nd.

I miss them days.

[Tracker_168]

stburr91 eredeti hozzászólása:

Wallu eredeti hozzászólása:

At least the stages are more realistic. In DR 2.0. Finland and Australia seemed like a rollercoaster rides more than real roads. At least in VR.

As for the driving, I'm no expert, but somehow it does seem more realistic too. Not necessarily more fun yet, but still more realistic.

I like this game a lot better and I loved DR 2.0 too.

Interesting, I find Finland in DR2 to be substantially better than in this game. Finland in this game seems so flat, bland and lifeless. Also, the grip levels are insanely high.

It's strange to me that someone would say stages that seem like "rollercoaster rides" in a rally game, is a bad thing.

Fun, exhilarating, visceral, and challenging are what I'm looking for in rally stages. Stages being "real" means nothing to me personally.

Oh well, people all have their own preferences.

Well that is good to know. Mariokart has some pretty rad stages with jumps, rainbows, lava, waterfalls, flying turtles. Mariokart is also super fun. Its just not what I want in a Rally game, trying to recreate a rally experience, not a theme-park version of rally. But different preferences. To me, part of the appeal of this game is the epic long stages, maintaining focus, finding the balance between try-hard mode and driving conservative to get to the end. In some ways its when you drive 8/10ths when you crash because you lose focus. I wouldn't say the stages are bland but I dont want made up stages with just the highlights. I want the full meal deal, where parts might feel the same but you have to keep focused on the pace notes to not get caught out by subtle differences. Dirt 4 tried to do this with their stage generator but it suffered from every 3L or 4R driving the same. I dont get that same feeling here because corners are similar but never the same.

Finland elevation change is less in this game but find me a game with as much elevation change in one stage as WRC's Greece or Sardegna?

As for too much grip, in DR2, you just Gymkhana slide everything because it was too easy to slide and the ease of power oversteer just made driving every corner variations of the same technique. Initiate slide and powerslide out. DR2 had this weird combination of high front end grip and very low rear end grip. You can still slide the cars around in WRC, but like real life, too much and you scrub too much speed and you lose time. Finding the right balance is what makes this driving more engaging than DR2.

[Atavachron]

stburr91 eredeti hozzászólása:

I would say that over 99% of the people that play rally games don't know what "realistic" is when it comes to grip levels for rally cars. This is why I almost always avoid talking about what's "realistic".

Truthfully even Jon Armstrong that worked on the development of the game, has limited experience. He's only driven a very limited number of rally cars, so even he can only say what "realistic" is in a few cars.

All I care about is if it is believable and to my knowledge WRC is just that !
Driving wise I find it to be, but the damage model is basically hit or miss !

[stburr91]

Tracker_168 eredeti hozzászólása:

stburr91 eredeti hozzászólása:

Interesting, I find Finland in DR2 to be substantially better than in this game. Finland in this game seems so flat, bland and lifeless. Also, the grip levels are insanely high.

It's strange to me that someone would say stages that seem like "rollercoaster rides" in a rally game, is a bad thing.

Fun, exhilarating, visceral, and challenging are what I'm looking for in rally stages. Stages being "real" means nothing to me personally.

Oh well, people all have their own preferences.

Well that is good to know. Mariokart has some pretty rad stages with jumps, rainbows, lava, waterfalls, flying turtles. Mariokart is also super fun. Its just not what I want in a Rally game, trying to recreate a rally experience, not a theme-park version of rally. But different preferences. To me, part of the appeal of this game is the epic long stages, maintaining focus, finding the balance between try-hard mode and driving conservative to get to the end. In some ways its when you drive 8/10ths when you crash because you lose focus. I wouldn't say the stages are bland but I dont want made up stages with just the highlights. I want the full meal deal, where parts might feel the same but you have to keep focused on the pace notes to not get caught out by subtle differences. Dirt 4 tried to do this with their stage generator but it suffered from every 3L or 4R driving the same. I dont get that same feeling here because corners are similar but never the same.

Finland elevation change is less in this game but find me a game with as much elevation change in one stage as WRC's Greece or Sardegna?

As for too much grip, in DR2, you just Gymkhana slide everything because it was too easy to slide and the ease of power oversteer just made driving every corner variations of the same technique. Initiate slide and powerslide out. DR2 had this weird combination of high front end grip and very low rear end grip. You can still slide the cars around in WRC, but like real life, too much and you scrub too much speed and you lose time. Finding the right balance is what makes this driving more engaging than DR2.

We were talking about the Finland stages in DR2, do you think they are equivalent to Mario kart?

[Schub69]

90% of my driving time in WRC 23 I go with the RWDs(60% alone with the great Lancia 037, my absolute favorite car in game👍👌🙌♥️), in DR 2.0 round 60% with the RWDs. And if you think it is easier than in DR to drive them than I would say the condition makes the difference!

I most go with the RWDs to the clubs - GPLaps with over 1300 members is my absolute favorite club(!!!) - and there often the max stage Degredation is setted, and than it is more difficult to drive the RWDs than in DR 2.0 with max Degredation! And also the Lancia Stratos is more toxic in WRC 23 than in DR 2.0, I have enough time in both sims to compare them.

And in my opinion the RWDs in WRC 23 have overall more realistic behavior than in DR 2.0, at least on gravel! It was 20years ago I had the chance to drive the Opel Ascona Rallye car irl on gravel and my memories are still there. And no sim could give me better that memories back than WRC 23! The RWDs on gravel are a true come dream for me, the physics are on point, they are amazing!!

[Paradox1126]

Schub69 eredeti hozzászólása:

90% of my driving time in WRC 23 I go with the RWDs(60% alone with the great Lancia 037, my absolute favorite car in game👍👌🙌♥️), in DR 2.0 round 60% with the RWDs. And if you think it is easier than in DR to drive them than I would say the condition makes the difference!

I most go with the RWDs to the clubs - GPLaps with over 1300 members is my absolute favorite club(!!!) - and there often the max stage Degredation is setted, and than it is more difficult to drive the RWDs than in DR 2.0 with max Degredation! And also the Lancia Stratos is more toxic in WRC 23 than in DR 2.0, I have enough time in both sims to compare them.

And in my opinion the RWDs in WRC 23 have overall more realistic behavior than in DR 2.0, at least on gravel! It was 20years ago I had the chance to drive the Opel Ascona Rallye car irl on gravel and my memories are still there. And no sim could give me better that memories back than WRC 23! The RWDs on gravel are a true come dream for me, the physics are on point, they are amazing!!

So i would like to know your thoughts in regards to the snap oversteer and arcade like feel?

[-RG]

Both DR2 and WRC lack wheelspin. Thats why group b cars in this game are faster than WRCs. Taming oversteer is easier in WRC, compared to DR2. But in overall I believe WRC is more realistic than DR2, mostly on surface feeling, where WRC is by far superior.
If only we had more wheelspin, we could finally throw RBR to garbage, but it doesnt seem to happen.

[Tracker_168]

-RG eredeti hozzászólása:

Both DR2 and WRC lack wheelspin. Thats why group b cars in this game are faster than WRCs. Taming oversteer is easier in WRC, compared to DR2. But in overall I believe WRC is more realistic than DR2, mostly on surface feeling, where WRC is by far superior.
If only we had more wheelspin, we could finally throw RBR to garbage, but it doesnt seem to happen.

Agreed. The main driving characteristic for DR2 is easy brake-induced oversteer and exaggerated power-oversteer. DR2 didnt take much technique to get the cars sliding and the main challenge with driving the DR2 cars is mostly just managing oversteer. Maybe this is why lots of people love DR2 because oversteer = fun. DR2 gives it to you easily in spades but its only one part of car control; you really do not need to work to get oversteer (I call it "earn your turn"). I think WRC is better but I do wish the cars had a bit more low end torque. Not too much because then you can just use power oversteer as a crutch to navigate around every corner like in DR2. Lowering the gear ratios does help with the torque delivery though and might get you more of the wheelspin you are looking for.

[stburr91]

Tracker_168 eredeti hozzászólása:

-RG eredeti hozzászólása:

Both DR2 and WRC lack wheelspin. Thats why group b cars in this game are faster than WRCs. Taming oversteer is easier in WRC, compared to DR2. But in overall I believe WRC is more realistic than DR2, mostly on surface feeling, where WRC is by far superior.
If only we had more wheelspin, we could finally throw RBR to garbage, but it doesnt seem to happen.

Agreed. The main driving characteristic for DR2 is easy brake-induced oversteer and exaggerated power-oversteer. DR2 didnt take much technique to get the cars sliding and the main challenge with driving the DR2 cars is mostly just managing oversteer. Maybe this is why lots of people love DR2 because oversteer = fun. DR2 gives it to you easily in spades but its only one part of car control; you really do not need to work to get oversteer (I call it "earn your turn"). I think WRC is better but I do wish the cars had a bit more low end torque. Not too much because then you can just use power oversteer as a crutch to navigate around every corner like in DR2. Lowering the gear ratios does help with the torque delivery though and might get you more of the wheelspin you are looking for.

There's no question that DR2 is more fun, and engaging on gravel because of the oversteer, although it's easy enough to drive the cars with minimal oversteer.

With this game, the gravel feels almost like the tarmac did in DR2, there's a little bit of sliding, but you are mostly driving like you would a tarmac rally, and that's a boring gravel experience.

[Tracker_168]

DR2 tarmac has been universially panned as being inaccurate and essentially a grippier version of their gravel so your observations make sense. Are you doing different weight transfer techniques, harnessing momentum from one corner to the next doing pendulum turns etc? Or are you are you doing more grip driving style in DR2 to begin with? But DR2 artificially gifts the player free oversteer to make people feel like rally stars; when they dont actually have to do much to get the cars rotating. Whereas in WRC, it does not gift you oversteer anymore; so the cars respond more like what a car does; not just swing the back end out on the slightest input.

While you can drive the gravel stages like you are grip driving, you certainly can also get the cars to slide in WRC gravel. I think the fastest times are not driving like you would doing grip driving. There are plenty of videos players sliding the cars around with relative ease.

I find DR2 less engaging because how to navigate corners its mostly the same. Some variation of too easily found entry-oversteer and just manage the power oversteer. Does not mean its not challenging but its a more formularic and repetitive style of driving.

Also, the fastest techniques in tarmac track driving involve a little trailbraking rotation during early corner entry phase anyway. One distinction between that and loose surface is the amount of oversteer you want to induce on corner entry. To that end, WRC is awesome because you have to use more weight transfer to get that; its closer to real life. Its not just given to you.

[Wallu]

I have no idea how realistic this game is, but looking back those ones and twos (turns) in DR2.0. they were just too easy to slide through with your handbrake even on low speeds. And as I said above, the elevation was bonkers at some rallies. This does feel a lot more realistic both ways.

Easily the better game in all aspects imo.

[Tracker_168]

DR2 is more fun if you just want a more casual rally experience, a taste only, shorter stages, easier to drift cars. Which I fear is what the majority of the rally game fan base is wanting. CM mistake was that when they designed this game to be approachable for new players, they did it by making the cars more stable unless you drive them at/pass the limits. As such, if you dont push the limits, bother with setup changes etc. you can get through a stage but not in the ice-slidey way that made DR2 fun for casual players. Maybe in future iterations they will make an artificial slippery mode for the casual rally gamer but like assists, you have to activate it so that on leader-boards, people know which mode you are playing. The assists in the game make the game cars more stable, not assist you in sliding the cars.