FWD rallies show how poorly the handbrake works in this game

[Dark Redslayer]

Off throttle once the car starts to rotate it should basically never return to understeer while holding the hand brake, but yet you can only really get the car to rotate about 90 degrees regardless of speed, which makes twisty rallies with a lot of hairpins irritating in FWD cars.

I've abused the hand brake in more than my share of cars in real life on various surfaces, and I've never had a car just stop rotating and go into understeer before. It feels so fked up when it happens at lower speeds, and considering any throttle input makes you understeer immediately, it makes FWD cars annoying more than fun.

Its also odd because if you hold the hand brake, while on throttle you'll just go straight and lose speed until you stop lol.

[TeknoBug]

I haven't noticed anything either, you have to remember FWD drives differently, handbrake locks up only rear wheels while all the grip is in the front so it's not going to feel the same.

[Bainrow Kicks]

Originally posted by TeknoBug:

I haven't noticed anything either, you have to remember FWD drives differently, handbrake locks up only rear wheels while all the grip is in the front so it's not going to feel the same.

It should be fairly easy to spin the front wheels while the handbrake is activated though. Now it's like the handbrake affects the front wheels as well and halts the engine.

[Quick☢420™]

Sounds kinda like the problems some people had with WRCGenerations,rofl Lets just pretend it all works fine though mkay? The community shredded WRCG on release and now this game has the same issues but they have painted themselves into a corner,sooooo funny.Damn I wish they stuck with the EGO engine....

[Dark Redslayer]

Originally posted by Bainrow ᴷⁱᶜᵏˢ:

Ok, so with some further testing, this time with an actual FWD vehicle, I can understand a few more points of what OP is saying: I would expect the vehicle to spin the front tires when the handbrake is engaged and even drag the locked wheels forward, specially when releasing clutch at high rpm..

I have no problem turning the car with handbrake only, and engaging handbrake while going over 80km/h will make the back end come around. Without even turning the wheels, I ended up close to 180 degrees.

If you're going slow, there's not enough momentum for the weight in the back to actually shift and do anything, and you end up dragging the back wheels with you instead. -But if there's enough momentum to understeer, there's usually enough momentum to slide out the back end. If you're already understeering, the handbrake is going to have less effect.

Don't really need a hand brake at higher speeds though, which is why the strange effects of low speed hand brake use are so pronounced in FWD cars,

It seems better in AWD and RWD because you can then use the throttle to power out. But in the FWD cars, its like the cars don't have enough power to drag the rear wheels.

And considering my first car was a 110hp FWD car, I can assure you that even with higher grip tires (toyo proxies) it was able to drag the rears once they were locked.

In this game, it does feel like the hand brake randomly effects the front brakes as well, and causes understeer at lower speeds in most of the cars I've tried, but its super inconsistent. Perhaps it is a bug of some sort. Because there are times where I pull the hand brake for only a split second and it whips the car around.

[Geth Android]

I rarely bother with the handbrake in this game anymore unless it's a decently powered 4WD or RWD car. They decided to make this game drive more like circuit racing. Their "Like Racing But Rally" slogan comes to mind here lmao. If you take circuit racing lines you'll find with the high grip you can just apex the tight corners faster than if you try force the handbrake.

[TeknoBug]

Originally posted by Geth Android:

I rarely bother with the handbrake in this game anymore unless it's a decently powered 4WD or RWD car. They decided to make this game drive more like circuit racing. Their "Like Racing But Rally" slogan comes to mind here lmao. If you take circuit racing lines you'll find with the high grip you can just apex the tight corners faster than if you try force the handbrake.

Rallycross in iRacing oversteers like crazy that you don't even need handbrake 99% of the time, only time I ever use handbrake in iRacing's RX is that little hairpin on Atlanta RX otherwise oversteering swings the car around, they're tuned that way on purpose. I can do the same for a lot of the cars in this game as well but some cars such as FWD ones are harder to swing around corners with, the VW Golf in H2 FWD category is glued to the road and is a lot of fun but tough to maneuver around hairpins. Only other time I use the handbrake so far is that tight (first) hairpin on Finland.

[Dark Redslayer]

Originally posted by Geth Android:

I rarely bother with the handbrake in this game anymore unless it's a decently powered 4WD or RWD car. They decided to make this game drive more like circuit racing. Their "Like Racing But Rally" slogan comes to mind here lmao. If you take circuit racing lines you'll find with the high grip you can just apex the tight corners faster than if you try force the handbrake.

To be fair, that's often true for real life lol. But the one time you'd actually benefit from hand brake turning, you won't because it sucks at low speed in this game lol.

[Dark Redslayer]

So after further testing, I think Ive figured out the main issue with the games physics.

In DR 2.0 there wasn't enough lateral grip, so they clearly upped it, but in turn, they upped ALL grip. Which makes all the cars feel like they have less power than they do, because they have too much Longitudinal grip now. With the excessive Longitudinal grip, you get bog down instead of power slides that should be possible.

I hope its something they can modify independently, though I have my doubts they will fix it in this iteration, which is sad but whatever. I worked around DR2.0s flaws, Ill adjust to this games as well.

[Tracker_168]

Originally posted by Dark Redslayer:

So after further testing, I think Ive figured out the main issue with the games physics.

In DR 2.0 there wasn't enough lateral grip, so they clearly upped it, but in turn, they upped ALL grip. Which makes all the cars feel like they have less power than they do, because they have too much Longitudinal grip now. With the excessive Longitudinal grip, you get bog down instead of power slides that should be possible.

I hope its something they can modify independently, though I have my doubts they will fix it in this iteration, which is sad but whatever. I worked around DR2.0s flaws, Ill adjust to this games as well.

If you dont want to bog down on tight hairpins, I suggest you do what Kalle does. If a 2021 WRC car needs this technique around tight hairpins, Im glad EA WRC requires it as well to not bog. Adds an extra technical skill to think about when driving the game.

Hint: you can see it at around 2:00 min, 3:20 min and 4:38 min in the video.

https://youtu.be/0U1f2tvySBQ?si=0S1tJWtk40u-s61S

[xixou2]

Handbrake works fine at my side (using the simlab [SLA164] Handbrake XB1-LOADCELL ) which is recognized by the game.

[Josephus]

Handbrake works perfectly for me, and the Fulvia and Golf GTI are two of my Go Tos.

Here's a tip, the handbrake locks the rears. FWD spins the front right or the fronts. The car will move a bit under throttle with the handbrake on as you drag the rears.

The car stops rotating when you break grip. What is happening is you are carrying too much weight into the lateral vector of the turn which breaks grip and understeer you go. Why this is happening is braking too late before applying handbrake and positive power past the apex and away.

[Dark Redslayer]

Originally posted by Tracker_168:

Originally posted by Dark Redslayer:

So after further testing, I think Ive figured out the main issue with the games physics.

In DR 2.0 there wasn't enough lateral grip, so they clearly upped it, but in turn, they upped ALL grip. Which makes all the cars feel like they have less power than they do, because they have too much Longitudinal grip now. With the excessive Longitudinal grip, you get bog down instead of power slides that should be possible.

I hope its something they can modify independently, though I have my doubts they will fix it in this iteration, which is sad but whatever. I worked around DR2.0s flaws, Ill adjust to this games as well.

If you dont want to bog down on tight hairpins, I suggest you do what Kalle does. If a 2021 WRC car needs this technique around tight hairpins, Im glad EA WRC requires it as well to not bog. Adds an extra technical skill to think about when driving the game.

Hint: you can see it at around 2:00 min, 3:20 min and 4:38 min in the video.

https://youtu.be/0U1f2tvySBQ?si=0S1tJWtk40u-s61S

I haven't tested the new wrc cars that much, and to he fair my knowledge on their handling isnt quite as extensive as some others.

But all the cars in this game Ive driven so far have nearly perfect lateral grip, but too much longitudal grip.

There are times where the hand brake will get you into the right angle but the car will then just bog down, which doesn't make any sense, because the wheels are all already sliding, so forward wheel spin should happen but doesn't.

At first I thought the cars were just down on power, but now I've realized its the grip levels are too high.

This is not as obvious on loose surfaces, but extremely obvious on dry asphalt.

On a side note, I've started to figure out ways around it, it just takes an unrealistic amount of input to get around a hairpin on asphalt.

Basically dump in at higher speed and abuse the higher grip levels to get around faster lol.

On dirt and snow the issue is far less obvious, and easier to work around.

[Tracker_168]

Originally posted by Dark Redslayer:

I haven't tested the new wrc cars that much, and to he fair my knowledge on their handling isnt quite as extensive as some others.

But all the cars in this game Ive driven so far have nearly perfect lateral grip, but too much longitudal grip.

There are times where the hand brake will get you into the right angle but the car will then just bog down, which doesn't make any sense, because the wheels are all already sliding, so forward wheel spin should happen but doesn't.

At first I thought the cars were just down on power, but now I've realized its the grip levels are too high.

This is not as obvious on loose surfaces, but extremely obvious on dry asphalt.

On a side note, I've started to figure out ways around it, it just takes an unrealistic amount of input to get around a hairpin on asphalt.

Basically dump in at higher speed and abuse the higher grip levels to get around faster lol.

On dirt and snow the issue is far less obvious, and easier to work around.

The method Kalle demonstrates in his video's can be used in all the cars (AWD, FWD and RWD) and probably is more helpful for the lower powered cars. Its my preference that the grip could be reduced by a little. Not much though, maybe a few percent only. Certainly not the unrealistic almost ice like surfaces of most other rally games. DR2 and Gymkhana videos have conditioned people to think you can just power out of any situation. I played DR2 again and this is very clear in its physics model.

But my point was that if one of the most modern rally cars in existence might bog or at least needs this handbrake technique to pull out of tight hairpins than its actually pretty accurate that the cars could bog down in the same situation in game.

The technique Im referring to is when you approach the hairpin, you clutch in around the turn when pulling the handbrake.

Someone will argue that for AWD cars, the function of clutching in is to prevent drivetrain shock when you lock the rear wheels. This can be true for older cars but most modern rally cars, have an automatic diff cut out when you engage the handbrake, so my conclusion is that Kalle is doing it be able to power out of the turns better.

You dont have to wait for the car to complete the rotation before applying power again, if you, catch it early, you can drift around the hairpin. Setting up the car to make the cars (AWD, RWD) to oversteer more easily under throttle will also help. Doing other weight transfer techniques like Scandi-flicks can help get the car rotated faster too. This is one of the highlights of this game for me. These more advanced techniques are actually useful. You dont just rely on artificially slidey physics and powering out with throttle to get around more technical corners. When you get it right, it actually feels really amazing as you are literally using all the car inputs in a rapid but specific sequence, in one corner (braking, steering, clutch, handbrake, shifting and throttle).

[Dark Redslayer]

Originally posted by Tracker_168:

Originally posted by Dark Redslayer:

I haven't tested the new wrc cars that much, and to he fair my knowledge on their handling isnt quite as extensive as some others.

But all the cars in this game Ive driven so far have nearly perfect lateral grip, but too much longitudal grip.

There are times where the hand brake will get you into the right angle but the car will then just bog down, which doesn't make any sense, because the wheels are all already sliding, so forward wheel spin should happen but doesn't.

At first I thought the cars were just down on power, but now I've realized its the grip levels are too high.

This is not as obvious on loose surfaces, but extremely obvious on dry asphalt.

On a side note, I've started to figure out ways around it, it just takes an unrealistic amount of input to get around a hairpin on asphalt.

Basically dump in at higher speed and abuse the higher grip levels to get around faster lol.

On dirt and snow the issue is far less obvious, and easier to work around.

The method Kalle demonstrates in his video's can be used in all the cars (AWD, FWD and RWD) and probably is more helpful for the lower powered cars. Its my preference that the grip could be reduced by a little. Not much though, maybe a few percent only. Certainly not the unrealistic almost ice like surfaces of most other rally games. DR2 and Gymkhana videos have conditioned people to think you can just power out of any situation. I played DR2 again and this is very clear in its physics model.

But my point was that if one of the most modern rally cars in existence might bog or at least needs this handbrake technique to pull out of tight hairpins than its actually pretty accurate that the cars could bog down in the same situation in game.

The technique Im referring to is when you approach the hairpin, you clutch in around the turn when pulling the handbrake.

Someone will argue that for AWD cars, the function of clutching in is to prevent drivetrain shock when you lock the rear wheels. This can be true for older cars but most modern rally cars, have an automatic diff cut out when you engage the handbrake, so my conclusion is that Kalle is doing it be able to power out of the turns better.

You dont have to wait for the car to complete the rotation before applying power again, if you, catch it early, you can drift around the hairpin. Setting up the car to make the cars (AWD, RWD) to oversteer more easily under throttle will also help. Doing other weight transfer techniques like Scandi-flicks can help get the car rotated faster too. This is one of the highlights of this game for me. These more advanced techniques are actually useful. You dont just rely on artificially slidey physics and powering out with throttle to get around more technical corners. When you get it right, it actually feels really amazing as you are literally using all the car inputs in a rapid but specific sequence, in one corner (braking, steering, clutch, handbrake, shifting and throttle).

The problem is, that you can have wheel spin and it will literally stop spinning and bog, and that just isn't likely in a fwd or rwd car that is spinning the tires at a high RPM.

I don't think lateral grip needs to be reduced, if it is maybe 1-2% its the longitudinal grip that is too high, a good 5-10% decrease would probably be perfect.

In the mean time, Dumping into a corner faster than you should and hand braking is an actually viable tactic due to the forward bite being too good. And you'll be able to get more speed out of the car than the clutch in method (which actually isn't going to help FWD too much)

[Atavachron]

Originally posted by Dark Redslayer:

Originally posted by Head_on_a_Stick:

I find the FWD cars rotate just fine with weight transfer and lots of throttle. I don't even bother flicking them for hairpins.

Typically yes, but its just annoying that the handbrake doesn't work properly. Its probably the only flaw with the games physics that genuinely annoys me.

I think it works just like my own car IRL !