One of the reasons Taash gets it bad from some

[Star Sage]

Is that her group is probably the least active of ANY in this game. None of their quests involve anything but maybe a write up, and Isabella, in order to keep her from contradicting YOUR version in DAII is someone who is generic. Not like generically something, just, she says platitudes and things ANYONE could say. Taash's mom could have been leader of the Lords of Fortune and it would have been the same thing.

The other group that acts in the same vein as them, the Mourn Watch, get HUGE amounts of content, and a large area to explore that informs you of what their doing, as well as a series of sidequests about putting down spirits, meaning I am officially a ghostbuster, I play a mage and I make lightning streams.

Anyway, they have content behind them, and even the less meaningful stuff still has something to ground it in this world. The Lords of Fortune have...basically nothing. The arena is bearbones, and considering this franchise's sister franchise of Mass Effect managed to turn ITS two arenas into some of the most fun content, it's a shame this one feels so bland, just tosses you against enemies, then done. Worse, it stops rewarding you with anything after a few rounds, but without telling you that.

Meanwhile, Taash's sidequests, whereas everyone else's ties into their group or race, hers is more just about herself. It results in her feeling isolated, small, and irrelevant at the end of the day.

Harding, I'm rediscovering the origin of the Dwarves, and bringing something glorious back into the world.

Neve, I'm saving the people of Dock Town from an evil witch, and learning what compromises I'm willing to make to do a good thing.

Bellara, I'm saving people...even if I have to do something terrible to do it...maybe.

Luc, I'm saving my city from people who SHOULD be helping me save it, and trying to keep a demon in check while I do it.

Dev, I'm bringing back an extinct race of beings, and trying to make sure they don't go down the same path again.

Emm, I'm trying to help my group maintain the balance between the living and the dead, in a world where that balance is ALWAYS out of whack, while also making life decisions for myself that are extreme.

Taash? I'm have it out with my mother over my gender identity issues.

To be fair, it's not a BAD plot, but it's also not got the same bite, and without her group to buoy her up in some way, she feels lesser than all of them. Doesn't help that she's the only one who directly has conflicts with others. The most the other pairings get up to is being too focused on their own stuff, but Taash actually says stuff just to get under their skin, and while not unrealistic, it makes me want her in my group even less. Like Viv or Sera from Inq, or...well anyone not named Merrill or Varric from II(Avaline's okay, but Act II's end sours her on me in that one).

[Sentient_Toaster]

Taash isn't the only one who has a direct conflict with others -- Davrin and Lucanis are on bad terms for a little while in the aftermath of one main quest.

But yeah, the Lords of Fortune don't seem especially involved, as they're presumably too concerned with treasure-hunting to be bothered with the world-ending threats (!). Probably the more important group relationship here is Taash's dislike for the Antaam.

[CrazyOdd]

Taash story line, could have been about women in the Qun/Antaam. It would have fit with the gender identity as well, given the Qun says only men fight, from memory. Meaning when you meet Taash, you would see a Qunari warrior, then slowly get revealed that not all it what it seems. Would also hit far more topics, then the current one. Then again, it would be a "repeat" of the story from DAI, with Blackbull's group, only with a proper Qunari, rather then someone living under it.

[Nathiri]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Taash isn't the only one who has a direct conflict with others -- Davrin and Lucanis are on bad terms for a little while in the aftermath of one main quest.

But yeah, the Lords of Fortune don't seem especially involved, as they're presumably too concerned with treasure-hunting to be bothered with the world-ending threats (!). Probably the more important group relationship here is Taash's dislike for the Antaam.

To be fair, Davrin's pretty snarky to Lucanis even before that event talking about potentially putting him down for being an abomination. Davrin's also in Taash's room at one point, laughing at how Shathann talks to them, and I guess I could take it as solidarity but the tone felt more like he was being provoking.

Emmrich has plenty of condescending dialogue arguing against other cultures using cremation as a means of dealing with their dead, most noticeably in a dialogue with Harding, but also referenced with Taash. I think a few companions also make comments pertaining to Manfred which indicate they are not fully on board with necromancy.

I'd also say that the tension, if one can call it that, when Bellara is asking Taash about the Lords deal with Elven artifacts and relics is due to Bellara's lack of knowledge about the Lords.

That seems to be a key point, conflict between the companions mainly stems from misunderstanding each other, and they all seem to get past it.

[Targonis]

Taash has no story other than talking like a real world teenager who is dealing with being trans in a fantasy setting. Seriously, the ENTIRE storyline with IT(they/them is PLURAL, not singular, no matter how the entire LGBT+ population has no problem with butchering the English language) is, "I'm trans and my mother doesn't understand that I'm not like other people". Don't get me wrong, I fully support the right of people to just be who and what they are, but the devs just couldn't figure out that HOW it is presented in the game is all just to include a trans person.

A far better approach would have been to make Taash just be Taash, let the character just have its sexual identity be what it is, and make it so people have to accept it, without talking about it and complaining about it. Don't like me, have her spew fire on anyone who doesn't like or accept Taash for being itself(not male or female). When your sexuality is your identity and not anything else, then yep, that's going to make anyone invisible. Make being yourself your identity and if other people don't like it, well, their loss if you like who and what you are. The same applies to EVERYONE, be the best version of yourself, and then your identity is someone who just happens to be LGBT+, not someone who is LGBT+ who also is whatever.

[Nathiri]

Originally posted by Targonis:

When your sexuality is your identity and not anything else, then yep, that's going to make anyone invisible.

Gender is not sexuality, though both are part of anyone's identity.

[Star Sage]

I will reiterate that I have no problem with their story in and of itself, it's that they're out of place HERE because their story is too small and personal for it to fit in with the overall cast.

Heck, to point this out, the Dragon King is stated to be the 'antagonist' of their story, the person they has to beat so they can be free to breath fire and kick butt. Rook, OUR avatar in this world, along with Taash themself only learns this person exists and their name in the same mission you take them down together.

Compare that to...well ANYONE else in this cast. Their antagonist is shown to us, built up, expanded upon, and the final confrontation happens at the end of a multipart quest chain.

But Taash's story doesn't fit that mold. It's fine to be different, but honestly...if you wanted their story to BE different, then go all the way. Drop the Dragon King and make it the mom doing something to remove the fire or the like, in order to keep the Ataam from wanting them. Boom, they're forcing their identity onto their offspring, She is choosing for her child what they should be. Works even better, and you can still include the Ataam as an antagonistic force, with no actual face given to them, since they already HAVE a face villain in another part of the game.

[[SiN]Rabbit]

To be fair to the Lords of Fortune, their goals and motivations are pretty shallow, so the content with them being very shallow as well makes sense.

[Nathiri]

Originally posted by Star Sage:

Heck, to point this out, the Dragon King is stated to be the 'antagonist' of their story, the person they has to beat so they can be free to breath fire and kick butt. Rook, OUR avatar in this world, along with Taash themself only learns this person exists and their name in the same mission you take them down together.

The Dragon King is introduced to the player In Varric's narration cutscene directly after recruiting Taash. Shathann didn't want the Antaam to know about the firebreathing, so she knew something. Even if Rook and Taash don't specifically know.

Same as with what's "hunting" Harding. And the lantern for Emmrich. And Zara's blood bath. A lot of things are told to the player, before Rook.

Edit: but yes, Zara is known as an antagonist directly but there's more to that story, which the player probably knows ahead of Rook and Luc :)

[Mewsha]

I think the biggest reason people do not like Taash is how immature they are. It's odd that an established dragon hunter would have this much of an identity crisis, and it just makes them feel like they're a teenager. The mumbling and contemporary dialogue that makes them sound like they're from our own world and not from Thedas just makes it even worse because it breaks immersion entirely in a series that is famous for how immersive it is.

There are people who genuinely hate Taash because they hate trans and non-binary people, but I think a lot of people just don't enjoy the writing of their character and how it fits in the world of Thedas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoctEBd20Zk

This is a great video critique on why this representation is bad and poorly written from a perspective that's not anti-woke.

I really wish they re-framed Taash's story to be more about their multicultural heritage and their relationship with Shathaan. Under the Qun everyone is assigned a role, and they're meant to perform it optimally, to the point where Qunari under the Qun don't automatically raise their own children. Shathaan was meant to be a scholar. That was her role under the Qun, but when she saw Taash could breathe fire, she knew what a horrible future Taash would have and they fled to Rivain.

Rivain's culture ever since DAO was characterized as a highly individualistic society that's more free thinking about a lot of things compared to the rest of Thedas. Zevran is our introduction to that part of Thedas, and Taash is someone who fully embraces Rivain's individualism more than Shathaan. They could have weaved Taash's identity into that narrative quite nicely, instead we have Taash shout they're non-binary and list a bunch of stereotypical and sometimes offensive reasons for why they're non-binary. It's very badly written.

Even when Shathaan tries to be somewhat understanding, way more understanding than someone from the background that Shathaan is from would likely be, Taash still lashes out at Shathaan and it's very awkward for our character because we can't calm Taash down and make them see reason. We can't disagree with Taash on anything, even though a lot of their actions are disagreeable to any well adjusted person.

[Quacksalber]

Isabella does contradict my DA2. She says something like Kirkwall taught her what friendship is, when in most of my DA2 playthroughs she does a runner (I find her useless in combat, so she's benched).

They should have left her out of the game, and imo it would have made more sense if the Crows and the Pirates had been portrayed as more chaotic neutral than attempting to represent them as somehow good aligned.

[[SiN]Rabbit]

Taash very clearly has spent their time living under their mother's control and having little chance to live and grow for themself until Rook comes along.

[Water Shaper John]

Taash is the worst designed character i encountered in 20 years of gaming, regardless of being woke or not. The reasons:
1. She is supposed to be dragon expert, so impress us with knowledge about them, and it goes like:
-she tells my character to sht up to not be heard by dragon while we were sneaking on the dragon, but 1 minute later she has loud conversation with my companion that was for sure heard by dragon - because logic.
-while we are sneaking my character without my permission, it's automatic, says something childish and stupid about dragons, like if they shoot spikes from their tail, like wtf bro, i know it myself that they don't do that, ofc. she corrects my character like some professor saying no. Like duh, dragons are not penguins. How is that a proof of her knowledge?
-the only time she says something looking like knowledge, she corrects her collegue from lords of fortune about spiecies of encountered dragon.
-When we fight the fire dragon from her quest, she says to me: "Duuh, this your first time fighting dragon". Meanwhile me after defeating: Razikale, 2 blighted dragons(i know it's mentioned, but her explanation makes no sense, the shapeless - dragon possesed by demon in Nevarra, and on my first character i was also after defeating the most powerful dragon in game - that wraith in crossroads - it should all be included.
2. While all other companions got really good dialogues, for some reason, Taash mostly looks like:
-Yeh.
-No.
-Don't tell me who i am.
-They were doing it(having sx).
-Sht up.
Etc. the list goes on.
While i keep defending this game on this forum since release i had to tell about this, it's just sad to watch, i would have nothing against liking Taash, but it looks like people who designed her didn't put a fraction of their heart and effort into her design.

[76561199802160085]

Originally posted by Star Sage:

she says platitudes and things ANYONE could say.

False, anyone could but don't have the guts to ever say even when they would want.

You seem be one more taking too seriously Taash personality.

It's fiction, 30% of Taash is just humor based on a headbutted half autistic very young character.

I was replaying, and in Taash first parts I was laughing loud and mostly felt from by chair. At first play I hadn't notice as well all the details nor had put full care, it was funny but not that much.

[Jack Fury]

Every other group has a shared goal. Often for the greater good. The lords are very individualstic treasure hunters.

But a lot of the hate is just the dishonest clipping and hate campaign

[76561199802160085]

Originally posted by Ezir:

Sten was right from the beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKSi_KZ6tck

For your understanding that's a very woke part.

It shows how Sten is dumb, hence it is supposed to be a half humor dialog, but it is half failed because the writing wasn't good enough and the challenge high.

And the dialog end is "we will see", and later Stern admit he was an idiot.