Mage is garbage compared to warrior, if not then explain me how play it proper

[76561199802160085]

It's not a mage vs warrior comparison, full play warrior level 50 can't compare with mage current level 12.

It's that at low level I feel mage is weird:
- With staff it's like fight in molasses, there's delay for anything. O love its power attack but the molasses is killing the fun.
- With orb and dagger, orb is very short range and no high damage to compensate, dagger is cool but it's like have a fragile paper warrior.

So how have a proper combat gameplay with mage?

[phadin]

I'm playing a mage... I think you really have to focus on weak point targeting, stagger/knockdown, and/or detonations. It's a bit rough in the early game since your starting companions are two mages and two rogues, so you have no warriors to help with detonations (an indicator i think the game designers intended the MC to be a warrior).

I went down into the fire tree to build to meteor first. I did grab the node branch in between fire and lightning to get the Ultimate and Healing when performing knockdown however, and started using a lightning orb to build a lot of stagger. The fire tree has the Detonate Sunder which will combo with the Sunder setup from Harding or Lucien. You can also spare a couple of points perhaps to grab the chain lightning spell so you can setup Overwhelm to combo with Harding or Lucien instead.

Lightning weapons and necrotic weapons tend to build a lot of stagger. Early game, darkspawn are common and they resist necrotic. Antaam are the ones that resist lightning, but outside of one or two sidequests you won't fight them much at all in the early game, so I'd stick to a lightning weapon for orb and then a frost staff. Despite being designed to focus on elemental damage, mage lacks much of anything to actually penetrate elemental damage resistances, so keep your options open in terms of what damage types you have available. and try your best to hit what they are weak against.

I've really built into the orb and dagger gameplay. I usually hit three times with the orb, then do a charged slash with the dagger. The range is actually not too bad. With the charged dagger attack, you don't have to get directly toe to toe with them, as it's range is about the same as the orb itself, and can still set off the arcane bomb. It also tends to knock them out of whatever they are doing and will punch through and temporarily stun enemies with shields or that guard your attacks. Do lots of dodges (double-tapping dodge will do a short distance teleport) when things get too close. When I have a safe long range perch, particularly against melee only enemies, I'll pick them off at long range with the staff. Use knockdown on staggered enemies whenevver avilable, and try to catch multiple enemies in a detonation with your partner rogue. I usually have the other companion's ability reserved for emergency healing.

[76561199802160085]

Originally posted by phadin:

I'm playing a mage... I think you really have to focus on weak point targeting,

STOP, too fast. Weak points? That purple damages, that's like 10 boss in game, that's during short times, even all champions never have any weak point... For me.

So can you elaborate a little why bother increase damages on weak points, how get much more often weak points.

Originally posted by phadin:

stagger/knockdown, and/or detonations. It's a bit rough in the early game since your starting companions are two mages and two rogues, so you have no warriors to help with detonations (an indicator i think the game designers intended the MC to be a warrior).

Detonations:
Rogue and mages can trigger a detonation with right spells each. It's not at all the point of my question, I think I know use spells, or you have a trick to constantly chain spells with low level mage.

Stagger/knockdown:
Huuu? How? LOL

I can unbalance a few enemies, but mage seems nerf on this compared to warrior. Perhaps that's what you mean with stagger, but it's weak with mage.

Knockdown? You mean when final attack in enabled? Tricks to speed it up with mage?

Originally posted by phadin:

I went down into the fire tree to build to meteor first.

Done already, after a respec.

Originally posted by phadin:

I did grab the node branch in between fire and lightning to get the Ultimate and Healing when performing knockdown however,

Ultimate means specialization, means level 30, my mage is level 12.

Second point, checked all nodes of Spellblade spec, failed find any healing.

Originally posted by phadin:

and started using a lightning orb to build a lot of stagger.

So use orb and lightning, to build stagger, orb is very close range, but I didn't tried that specifically, I'll try thank.

Originally posted by phadin:

Lightning weapons and necrotic weapons tend to build a lot of stagger. Early game, darkspawn are common and they resist necrotic. Antaam are the ones that resist lightning, but outside of one or two sidequests you won't fight them much at all in the early game, so I'd stick to a lightning weapon for orb and then a frost staff.

At replay, started with crossroad and Treviso, I ccertainly got more Antaam, or on par but Antaam tend give me more troubles overall, Right now use cold for staff, for the slow down, and electricity with the orb except that I never used it much, I'll try for the stagger thing.

Originally posted by phadin:

Despite being designed to focus on elemental damage, mage lacks much of anything to actually penetrate elemental damage resistances, so keep your options open in terms of what damage types you have available. and try your best to hit what they are weak against.

Already try do that for spells, and noticed the point.

Originally posted by phadin:

I've really built into the orb and dagger gameplay. I usually hit three times with the orb, then do a charged slash with the dagger.

Huu? We don't play the same game, I am already hit multiple time and sometimes killed if I try that.

Originally posted by phadin:

The range is actually not too bad.

Huu? Warrior 2H has mostly the same range, more or less. I exaggerate only a little bit.

Originally posted by phadin:

With the charged dagger attack, you don't have to get directly toe to toe with them, as it's range is about the same as the orb itself,

I'll try focus on that to see.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[zpc]

I've a level 12 mage right now as well. I stacked on all +mana / +mana regen items and skills I could so far and what I'm doing in fights is this: let Bellana tie as much enemies up into one place as possible, then cast firewall followed by a nuke-combo with the other companion.

Usually every enemy left is on his last legs - so it's only mop-up with any kind of damage (I like to use the charged staff for that). In the rare case there is still more resistance I use my second nuke (500 mana come in handy).

So far I'm faster killing enemies with a mage than with my warrior.

[phadin]

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant about weak point tareting... I don't know what purple targeting thing you're refering to. I mean their weak element. Mages are elemental damage specialists. You need to be keenly aware of which enemies have weakness and resistant to which elements, and target those.

[76561199802160085]

Originally posted by phadin:

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant about weak point tareting... I don't know what purple targeting thing you're refering to. I mean their weak element. Mages are elemental damage specialists. You need to be keenly aware of which enemies have weakness and resistant to which elements, and target those.

Ok weak points damages are a specific aspect of the game, or the name in English is different.

Hard to miss with dragons, it's bright purple parts that appear they allow do higher damages. But it's clearly a design left not making sense for character building skills and equipment, too rare cases. But ok for dragons and some bosses the mechanic itself makes sense.

Originally posted by zpc:

I've a level 12 mage right now as well. I stacked on all +mana / +mana regen items and skills I could so far and what I'm doing in fights is this: let Bellana tie as much enemies up into one place as possible, then cast firewall followed by a nuke-combo with the other companion.

Usually every enemy left is on his last legs - so it's only mop-up with any kind of damage (I like to use the charged staff for that). In the rare case there is still more resistance I use my second nuke (500 mana come in handy).

So far I'm faster killing enemies with a mage than with my warrior.

Looks efficient but it's only spells, and a bit repetitive, and what enemy HP setup? I tried lower it for mage to medium but it revealed be weird, put it back to max-1.

[derrien]

mage is pretty weak until around lvl 22, you get unlimited mana, which allows you to spam skills and then recharge (spellblade + blast efficiency node and channeled thoughts nodes, i got it at 22, probably doable earlier if you farm more solases towers).

somewhere around 30 you become an immortal, everything-killing machine and it stays like that until the very end. all you need for that are 2 items. maw of the black city and purple all-mother's corpse. ive been spamming 9999 dmg spells since around lvl 35, whenever you get the +75% dmg enchant.

for constant full healing: legendary twin buckle binding belt and legendary garb of kinship. not really needed, just some endgame stuff.

[76561199802160085]

Originally posted by derrien:

mage is pretty weak until around lvl 22, you get unlimited mana, which allows you to spam skills and then recharge (spellblade + blast efficiency node and channeled thoughts nodes, i got it at 22, probably doable earlier if you farm more solases towers).

Looks annoying.

Originally posted by derrien:

somewhere around 30 you become an immortal,

So mage is broken? Gee. I won't start play in god mode now, when I never ever did it in my whole life.

But many RPG players find combats fun when it's easy so boring, but it proves how good is their build so it's "fun". But that's not working for me.

[Ashtrails]

Mage can be utterly broken in many ways / builds.

If you just want to have a good time, I think understanding that your abilities give you I frames, when to pop a helpful rune and using your companions for easy heals helps a lot.

I haven't touched other classes yet, but on higher difficulty you need a bit more awareness when it's save to combo into a nice Arcane Bomb cascade and when to reposition.
But if that goes off, it really goes off, especially if you spec into stagger and takedowns and escalting buffs through gear, a higher manapool etc.

Like, how does warrior play? Are you just a weapons grade wood chipper out of the gate? surely you must've chosen certain gear and stuff to make it work, right?

The earliest levels feel kinda weak, but Mage ramps up fast, I felt like and has been great fun since basically level 20.

[Fullcaber]

hate that the mage staff feels clumsy as heck when hawken did it better wield his staff in dragon age 2
wish they had made the staff more blasty and melee hitting maybe? with part protectiles and blasting xD idk

[76561199802160085]

Originally posted by Ashtrails:

Like, how does warrior play? Are you just a weapons grade wood chipper out of the gate? surely you must've chosen certain gear and stuff to make it work, right?

The earliest levels feel kinda weak, but Mage ramps up fast, I felt like and has been great fun since basically level 20.

I can't say I tried all warriors possibilities, but the sword fighting feels much more coherent and fluid than for mage.

I'm starting have good fun with mage and using both orb+dagger and staff, but have the feeling, perhaps false, that from player skills issue or mage low level builds I try, it feels a bit too fragile for the game full of close combat.

And then mage feels more original than warrior that feels more classic and in lineage of some RPG with good sword fighting. But the amount of combo for warrior is something I never seen before or forgot.

Still on the fence to stop my mage play and change with rogue. But I don't want risk saturation even if I love my replay.

[Ashtrails]

Originally posted by Shiemend:

I'm starting have good fun with mage and using both orb+dagger and staff, but have the feeling, perhaps false, that from player skills issue or mage low level builds I try, it feels a bit too fragile for the game full of close combat.

And then mage feels more original than warrior that feels more classic and in lineage of some RPG with good sword fighting. But the amount of combo for warrior is something I never seen before or forgot.

Still on the fence to stop my mage play and change with rogue. But I don't want risk saturation even if I love my replay.

Oh, yeah, that is a real good point actually:
Orb&Blade loves mid-range. Straight up 5-foot melee feels very awkward.
The moment you get to throw you blade, things get wild and I rarely do regular slashes or even charged attacks, if I can avoid it.

Far as I'm concerned, the blade is for riposte attacks (if you skilled into that), or for weaving in -> detonate arcane bomb -> electro backflip or dodge the ♥♥♥♥ out again.

The flow discourages a clashing blades playstyle and more hit&run, unlike, for example Da:I's knight enchanter.

[76561199802160085]

I would naturally prefer the staff just because of its power attack, but its play in molasses aspect is difficult to manage. Moreover I still don't know what's that staff charged power attack.

Orb+dagger, yes short mid range, but yeah for some enemies I go close range too and still use both and use both with charged and not charged in short mid range.

I switch to staff for puzzling which can happen in combats, but also when its power attack is efficient, plus some cases of long range abuses before really start the combat.

Still in deep in learning many things, should be level 14/15 now.

[derrien]

Originally posted by Shiemend:

Originally posted by derrien:

mage is pretty weak until around lvl 22, you get unlimited mana, which allows you to spam skills and then recharge (spellblade + blast efficiency node and channeled thoughts nodes, i got it at 22, probably doable earlier if you farm more solases towers).

Looks annoying.

Originally posted by derrien:

somewhere around 30 you become an immortal,

So mage is broken? Gee. I won't start play in god mode now, when I never ever did it in my whole life.

But many RPG players find combats fun when it's easy so boring, but it proves how good is their build so it's "fun". But that's not working for me.

you dont have to do that. there are a lot of different builds available to mages.

the most fun way of playing is to use mainly orb and dagger and to use staff only for occassional "finisher" when the staff energy is fully charged. swap , sprint + heavy + jump + attack will unleash a rather hard-hitting wave. dagger and orb gives you a lot of mobility and you can unlock cool stuff (attack after double-jump), attack after perfect parry. in the early nodes. combine it with the bombs for additional damage.

if you dont like the mage, that's fine, there is a reason there are multiple classes, not every class is for everyone. i've been playing a tank-mage (knight-enchanter in DAI) for the whole searies, so this one is right up my valley.

[76561199802160085]

Originally posted by derrien:

you dont have to do that. there are a lot of different builds available to mages.

Right OP holes are easy to fix, just not use them.

Originally posted by derrien:

the most fun way of playing is to use mainly orb and dagger and to use staff only for occassional "finisher" when the staff energy is fully charged.

Staff charged? You mean 'finisher" fully charged?

I found good use cases for staff but yeah for now it's more often orb+dagger.

Originally posted by derrien:

swap , sprint + heavy + jump + attack will unleash a rather hard-hitting wave.

So you seem really mean staff fully charged. No required skill to enable that?

Complicate combo but the effect looks cool I'll try.

But you neef explin more the staff charge thing.

Originally posted by derrien:

dagger and orb gives you a lot of mobility and you can unlock cool stuff (attack after double-jump),

WTF? Double jump? Double tap jump like the double tap dodge?

Originally posted by derrien:

attack after perfect parry. in the early nodes. combine it with the bombs for additional damage.

Alas parry is out of my skills, I see bombs accumulate but for now don't know how exploit it.

Originally posted by derrien:

if you dont like the mage, that's fine, there is a reason there are multiple classes, not every class is for everyone. i've been playing a tank-mage (knight-enchanter in DAI) for the whole searies, so this one is right up my valley.

Sure, I already played a warrior and enjoyed. My wondering is for the replay.