If You Dislike This Game...

[DaisyRay]

I have an honest question for you!

As someone who overall enjoyed the game and gave it a 7-8/10 rating, I am curious to understand what they could have done differently? Preferably outside of it being "woke" or anything to do with LGBTQ+. We already have enough posts dedicated to that and personally that's not a conversation I'm interested in continuing.

So outside what was mentioned above, what could BioWare have done differently to make you enjoy this game more. A lot of the times, the genuine concerns and dislikes get buried under trollish antics.

Also, those who do like this game. I'd love to know what won you over.

So let's have a discussion!

-----------

I won't lie, I didn't read all of your comments. I wasn't really expecting this to get so many good replies. I appreciate that the majority of you came here with your actual concerns and criticisms. I've said time after time that I usually write off complaints if they are given with trollish behavior, so this has been a breath of fresh air. Based on what I have read, it seems that these are the main problems for the majority of you.

The Dislikes I Most Agree With:

1. The failure to carry over choices and important lessons from previous games. While I loved the lore they added in this game, I will agree that they should have added more. At first, my point was that they probably didn't have the writers to pull that off while also giving us a final wrap-up. However, while watching the playthroughs of the previous games, I've found a lot of things, choices, and characters that would have fit in well with this story. Dagna is one of them; I feel like she would have fit well in this world based on how DA:O and DA:I handled her. I won't give spoilers on how, but if you know, you know. Then there is the Well of Sorrows choice that could have played a part since the Inquisitor does make an appearance. These are just two of the choices that they could have added while still keeping their game the way they wrote it,

2. The world building and factions. This one I agree again, but my view might not be the same as yours. I haven't read any of the comics, nor do I read Codex in games, so it's possible that I'm just uneducated. But I don't recall ever hearing about the Mourn Watchers, the Lords of Fortune, or the Shadow Dragons. If they are indeed new, I feel like they could have been left out of the game, and instead we got more quests and time with the other factions. I don't like that the Dalish were turned into the Veil Jumpers, but for this specific game, it kind of makes sense. I just wish they would have made them feel more like Dalish elves, especially when dealing with outsiders. I would have loved to see more with the Antivan Crows since it's been an organization I've been curious about since Origins. They talk a lot about the in fighting, but we don't see too much of it. To someone unaware, the Antivan Crows might just seem like a small gang that only cares about protecting their city. I'm sure they do care, but there is so much more story to them.

I also wish they made each faction more personable to Rook. I hear Grey Wardens give you more bang for your buck, so I'm going to play as them in my third playthrough. But so far, picking a faction doesn't really do anything remarkable. A few throwaway lines, and that's about it. I think if they had fewer factions, they could really make it like Origins, where you got to actually see your time with that group and use it a lot throughout the game.

3. The characters are pretty much NPCs and not companions. While I personally really do like the companions, not Bellara, I can agree that there is not much to them. I do think they took more time on some companions than others. Darwin, Harding, and Emerich are my favorites because their stories are very powerful and meaningful. Taash's would be too, but I think they made her so unlikeable that most people write her off before they get the chance to see what I saw. The rest of the characters aren't that memorable, nor is their story. Bellara, I completely forgot she and her story existed; Lucanis's story lacked something; I'm not sure what, but it just didn't have a pull on me. When you look at previous companions like Allistair, Fenris, Cassandra, and even Leliana, who wasn't a main character in DA: I. They all felt real and memorable. I believe if they did things differently, they would have had more time to focus on refining each of these characters.

The romance portion is just lacking, but I've only romanced Lucanis so far. I plan to romance Darwin next to see if my opinion changes. But Lucanis's romance was a little boring for me. I forgot that I was even trying to romance him with the way he behaved. I feel like they put more effort into having the companions romance each other than Rook. Which is something I love, but it just felt lacking for Rook. I remember back when I played Origins and if you flirted enough, the companions would do cute little things even outside scenes. Like when you go to talk to them, Allistair would say, "My heart." or something. I think DA:2 had bad romances too, but this one was even worse. I'm still going to romance Emerich though; he's so adorable.

4. The fighting is not what you're used to. This is one I don't fully agree with; I don't think it's as bad as people say it is. None of the Dragon Age games had fighting that was really spectacular to me. They are all the same—a set of skills and powers that you use to take down your enemy. I do agree that I miss not being able to control our companions, but I personally like the fighting in this game more. It's easier and faster-paced. I found it enjoyable. That's just my personal opinion, though.

Also, the monsters aren't so different from the past monsters, with the exception of their physical appearance. I think they did a good job of bringing a great deal of monsters from all three games and putting them in here. The design choice is questionable, but I like that they acknowledge why they look the way they do in the game. I wish they had included more of the intelligent monsters like the Desire Demon and the Sloth Demon, but alas, they did not.

5. Speaking of designs, I know the character designs are another huge problem for many players. This one I agree with mildly. I feel like they spent so much time on Rook's character appearance (mostly) and some of the NPCs that they lacked on the companions a lot. This is most notable to me with Lucanis, who looks like he stepped directly out of a Telltale game. I still like how they all look, but I'll agree they didn't get the love they needed.

I won't tolerate any hate for the itty bitty chest community, btw. I was able to make a rook that was feminine, so I also won't acknowledge the "you can't make women" argument. I do, however, agree that they did the players a huge disservice by not allowing us to make any body type we want. So while I am pleased that they did something none of the previous games did, the options are still so limited. They took one step forward with the extensive CC, but two steps back by not making it inclusive of more body types.

6. The world of DA:V is not dark enough. This I agree with. I made two posts about this previously that I'll leave below because much of what I have to say on this is there. I'll summarize that I agree with you all. When looking back at the past games, they really lack having any well-written dark themes that could make an exceptional and emotional story. I feel like they were afraid to push those boundaries, which is odd for a DA game. DA are always the ones pushing game boundaries, so I wonder what held them back this time.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1845910/discussions/0/6400272499512233800

Finally, I will add that the most important part of what this game lacks is the RPG experience. So while I enjoyed the overall game despite everything I mentioned above, I was not playing an RPG game. I played an adventure game in the DA world that was enjoyable enough. They removed the major part of what people love about Bioware games. That's the ability to create your own story. I think if this element was there at least, people would have enjoyed it more. There has never been a DA game where you couldn't dismiss or kill the majority of your party members until now. I think that is a huge step back, and I hope they learn from this if they do make more DA games, which I hope they do.

I still give the game rating a solid 7/10 for me personally. If you want to know about what I do like, I'll add that too.

[DaisyRay]

Solas and his backstory won me over. I was enjoying the game mildly at the start, but as soon as I encountered part of his backstory, I instantly became 100% more interested. Then they continued to feed me with bits of interesting lore and more of Solas and by the time I got to Act 3, my rating of 7 went up to 8.

[U_Can't_Touch_This]

Publicado originalmente por Seekrt:

I consider they should never have tried to emulate ME game mechanics in this game. It does not fit at all IMO.

Characters' interactions with the main character, ability to address them when you want, ability to disagree, even strongly disagree, consequential dialogues and writing, lots of things.

Interactions with NPCs, ability to deny help or support, and so on. Give the impression that there are people living and interacting with the game world.

Holly triple post, use the edit button my good man.

[DaisyRay]

Publicado originalmente por Seekrt:

I consider they should never have tried to emulate ME game mechanics in this game. It does not fit at all IMO.

I get that. It was different for me at first, but then I ended up enjoying it more. I do miss not being able to control each of my characters, but I found this way easier. I'm also pleased that our companions don't die. It allows me to just focus on the fight, especially since some of them are really hard.

Publicado originalmente por Seekrt:

Characters' interactions with the main character, ability to address them when you want, ability to disagree, even strongly disagree, consequential dialogues and writing, lots of things.

I agree 100% with this. Nothing to add.

Publicado originalmente por Seekrt:

Interactions with NPCs, ability to deny help or support, and so on. Give the impression that there are people living and interacting with the game world.

Agreed again, nothing to add.

Publicado originalmente por Seekrt:

The environments are georgious.
Edit:
The characters' cartoony look just does not fit.

I don't think they look that cartoony. It looks a little like telltale games sometimes, but it's not that bad for me.

Thanks for your opinions!

[Mermidion]

Lets see:
-No Fortnite cartoony look.
-Make it more dark fantasy again,more bloody (no, just one city overcome by blight in the beginning doesnt count.)
-Ditch the silly redesigns of Darkspawn. and make Females like isabella look like in past games. (and actual Feminin) , also ditch the horrible Qunari redesign.
-in the vein above ,actual impactful body sliders in character creation.
-Giving Player actual options to disagree with there group members/NPC and that they can play in another way then just as a goody-to-shoes (like the renegade options in ME or past DA games)
-more meaningful player choices and have the past games choices have more impact on this one.
-Better writing, especially in dialogs, less Preachy and less dump down. Make certain companions aware of they hypocrasie or dont write it at all.
-More respect for past lore/games.
-Ability to Ditch a companion completly and still archieve the "good" ending.

I think this sums it up what they could have done better. thought if others think i forgot to mention something i would like to hear it.

[DaisyRay]

Publicado originalmente por BDK:

You finished the game in 4 days already?

No, I think it took me five or six days for my first playthrough. I'm on my second one now. Qunari Mage.

[DaisyRay]

Publicado originalmente por Mermidion:

Lets see:
-No Fortnite cartoony look.
-Make it more dark fantasy again,more bloody (no, just one city overcome by blight in the beginning doesnt count.)
-Ditch the silly redesigns of Darkspawn. and make Females like isabella look like in past games. (and actual Feminin) , also ditch the horrible Qunari redesign.
-in the vein above ,actual impactful body sliders in character creation.
-Giving Player actual options to disagree with there group members/NPC and that they can play in another way then just as a goody-to-shoes (like the renegade options in ME or past DA games)
-more meaningful player choices and have the past games choices have more impact on this one.
-Better writing, especially in dialogs, less Preachy and less dump down. Make certain companions aware of they hypocrasie or dont write it at all.
-More respect for past lore/games.
-Ability to Ditch a companion completly and still archieve the "good" ending.

I think this sums it up what they could have done better. thought if others think i forgot to mention something i would like to hear it.

- I think the looks aren't that bad, but I agree it could have been better.
- I agree.
- I agree, but I like that they explain it. Also the Qunari have looked different in every game. I'm not too bothered by that. Same with Isabella.
- I am glad we have body sliders at all, none of the previous games had them. I agree they should have had it where you can make any shape you want.
- I agree.
- I agree again.
- I agree, but I think there are some really good parts where the writing shines.
- I agree, but I do like the bits they added.
- Agreed!

[superslayer]

I'd have said better choices and consequences, with more branching paths in the narrative.

Alongside compelling and interesting dialogue and characters.

[Quacksalber]

I read an article in which they said they originally planned evil companions. Calpernia and Imshael from DAI, also that Taash and Lucanis were initially evil and a Saarebas was to be a companion. That gives me vibes that the original plan was to indeed make a game more like DAO - certainly one where you could be at least morally grey and pick and choose your companions like we could in the former games. I think Solas was also meant to be the antagonist and not the other 2? Not sure, but sounds more interesting tbh.

Also that there would be at least some carry over from previous games, proper romances, companions being more feisty in banter, a lot less companion quests where I just click stuff for them. no convos where I act like a teacher for 7 year old, lol.

I think the game suffered really badly from what's been going on at Bioware and that they were basically told to make it asap and not waste time on things not all players would see. I expect they just more or less followed the plot Gaider had left, stuffed it all into 1 game, and will either ditch the series or reboot it differently. I don't get why they spent money on weird gendered language in the translations which would also have been better spent on actual content. Then again, maybe they got AI to do it.

All in all, I think the game is good *given the circumstances*, but I would have preferred the devs were left to make the game they originally planned.

[Narnis]

Publicado originalmente por DaisyRay:

I have an honest question for you!

As someone who overall enjoyed the game and gave it a 7-8/10 rating, I am curious to understand what they could have done differently? Preferably outside of it being "woke" or anything to do with LGBTQ+. We already have enough posts dedicated to that and personally that's not a conversation I'm interested in continuing.

So outside what was mentioned above, what could BioWare have done differently to make you enjoy this game more. A lot of the times, the genuine concerns and dislikes get buried under trollish antics.

Also, those who do like this game. I'd love to know what won you over.

So let's have a discussion!

-Better loot
-no white energy walls that break exploration cause you cannot go there yet
-better writing overall
-some redesign are horrible
-darker tone because even when it gets dark it quickly fade away thanks to how the companions and such act
-actual npcs to talk with not just codex entries to read if you want to know more.
-Actual choices with actual different outcomes, even if they do not matter on the big scheme.
-Handling old characters better than just cameos or semi deus ex machinas/info dump.
-Handling previous game choices better.
-No post credit screene which is WoW Shadowlands Jailer level or awful writing with
the "haha it was us all along" as some extremely smart manipulative group

Many of these can be blinked over if it would be a new title, but it should be treated, and rated as a sequel to an RPG.

[Sgt. Flaw]

It's the overall tone....the outfits the cheery characters the apologetic dialog...couldn't do dragons Dogma 2 because of this too..I'm just sick of it...it's been plaguing games for a while now and it's getting old. Even BG 3 suffers from this and it's why I didn't grab it...Divinity 1 and 2 were great but it's getting old

Too cartoony...look back at DA:O..it was so dark it was hilarious...

[donder172]

Publicado originalmente por DaisyRay:

I have an honest question for you!

As someone who overall enjoyed the game and gave it a 7-8/10 rating, I am curious to understand what they could have done differently? Preferably outside of it being "woke" or anything to do with LGBTQ+. We already have enough posts dedicated to that and personally that's not a conversation I'm interested in continuing.

So outside what was mentioned above, what could BioWare have done differently to make you enjoy this game more. A lot of the times, the genuine concerns and dislikes get buried under trollish antics.

Also, those who do like this game. I'd love to know what won you over.

So let's have a discussion!

Haven't played it, but watched others play it, as well as reviews. Some of my biggest issues with the game is that it feels like a Dragon Age game in name only. It's an roleplaying game without the roleplay. Player choices have no meaning in the game. You can't not recruit companions. The game is not (easily) moddable. The character creator is too restrictive and some options downright immersion breaking.

And the writing and dialogue choices. I thought Bethesda had the worst dialogue system out there. Yet Bioware somehow one-up'ed Bethesda in that department with this game. It's worse than Fallout 4.

[Carlos Spicywiener]

Publicado originalmente por DaisyRay:

I have an honest question for you!

As someone who overall enjoyed the game and gave it a 7-8/10 rating, I am curious to understand what they could have done differently? Preferably outside of it being "woke" or anything to do with LGBTQ+. We already have enough posts dedicated to that and personally that's not a conversation I'm interested in continuing.

So outside what was mentioned above, what could BioWare have done differently to make you enjoy this game more. A lot of the times, the genuine concerns and dislikes get buried under trollish antics.

Also, those who do like this game. I'd love to know what won you over.

So let's have a discussion!

7-8 is about right. I liked every DA. They all told a different story in a unique way. To me, the characters are what make DA special. i have heard woke, and poor writing, and not dark enough but as I played it I found this all to be false. There are a lot of very hateful people in the world whose soul purpose seem to bring suffering in this world. Fictionally, I call em Demons. On earth, just Debbie Downers(look it up kids).
I love the art style and the world building the most. Hdr really pops. Combat is really fun and I always love getting into a challenging fight. The writing is Ok but I am ok with that because that is really hard to do. I also liked the way the loot system works. Its unique.

[ragnarok666]

I would have liked to get an actual RPG with dialog choices that matter and quests that can be solved in multiple ways with different outcomes.
Back in the days of Baldurs Gate 1/2 your actions could offend a party member to the point, that they turned hostile towards you; in Vailguard it only affects how quickly they want to ♥♥♥♥ you; if you dont commit every singly companion will be horny for the MC by the end, no matter what you did.
I also would have liked to get a grim dark fantasy with appropriate adult writing, instead we got a bunch of horny teens at the summer camp and need to play the camp counselor to make everybody get along.

[Mermidion]

Publicado originalmente por DaisyRay:

Publicado originalmente por Mermidion:

Lets see:
-No Fortnite cartoony look.
-Make it more dark fantasy again,more bloody (no, just one city overcome by blight in the beginning doesnt count.)
-Ditch the silly redesigns of Darkspawn. and make Females like isabella look like in past games. (and actual Feminin) , also ditch the horrible Qunari redesign.
-in the vein above ,actual impactful body sliders in character creation.
-Giving Player actual options to disagree with there group members/NPC and that they can play in another way then just as a goody-to-shoes (like the renegade options in ME or past DA games)
-more meaningful player choices and have the past games choices have more impact on this one.
-Better writing, especially in dialogs, less Preachy and less dump down. Make certain companions aware of they hypocrasie or dont write it at all.
-More respect for past lore/games.
-Ability to Ditch a companion completly and still archieve the "good" ending.

I think this sums it up what they could have done better. thought if others think i forgot to mention something i would like to hear it.

- I think the looks aren't that bad, but I agree it could have been better.
- I agree.
- I agree, but I like that they explain it. Also the Qunari have looked different in every game. I'm not too bothered by that. Same with Isabella.
- I am glad we have body sliders at all, none of the previous games had them. I agree they should have had it where you can make any shape you want.
- I agree.
- I agree again.
- I agree, but I think there are some really good parts where the writing shines.
- I agree, but I do like the bits they added.
- Agreed!

Welll since you are (mostly) in agreement with me, even with your fair counterpoints, you see what they could have done alot better. and this is why. no matter how good the gameplay may be (and just personally i prefer more tactical gameplay over action), that game would cap at 5/10 for me ,cause of the stuff i have listed.
its a game that will down the line in ten years either be remembered as the weakest/worse one of the series IF they continue to make more, or as the Sad and cheap end of it, if they dont.
like the last season of Game of thrones.

[StimJunky]

• Rip out the shallow AC:Valhalla button mashing and make combat more tactical and meaningful. We already had spell combos in Origins before just copying the primer/detonation from ME and throwing that in. Leave that for ME so the franchises can differentiate themselves.
  
• While we're at it give companions back their own skill trees rather than everyone using the same recycled combo/finisher just with different names.
  
• Increase the party size to 4 people like in Origins rather than having all the action focused on the main character just spamming attacks. It gets really old and repetitive with how damage spongy some enemies are at higher difficulties.
  
• Give us back a renegade system where we can disagree with companions and make the player make decisions that not everyone will necessarily agree with. The done of Veilgaurd is completely at odds with the rest of the game. There's no tension or acknowledgement of what you're up against or what's happening to the world around you. Everything is rainbows and sunshine at the Lighthouse.
  
• Go back to using visual metaphors for dealing with real world issues like prejudice and racial inequality (like fear of the outsider re: elves or mages) by weaving them into the game rather than sanctimonious lectures and preaching to the player about real world political issues in a hobby many people use as escapism from the highly charged political world they find themselves in.
  
• Hiring talent writers so your dialog doesn't come across as amateur fanfic. The banter in Origins was 100x better than what's present in DA:V
  
• Give us a narrative that we can be approached from different angles. BioWare used to be known for crafting narrative rich games with deep lore where one's choices mattered and affected different outcomes.

As I've been pondering this question I've come to realize I'm basically asking for a return of everything Origins gave us which is kind of pointless because EA has been slow walking the franchise away from that vision with each subsequent version of the game. Nor are they even capable, I believe, of replicating Origin's success as most of, if it not all, the old guard have either left or been forced out due to "corporate restricting" and that old-school BioWare magic is long gone.