My biggest issue with Veilguard is the apparent retconning

[Chalk]

I'm having a great time with the game, I enjoy the combat, the exploration, and the characters, but it sometimes feels like the devs wanted to make a generic fantasy game but had to make a Dragon Age game instead, so instead of respecting the established lore they instead decided to rewrite lore to fit their view.

A few examples I can think of:
1. Solas: In the Inquisition DLC, Solas' goal is to tear down the veil, bring back the age of Elves, and essentially commit mass genocide on all living things (with some implications that he wants to literally undo history and turn back time?), but in Veilguard it's washed down to "nooo I just wanted to make sure these evil gods' prisons were secure." It also feels like his role in Elven society changed; previously, the Dread Wolf was hated and feared, treated more akin to Satan as Loki, but in Veilguard it feels like they implied he was revered by the Elves and the Elves loves him and saw him as more of a silly little trickster than an evil being.
2. Tevinter's Culture: In the previous game it was made pretty clear that the Venatori was a powerful society within Tevinter with many influential members and wide public support, but in Veilguard everyone seems to hate the "cultists". Slavery, blood magic, and racism is also a massive issue in previous games with most Tevinter citizens seemingly supporting it, but again in Veilguard they seemingly changed this and made Minrathous a generic fantasy city.
3. The Creators/Elven gods: In previous games, the Elves loved and revered their gods, considered them benevolent and caring, and Dalish society seemed to revolve heavily around the worship of them. In Veilguard, the Elves go "Yeah we always knew they were evil, remember when we hated them? Yeah we know they're not real gods and just powerful mages, they're not important to us and we actually all support the Dread Wolf instead of them"

There are more examples, but these were just some of the major ones that really rub me the wrong way. While it does feel like a Dragon Age game with much of the tone being the same as previous games, I think a lot of the issues stem from changing the game from "Dragon Age: Dreadwolf" to "Dragon Age: The Veilguard" and shifting the focus from stopping and hunting Solas to, for some reason, being about ancient Elven Gods instead.

That being said, there are a lot of new aspects of the lore I really like, and the way they tie it into existing lore makes you go "Whoa!" because it recontextualises a lot of things (e.g. the Darkspawn and the Blight). It really feels like the game had two different writing teams, one that loved and respected the existing world and one that changed anything that didn't fit their new story. It's a bit jarring. Overall, I'd say it's a fine addition to the series, but the retconning REALLY takes me out of it and upsets me.

PS: I'm not interested in any mouth-breathing right wingers crying like toddlers over the "woke" agenda. I do not agree with you, your opinions are based in hate, and I won't be engaging in any idiotic discussions about it.

[TwinCats]

Another gaffe with red lyrium. We were taught throughout the Inquisition how dangerous it is, and we saw the consequences of contact with it. Even dwarves worked with it in shifts and in protective clothing. And here Neve carries a piece of the red lyrium relic with her without any protection.

[Chalk]

Originally posted by TwinCats:

Another gaffe with red lyrium. We were taught throughout the Inquisition how dangerous it is, and we saw the consequences of contact with it. Even dwarves worked with it in shifts and in protective clothing. And here Neve carries a piece of the red lyrium relic with her without any protection.

Yeah that was a thing I noticed too, it really feels like the developers used red lyrium in places where normal lyrium would've made more sense

[Sassy Robot]

1. Why do you believe anything Solas says?

2. The Venatori are powerful. They successfully coup the entire city if you do not save Minrathous from the dragon attack. This signals widespread support within Tevinter as you said. As for Dock Town, it is the slums basically. Do you think people in the slums support the people who oppress them? Do I wish we could have seen the whole of Minrathous and explored the truly vile aspects of the city where slavers and the wealthy and connected lived? Yeah, I do, but we don't get to. That doesn't mean it's a retcon.

3. "The elves" don't say anything, the Veil Jumpers do. A relatively recent group of scholars, explorers, and adventurers who have left clan life and opened their ranks up to all races in order to more deeply delve into Dalish history within Arlathan Forest.

[Chalk]

Originally posted by Sassy Robot:

1. Why do you believe anything Solas says?

2. The Venatori are powerful. They successfully coup the entire city if you do not save Minrathous from the dragon attack. This signals widespread support within Tevinter as you said. As for Dock Town, it is the slums basically. Do you think people in the slums support the people who oppress them? Do I wish we could have seen the whole of Minrathous and explored the truly vile aspects of the city where slavers and the wealthy and connected lived? Yeah, I do, but we don't get to. That doesn't mean it's a retcon.

3. "The elves" don't say anything, the Veil Jumpers do. A relatively recent group of scholars, explorers, and adventurers who have left clan life and opened their ranks up to all races in order to more deeply delve into Dalish history within Arlathan Forest.

I get your response to each of these, and while they could make sense in-world, it feels like it's just too many mental gymnastics to get there.

Another thing I could point out is how Solas was supposed to have an army of agents embedded in numerous aspects of society, and in Trespasser there was a setup of Elves disappearing/migrating somewhere with an obvious implication that they're forming a rebellion/army to support Solas - but this was just abandoned altogether in Veilguard.

I'll say again that I feel like they completely abandoned the original vision for the sequel in favour of the current story.

That being said I do concede to your third point, in this case it does make perfect sense why they had different opinions than other Elves. However I feel like there are still quite a few things I've noticed that felt like they were at the very least soft retcons.

Also, regarding "Do you think people in the slums support the people who oppress them?"... Well, I could simply gesture wildly towards global (especially American) politics

[Le NO_OB]

Retcon as apparent as the push up gameplay 😂

[TheOptimator]

Before I begin, I am enjoying Veilguard a lot. I enjoyed the first three DA games as well.

Likewise, I enjoyed ME Andromeda a lot. I also enjoyed the first three ME games as well.

But, as the original poster said, the game seems like it would have benefit more from being it's own fantasy setting instead of a DA game. Bingo! I Felt this way about ME Andromeda as well; both Veilguard and Andromeda are fun games on their own merits, but compared to the excellence of their predecessors (made by what we might consider the "old Bioware") they seem to pale a bit (a bit!) in comparison.

This is a pretty minor criticism, I hope people don't think I am blasting either game. I think Veilguard is great and arguably a return to form for Bioware. I just think it would have been better off as a new franchise/IP than a Dragon Age game. Or maybe make it a prequel instead of a few short years after the other games.

With all that said, I am really enjoying the lore and exploration aspects, the various factions and character. Retcon or not, it's a fun dive into Thedas.

[Chalk]

Originally posted by TheOptimator:

Before I begin, I am enjoying Veilguard a lot. I enjoyed the first three DA games as well.

Likewise, I enjoyed ME Andromeda a lot. I also enjoyed the first three ME games as well.

But, as the original poster said, the game seems like it would have benefit more from being it's own fantasy setting instead of a DA game. Bingo! I Felt this way about ME Andromeda as well; both Veilguard and Andromeda are fun games on their own merits, but compared to the excellence of their predecessors (made by what we might consider the "old Bioware") they seem to pale a bit (a bit!) in comparison.

This is a pretty minor criticism, I hope people don't think I am blasting either game. I think Veilguard is great and arguably a return to form for Bioware. I just think it would have been better off as a new franchise/IP than a Dragon Age game. Or maybe make it a prequel instead of a few short years after the other games.

With all that said, I am really enjoying the lore and exploration aspects, the various factions and character. Retcon or not, it's a fun dive into Thedas.

These are my feelings as well. As fun as it is, the lore-side is dragging it down and preventing it from being a better game than it already is

[Floymin]

Did you even play Inquisition?

1. City elves, being outsiders to their own culture, already knew their "gods" were tyrants.
2. Dorian frequently implied how the Tevinter Emperium acted like cultists instead of an actual government. There were even stories in Inquisition where the PC finds out that the TI were cruel to their own people.
Aside from those, consider that governments always try to project an image that gets shattered the moment someone steps onto their land.

[Floymin]

Originally posted by Chalk:

Originally posted by TheOptimator:

Before I begin, I am enjoying Veilguard a lot. I enjoyed the first three DA games as well.

Likewise, I enjoyed ME Andromeda a lot. I also enjoyed the first three ME games as well.

But, as the original poster said, the game seems like it would have benefit more from being it's own fantasy setting instead of a DA game. Bingo! I Felt this way about ME Andromeda as well; both Veilguard and Andromeda are fun games on their own merits, but compared to the excellence of their predecessors (made by what we might consider the "old Bioware") they seem to pale a bit (a bit!) in comparison.

This is a pretty minor criticism, I hope people don't think I am blasting either game. I think Veilguard is great and arguably a return to form for Bioware. I just think it would have been better off as a new franchise/IP than a Dragon Age game. Or maybe make it a prequel instead of a few short years after the other games.

With all that said, I am really enjoying the lore and exploration aspects, the various factions and character. Retcon or not, it's a fun dive into Thedas.

These are my feelings as well. As fun as it is, the lore-side is dragging it down and preventing it from being a better game than it already is

That must mean you enjoy narrow maps and linear quests.

[Chalk]

Originally posted by Floymin:

Originally posted by Chalk:

These are my feelings as well. As fun as it is, the lore-side is dragging it down and preventing it from being a better game than it already is

That must mean you enjoy narrow maps and linear quests.

So because I think the lore isn't in line with previous entries of Dragon Age, it must mean I don't like lore? What are you even talking about