Too controversial for Reddit: The Grey Warden unappreciation thread (prior game spoilers)

[Jusenkyo7]

Tried positing this on Reddit, and the mods shot it down. The fix is in!

---

So I know the fandom idolizes Grey Wardens, since our introduction to the Dragon Age universe was as one of them. But other than hearing about how great they were throughout history (and we know all too well that Thedosian history is often misremembered or twisted for political ends), all we've seen from them are oopsies.

In DA:O they did jack squat. Our HoF, with less than 24h of Wardening experience, rallied an entirely non-warden army and slapped a blight down in less than a year (beating the Grey Warden's best time by 12 years). You were assisted by, at most, two other Grey Wardens. One (Alistair) who had maybe one year of Wardening experience (and who immediately rolls over and lets you lead), and one (Loghain) who became a Warden after you did.

In DA2 they secretly trapped Corypheus in a prison he would eventually get out of (and later reinforced it with blood magic that could definitely be unraveled), rather than finding a non-warden force to kill him for good. They did possibly save Bethany, which counts as a small good deed (but if they saved Carver instead, that actually counts against them).

In DA:I they started hearing the calling, did not question it for a second, and immediately turned to sacrificing each other and blood magic to summon demons. Inky had to save all their dum-dum Warden butts, as well as saving the world from the Wardens.

Kinda makes me think it's probably a good thing the other Ferelden Wardens died at Ostagar, so they couldn't do something dumb to make your life harder in DA:O.

Also, 100% we'll have to bail these perennial bumbling losers out in Veilguard.

[Blaizeplays]

Hey, I actually like Carver. Granted I purposefully push him to the templars where he ends up with a very interesting arc. As for the Wardens I think they're more than due for a change in leadership at the very least. Not the brightest in charge with them. You also forgot The Last Flight where they killed their greatest allies out of sheer hubris.

[Jusenkyo7]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blaizeplays:

You also forgot The Last Flight where they killed their greatest allies out of sheer hubris.

Ha! I never read that, so I didn't realize their record of blunders goes back even further. The Keystone Kops of Thedas.

[Blaizeplays]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Jusenkyo7:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blaizeplays:

You also forgot The Last Flight where they killed their greatest allies out of sheer hubris.

Ha! I never read that, so I didn't realize their record of blunders goes back even further. The Keystone Kops of Thedas.

Yeah, they wiped out the griffins. Caused them to get a very infectious and contagious form of the blight. Whole species gone to pure hubris.

[Omen3608]

Hey, what about Riordan? He trimmed the Archdemons wings to allow the other Wardens access.

[Cutlass Jack]

You also forgot to mention that the Terrorist who blew up a church in DA2 and started the whole Mage-Templar war was a Warden.

[Jusenkyo7]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Omen3608:

Hey, what about Riordan? He trimmed the Archdemons wings to allow the other Wardens access.

Totally forgot he existed. But since you mention it: Oh good, he died to make a couple wing holes. Something any decent archer could have done and lived to tell the tale.

[Omen3608]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Jusenkyo7:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Omen3608:

Hey, what about Riordan? He trimmed the Archdemons wings to allow the other Wardens access.

Totally forgot he existed. But since you mention it: Oh good, he died to make a couple wing holes. Something any decent archer could have done and lived to tell the tale.

With that addition I'm totally happy!

[Blaizeplays]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Liquidized Soap:

Stroud seems like a nice guy.

And had to actively work against his fellow Wardens so they wouldn't do something to stupid.

[Blaizeplays]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Liquidized Soap:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blaizeplays:

And had to actively work against his fellow Wardens so they wouldn't do something to stupid.

This guy totally seems trustworthy. But no one wants to trust Stroud ;_;
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3326834325

Another point against the Wardens

[Jusenkyo7]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blaizeplays:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Liquidized Soap:

This guy totally seems trustworthy. But no one wants to trust Stroud ;_;
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3326834325

Another point against the Wardens

Really "Taint" sums it up perfectly.

[Blaizeplays]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Liquidized Soap:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blaizeplays:

Another point against the Wardens

How come Templars and Wardens get Mind Controlled to be Evil but the Mages just seems like they agree to being Evil?

Because the setting is trying to be nuanced. As you pointed out there are good Grey Wardens, it's the organization that's questionable. The whiping out of the Griffins started as an attempt to save a griffins life until the higher ups realized a tainted Griffin would fight through things that would kill a normal one and were stronger to boot. This in how DA typically deals with organizations. We also have good mages like Wynne or in all honesty Merrill.

[Cutlass Jack]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Liquidized Soap:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blaizeplays:

Because the setting is trying to be nuanced. As you pointed out there are good Grey Wardens, it's the organization that's questionable. The whiping out of the Griffins started as an attempt to save a griffins life until the higher ups realized a tainted Griffin would fight through things that would kill a normal one and were stronger to boot. This in how DA typically deals with organizations. We also have good mages like Wynne or in all honesty Merrill.

No I mean like Mages as in the Mages that you can side with in Inquisition like the organization. Like the Templars are only evil because they got fed Bad koolaid Juice. Meredith is only evil because the Red Crystalized Koolaid is giving her mold. But the Rebel Mages just straight up side a Dark Spawn Corypheus just so that they can have Tevinter Citizenship.

Well the mages were conned into it too thanks to Time magic making it seem like Tevinter rescued them. Both sides make some pretty stupid decisions aside from a few smarter ones.

[Blaizeplays]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Liquidized Soap:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blaizeplays:

Because the setting is trying to be nuanced. As you pointed out there are good Grey Wardens, it's the organization that's questionable. The whiping out of the Griffins started as an attempt to save a griffins life until the higher ups realized a tainted Griffin would fight through things that would kill a normal one and were stronger to boot. This in how DA typically deals with organizations. We also have good mages like Wynne or in all honesty Merrill.

No I mean like Mages as in the Mages that you can side with in Inquisition like the organization. Like the Templars are only evil because they got fed Bad koolaid Juice. Meredith is only evil because the Red Crystalized Koolaid is giving her mold. But the Rebel Mages just straight up side a Dark Spawn Corypheus just so that they can have Tevinter Citizenship.

First off Meredith was an extremist even before she got her hands on the red Lyrium it just made her more unstable and less able to hide it. Second you're over simplifying the Rebel Mages. They were pinned down in Redcliff with rogue templars breathing down their necks. If they left the village without suitable precautions they were killed. Then Alexius shows up saying all the right things and promising he can get them to safety. Remember he was using time travel and likely had to try multiple times to get the outcome we see in the game.

[Blaizeplays]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Liquidized Soap:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Blaizeplays:

First off Meredith was an extremist even before she got her hands on the red Lyrium it just made her more unstable and less able to hide it. Second you're over simplifying the Rebel Mages. They were pinned down in Redcliff with rogue templars breathing down their necks. If they left the village without suitable precautions they were killed. Then Alexius shows up saying all the right things and promising he can get them to safety. Remember he was using time travel and likely had to try multiple times to get the outcome we see in the game.

But why couldn't Inquisitor just go to both places? Cullen is doing nothing if you go to the Mages. So he could send people to the Templars. You can only take like 3 allies with you anyways so just use the other people you didn't use to go to them.

If I see a guy booping out Demons from the fade in a Church I'd probably think he's evil. But Time Travel doesn't change your values especially when he didn't travel very far. And if he can just do time travel why doesn't he just time travel when Inquisitor is coming at him and he can just try again?

The whole part with Connor blowing up just seems rushed and nonsensical. Like siding with the Templars makes more sense Story wise. You go in there, you stop the guy from feeding them juice and they join you.

But the mages has time travel which I don't even understand why Cory keeps your friends alive? You'd think he'd just have Alexius to kill them off? Maybe Bioware didn't want it to be like the Demo they showed off where they killed Sera? But if he just killed them then you'd basically have no chance at winning. So why doesn't he just time travel to do that?

Okay, then side with the templars. I personally get what's going on with the mages and they aren't evil, just desperate. Also don't forget Alexius tried time traveling and it didn't work for him against the Inquisitor. As for the companions given they aren't statues yet I'm guessing they initially got away.

[Archnemesis]

Well, you all make good points for and against the Grey Wardens, but they do help out in Blights and they did literally swing the very huge losses in the past to the first Blights back. However, like any organization given vasts amounts of power, those who are in the Grey Wardens only have one objective and that is ending the Blight. And they do anything and everything to end it including Blood Magic.

It isn't just the Wardens that have fallen prey to power hungry leaders of their order. All of the kingdoms and organizations of any prominence have great deals of corruption within their ranks. Solas even says this about the Inquisition when he had his agents infiltrate that found out the Qun agents had done the same. It is inevitable when powerful agents of political entities are at play.

That said, I generally support the Grey Wardens for the good Wardens like Alisitair, Stroud, and Bethany/Carver.

And yes, Carver is kind of a jerk at the start, but grows up if allowed to live as either a Templar or Grey Warden. I still like Bethany the best. :p